<p>By the way, we also tried to interest D in Smith or Mt. Holyoke or Bryn Mawr. We thought it was a fantastic idea. We went up to Northampton and she refused to tour Smith (she saw too many women with piercings and other far-out accoutrements and decided it wasn’t for her) and grudgingly attended the Holyoke tour. Afterwards she said that it seemed like a very nice school, but no, she would not go along with single-sex education, which in her mind is like segregation. We had to give up.</p>
<p>The male/female acceptance ratio is a bit discouraging. But as you pointed out it is unavoidable. If the ratio gets whacked, then no one wants to attend the school, male or female. My daughter did apply and was accepted to Wellesley, and my wife and daughter who visited the school were blown away by the architecture, and feel of the campus. She is accepted also to Whitman, and Lewis and Clark… both closer to home(Alaska). We are encouraging her to think hard about Wellesley, as I think it would be a good education. Her friend at school was waitlisted at Lewis and Clark, and accepted at Williams, and her father would like her to go to a west coast school. My daughter unfortunately the opposite, accepted to Lewis and Clark, and waitlisted at Williams. She is also waitlisted at Middlebury, and Bowdoin. We remain hopeful she can get off one of these three waitists. Thankfully there are these good all girl schools to pick up some of these qualified, hard working young ladies!</p>
<p>As I said a few times. I’m right there with lisares, 20/20 is hindsight I wish I had been more aggressive /savvy about some things. and now I have regret about some choices. But if she ultimately ends up happy it will be ok. I’m just going to do it differnetly the second time around. This will be harder for me than her because I feel somehow like I failed her.</p>
<p>Sigh, mine were that way with some schools too. Just no way to open their minds. And they like to say we are narrow minded.</p>
<p>@Waitlisthero, just take a look at where some of top women’s college alumnae go to grad school. They are as impressive as any of the other elite schools. Your daughter may want to take a look at those figures if she doesn’t get off the waitlist at any of her top choices.</p>
<p>I think it is inappropriate for the parent to be the “driver of the car,” and that kind of parental involvement leaves the kid unprepared for college life. Once 18, colleges won’t even talk to parents, nor will doctors or any other professionals.</p>
<p>For the parent, it is helpful discipline and helpful in future boundary-setting to step back a bit in this process.</p>
<p>The intensity of emotion (including bitterness against others who did “get in”) demonstrated by the OP is a result of over-involvement, not a result of appropriate parental concern. Working on detachment would be a good idea.</p>
<p>Your child may be so dependent on your involvement at this point, that withdrawing a little may actually be difficult, but start working on it in measured doses, both for your child’s sake and for your own.</p>
<p>p.s. My bright son was showing no interest in schools in the summer between junior and senior year. When I suggested college visits, he responded as if I was a nag. I told him, in a quite friendly voice, that if he did not want to go, he could work, and that would be fine with me. I also told him that I would be available to drive him anywhere, but he would have to do the research and scheduling. Then I went out. When I came back, he had made a list of college visits, color coded, and from then on it was him in the driver’s seat. If a kid can’t do that work, I don’t think they are ready to leave home.</p>
<p>Compmom, I don’t agree. I know many, many successful graduates who would not have gone to college when they did if parents did not “drive the car”.</p>
<p>It depends on the kid and temperment. I am not one of those aggressive types. But if I don’t get the ins and outs how is a kid going to know.? in this case I let the kid drive the car. She MARGINALLY missed the boat . I feel bad because I don’t like the outcome. I am happy for everyone believe me. But at he end of this long process I wish there was more joy .</p>
<p>downtoearth, I can closely relate to your feelings. Last year this time, despite my best efforts, I was sure I failed my daughter. It is a grim, raw process that leaves caring parents smarting, sometimes longer than their children. We are older and feel we should know more and do better. I’m sorry you are feeling so discouraged. Don’t give up hope! As dark as today may seem, there will still be joy.</p>
<p>You probably will do things differently next time because of all you learned. That’s wonderful growth! I know I will too, especially because my next child is nothing like the first.</p>
<p>The very best of luck to you and your daughter.</p>
<p>Compmom, I think in some cases the student can’t be in the drivers seat because there is insufficient information flowing from GC. I know in our case the GC’s are useless so I helped by doing a lot of initial research for my D. After that it was up to her. She was just telling me yesterday that there are some students at her school who wished they had followed thru with applications to colleges but didn’t do so because of inadequate counseling. I think the parent can play a very useful role in that case.</p>
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<p>Very wise statement!</p>
<p>Oh she is looking at it, and she is also looking at the network of Wellesley grads. That degree could open quite a few doors. Unfortunately Wellesley financial aid was not that great… we could swing it, but she would have to take on quite a bit of debt. University of Vermont has more merit based aid, and that school we could more afford. My daughter’s spirits are improving more importantly, and she is back on track of working hard toward her goals.</p>
