<p>I'm an undergrad at Arizona State and will graduate next December in political science. I am looking at taking the LSAT in October (depending on how studying goes) or next year in June. Anyway, I've lived in the Phoenix area for over seven years and definitely plan on settling here--I'm a nontrad student (24). My GPA is a 3.8.</p>
<p>Just looking for thoughts/opinions on ASU's law school. (I know it won't be great for job prospects outside the SW area.)</p>
<p>From Top Law Schools dot com:
LSAT and GPA medians: 161, 3.6
LSAT scores at 25th and 75th percentiles: 158, 163 (2009)
Undergraduate GPAs at 25th and 75th percentiles: 3.3, 3.8 (2009)</p>
<p>yeah I trans out–i did well academically but i was miserable. </p>
<p>Can you elaborate about ASU.</p>
<p>BTW: I have a 50k grad school scholarship and undergrad is almost 100% paid for so it would cost me about 10k in law school tuition over the 3 years.</p>
<p>Put simply, you will be lucky to get a job coming out of ASU law. With your 3.8, you can do much better. Make sure to study hard for LSAT, go for a top law school or strong regionals (BC, Fordham, BU, UCLA, U Texas, etc) in order to increase your odds of gaining a good employment.</p>
<p>Btw, I am a Cornell alum heading to a top 10 law school. I am sorry that you did not enjoy your time at Cornell.</p>
<p>There aren’t many legal jobs in Arizona. Very few legal practice there, hence few firms recruiting. Which means, you won’t likely to get a high paying legal job. Law school recruiting is very geographically and school rank - driven. Make sure to choose schools that serve your career goals well.</p>
<p>If you did well enough at ASU you would be able to get a 115k job at somewhere like Snell and Wilmer. IDK, however, if those types of well paying midlaw jobs are reserved for T14+ cream of the crop at ASU and UA. Interestingly you could also get a prestigious job from a national firm if you did really well. I think there is a UA law grad at Williams and Connolly. She’s probably very very very talented, but it is still possible. I’m not sure if you would need a “market” paying job out of law school, though, because you would be paying in state and would end up with a hefty scholly if you did really well on the LSAT.</p>
<p>The odds are against you to land such a job out of ASU. It is possible, but highly unlikely… (You would need to be at least top 15% to stand a chance at such a job in my estimate, but I could be wrong)</p>
<p>And, getting a job at W & C out of Arizona State Law is equivalent to getting a job at Goldman Sachs Investment Banking Division coming out of Arizona State undergrad. I guess it can be done, but it is exception, not the rule.</p>
<p>Uhm, it is not “if you did well enough at ASU, you could get a six figure job”. It is more like “If you are at the top of your class like at least top 10-15%, you stand a decent chance to get a six figure mid-law job out of ASU. But, even then, that is far from a guarantee.”</p>
<p>I’d go as far as to say that it is even smaller than that. “Decent chance” and “could get” also serve the same purpose. Am I missing something? My first post acknowledged that it is the exception not the rule, too. </p>
<p>Ok, first, “well enough” is misleading. It could mean anything like being above median, etc. It is completely different from being top of the class (10%) - which you would need to get a decent firm job out of ASU Law. </p>
<p>And, getting a job at W & C or a V5 at NYC out of ASU Law is almost unheard of. There could be like 1 ASU Law alum every ten years who manages to get such a job. It is not even an ‘exception’. I’d say it is damn near impossible unless your daddy is a partner at such firms. Hence, I don’t think you should mention such a case. (This sorta thing is dangerous- you can mislead some prospective law students to get false information/expectation about employment, etc)</p>
<p>I’m not going to argue about semantics with you. It is obvious, however, that it is difficult to get a big/mid law job out of either of the Arizona schools. With that said, it is possible that OP may get a decent scholarship from one of those schools, so s/he would concievably not need a big/mid law job.</p>
<p>Edit: Also I don’t have a hidden agenda. If OP is not smart enough to take things on an anonymous internet forum with a grain of salt, than there is nothing I can do to help him/her. It is a fact, however, that there is a W & C associate who graduated from the UA law school. Since the two Arizona schools are basically peers, OP should know that such opportunities are possible but ultimately unlikely. All of this info is available to OP if he/she wanted to find it.</p>
<p>Choosing to enroll at ASU Law is an effective way to put the idea of getting a six figure legal job to the rest. And, some prospective law students don’t need/ or want to get such six figure jobs, as you mentioned.</p>