<p>sharonohio, I competely agree and did not mean to be misleading. Our kids had a GC who didn’t even use computers, and who referred every kid to either a state college or his own alma mater, which would not fit many of the kids.</p>
<p>If you want to use the car metaphor, we parents can help look at cars, but the kid should drive. That’s weak. I’;; try again. With all 3 of my kids, I certainly helped with the early stages of looking into colleges and coming up with a list if the son or daughter wanted or asked for the help.</p>
<p>But after that, it was all in their court.</p>
<p>My youngest doesn’t want to go at all. There is a pile of info catalogs etc. in her room, but she is a performing artist and is going to pursue that directly out of high school for awhile. I guess you could say she chose a bicycle rather than a car.</p>
<p>The thing is, once they are on campus, as I said, noone will even talk with parents. The kids really need to advocate for themselves. One of mine has some medical issues and it has been frustrating: as someone said in a different context, I have not been happy with the outcome w/that, but there was not much I could do other than help guide the initial set-up of provisions for her.</p>
<p>Parents need to be prepared for this new state of affairs, in which they are so much less involved, and one of the best times to do that is during the application process, where the kid really gets the idea, on a visceral level, that he or she is responsible for these choices.</p>
<p>There are exceptions, and through out the college years, as in the senior year of high school, there are times when we need to insist on intervening, if, for instance, safety is at stake. And there are differences in personality too- I have 3 and know this very well!</p>
<p>But when a parent writes that she was in the “driver’s seat,” alarm bells go off, on behalf of the parent as well as the kid. Put that together with some of her posts, which are inappropriate in their emotional tone, and I would still suggest she take a look at what she is doing.</p>
<p>With my D, I started the car but then she got into the driver’s seat and drove. With my son, he was in the driver’s seat but I was definitely a back-seat driver. Some kids mature a little later than others. I have no doubt that once he gets to college he will be perfectly capable of doing what he needs to do.</p>
<p>Compmom- maybe your performing artist D chose a jet instead of a car. Time will tell!</p>
<p>Compmom, you make a lot of unwarranted assumptions. I’m sorry your D had medical issues and many obstacles to overcome. No, I do not wish my D had the same so she could get into Harvard, as your did D. How laughable that you suggest that, and that I am jealous because your D is at Harvard! That is beyond absurd. We are disappointed that D didn’t get into a few schools she wanted to attend because they felt right to her (and were suggested by her GC as good for her) , not because they were Harvard. She had no interest in Harvard. My H went to Harvard and spent 4 not very happy years there. We are not infected by the Harvard mystique. But I suspect you want me to feel that way, because that makes you feel good.</p>
<p>In fact, I just want my D to find a school that’s right for her, and it’s hard to watch her going through disappointment and pain and feelings of failure at the end of a process that most would agree is somewhat arbitrary. What is so contemptible about that? </p>
<p>Most of the parents who have commented here seem to empathize with that feeling. You seem to assume I am one of those “Ivy or bust,” unsophisticated types who resent the kids who triumphed over my kid to “make Harvard” or wherever. That was never the subject of this thread. It was the feelings you go through as a parent when your child undergoes a big disappointment after a process that is much more intense and ego-battering than it should be. And yes, part of the pain involves the fact that friends are getting something she wanted. Again I ask, what deserves your scorn about feelings that I would submit EVERYONE has in such a situation?</p>
<p>Lisares –</p>
<p>Your attack on Compmom is ugly and uncalled for. Your suggesting that she has ever so much as hinted that you wish your D had medical issues that would have gotten her into Harvard, as you now seem to be implying her D’s serious medical issues helped her (!) is just over the top. And you suspect she wants you to be “infected” with the Harvard mystique because it “makes [her] feel good.” Take a deep breath.</p>
<p>Maybe this is the kind of intemperate outburst she was referring to a few posts back when she suggested that your emotional tone might be inappropriate, which is, I suspect, the thing you’re lashing out at. </p>
<p>I think that everyone here appreciates and understands your disappointment at your D not being accepted into schools you thought were matches. You have a lot of company and not a lot of scorn. </p>
<p>The problem I’ve had, right from your opening post, is the mean-spiritedness that comes across in some of your entries. It is not OK to say the kind of jaw-dropping nasty things you’ve just said to Compmom because you’re upset. You get a lot of empathy for your feelings around your daughter’s situation; you do not get a free pass on rancorous posts like #156.</p>
<p>You know I don’t want to make things any worse. Your original post bothered me a lot, I will admit. Let’s just say you miscommunicated some things while your feelings were running high, and maybe gave the wrong impression of yourself.</p>
<p>For the record, I did not mention Harvard at all and certainly did not mention jealousy (in fact, our daughter had another school she preferred, that was too expensive). That is just totally off, that’s all I can say, and maybe you are “projecting” as they used to say all the time.</p>
<p>I did make the point that you need to understand that any kids with health or learning issues, or difficult backgrounds, who then got into some enviable school because admissions saw them as “overcoming obstacles,” also probably truly suffered, and that trivializing this suffering as an unfair advantage in the admissions game is not a very compassionate stance. </p>
<p>But the real problem lies in your saying there is pain in watching “friends getting” what your daughter “wanted.” I don’t think you realize how this sounds.</p>
<p>I guess I would add that in my daughter’s and son’s classes, the kids did not apply to schools that their friends applied to. Our daughter might have liked to apply to Brown, but two of her friends really, really wanted to go there, more than she did, so she did not. They did not want to adversely affect each others’ chances by applying from the same school. The kids were all happy for each other, whatever happened. Our daughter did not even mention to anyone that she got into H. </p>
<p>Noone posted on lockers or made comparisons. It was a mixed bunch. Many kids were not going to college at all. Some were going in the military, one to diesel mechanic school, two were training to fight forest fires, one was going to school for fashion design, another for hair styling. Lots to community and state colleges. Like I said, everyone was graduating together and happy for each other.</p>
<p>I am glad our kids grew up in a low-pressure environment, pretty innocent of things like prestige. The quality of the school wasn’t great, but they had time to get to know themselves, and, for the most part, noone felt the kind of angst you are describing, after the acceptances or rejections were received.</p>
<p>I would definitely hope that, after this painful experience, you talk to the principal and try to help change the culture of the school, and eliminate some of those painful rituals centering on who “got in” and who didn’t. Many schools are working on this type of thing, with quite a bit of success (some are no longer posting honor rolls in the paper, for example). Some are even setting up centers inside the schools, that kids can go to to handle stress and stay on an even keel during all this craziness.</p>
<p>It is maybe corny to say, but I would give anything to have a healthy daughter, regardless of what school she might be in- just so she could continue her studies. It is hard to relate to your angst, but that is perhaps not fair: your angst is real. I just hope that you can turn the experience into something positive, that helps someone else coming along next year or the next.</p>
<p>Anonymom-- Compmom said precisely that she thought I was jealous that my D didn’t have to overcome obstacles which is what it takes to get into H. I am not nutty enough to make something like this up, it’s her comment! I am only quoting her, only the messenger. I am sorry that some of you seem to be such angry people from the way you react.</p>
<p>Look, on April 1, I was sad for the pain my D was going through. Since then-- one day later, in fact-- she was offered a fantastic 4-year full-ride scholarship at a highly respected school in her intended field of study and everything is coming up roses! I don’t know why I am reading all this bile anymore. Think whatever you like about my character and motives, my “inappropriate” emotions, and how I have ruined my daughter. Fortunately, it won’t change the fact that I have a spectacularly wonderful daughter who is beloved by all, who despite not getting into her “dream” schools, actually did extremely well in her admissions, has been adjusting to that reality just fine, and is more worried about what to wear to the prom than anything else at this point.</p>
<p>The quote below that I’m citing from post 158 is not at all directed at or against the OP, but I thought I would respond to it because the general issue comes up elsewhere on CC and on other forums as well:</p>
<p>“…any kids with health or learning issues, or difficult backgrounds, who then got into some enviable school because admissions saw them as “overcoming obstacles,” also probably truly suffered, and that trivializing this suffering as an unfair advantage in the admissions game is not a very compassionate stance.”</p>
<p>Just for clarification (again, I’m not saying the OP feels this way, but certainly plenty of others feel this way), one can suffer all through life (with inborn disabilities) or much of life (with disadvantages of birth), or in a “single” event that may last from a week to a few months (rejection by a college), but suffering is suffering. People think they want to trade their suffering from someone’s else’s, because from a distance they perceive it as less keen or less impactful or less life-changing (usually because they fail to understand its reach). But be careful what you wish for.</p>
<p>Number 2: A student isn’t so much being rewarded for pain or disadvantage as he/she is being invested in, as a proven example of success or triumph in the face of obstacles. Being a business, a college as an institution engages in risk assessment, and this, along with other measures of success, is one example of it.</p>
<p>(Just a sidebar.) :)</p>
<p>I do like the comment (also, in general) about changing the culture of a school (regarding the value of elitism and the priority of competition), but easier said than done. The college counseling office in my D’s school used to have an overt message on the webpage against elite college admissions as an end in itself; they praised & encouraged the smallest triumphs in the process, but the office and the student body were ships passing in the night. The prevailing student attitudes “ruled,” and seem still to. Not sure where those attitudes arise from: the culture in general, the culture of elite private high schools (at least, ours), or the parents of the majority of students, which leaves the minority odd-person-out, or the power-broker parents (often with money). Don’t know.</p>