<p>However, it should be noted that outside of those big/mid-law jobs, the legal market is absolutely awful. The legal market is feast or famine. Coming out of ASU Law, you will be lucky to get a paying legal job. There are people from top ten law schools who are struggling to find legal work paying 40k a year. People should be warned that by chossing to attend a tier 2/3 law schools, they run into a significant risk of graduating unemployed, or struggling to find temp/contract work as an attorney. IMO, it is better not to bother with a law school with terrible job placements despite a full ride.</p>
<p>It would make no sense for someone who wanted to work in Phoenix go to BC, Fordham or BU.</p>
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<p>There are also not a lot of lawyers looking to work in Arizona.</p>
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<p>To start? Maybe. Certainly not for your entire career. There’s no reason to be fixated on short-term prospects if you’re not facing significant debt. Over the long term, you could probably do pretty well coming out of ASU.</p>
<p>The same could be said for anyone in any occupation. There could be some waitor/bartender/electrician that could hit six figs later into the career. Is it likely to happen? No.</p>
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<p>I guess it is a huge risk. Once you strike out on local Arizona firms, coming out of ASU Law, you are screwed. Law school is an investment. You should be striving to maximize employment potential. It would make sense for someone who wanted to get a respectable law job, regardless of location, to attend schools such as BC or Fordham over ASU Law. (If such options are available) </p>
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<p>Why do you think that is. Cuz’ most biglaw/midlaw firms exist in major financial centers - NYC, Chicago, LA. There maybe like 3-4 mid sized firms in Phoenix, that hire like 5-10 new attorneys each year. Like I mentioned, it is an uphill battle for someone to even get a paying legal gig out of ASU. Forget about six figure jobs.</p>
<p>these are all really good replies. i appreciate everyone’s opinion. </p>
<p>i agree, once i tap out of jobs in the SW market, i’d be screwed. the thing is im not looking to live outside of the SW. ive already lived in phoenix for seven years and i plan on settling here. the idea of moving for 3+ years to attend a school in a location i have no desire living in let alone settling in scares me. i don’t want to be recruited for a job in the NE b/c i happen to go to a school up there. i was hoping to go to ASU, intern/network at a local firm, and i’d be happy landing a job paying 70k-80k. </p>
<p>my fiancee makes six figures and im 24 so my income would pretty much go toward savings and investments. we already live a very nice lifestyle and our settled here. if i set my sights higher then im uprooting us for a place i don’t even want to be. </p>
<p>my big concern is debt versus job prospects. i dont want to leave law school with 50k in total debt from undergrad and law school only to find i can’t land a job more than 40k a year. ill make more like 60k a year with my current degree at a PR or lobbying firm (which are my plans should law school fall through for one reason or another). </p>
<p>i used to attend cornell and i hated it. ive done the whole prestigious school thing and it just wasn’t for me. so, short of getting into stanford, i don’t want to move the east coast and suffer for 3 years and then find all my job offers are in CT, NY, MA, etc. </p>
<p>and while no one knows what the legal job market is going to look like in 3 years, it’s prob a safe bet to plan for the worse scenario. i really just would like to make it into ASU and land a decent (65-75k) job upon graduation</p>
<p>I suspect you don’t know much about the legal market and its pay structure. Getting a 70k law job out of law school is near impossible, since such jobs don’t exist. In law, there are jobs paying 160k (biglaw) and other cluster of jobs paying 40-45k (personal injury, family law, etc), with very few other gigs paying anything in between those two clusters. Basically, strike out on Big/mid law, you are looking at 40-45k a year salay, if you are lucky to get a law job, that is. (and, there are thousands of recent law grads that fail to secure any sort of paying employment) There are people from T-14 schools who would be willing to give up an arm to get a legal job paying 70k a year. It just doesn’t happen.</p>
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<p>In law, you need to follow jobs, not let jobs follow you. And, most law firms/jobs are located in NE. So, if you are not fond of moving to NE or other places away from your home for the school or the job, yet want a decent salary, I say you forget about law and consider other career options.</p>