So Canada is now investigating…
Actually, this whole article is worth a read, covering many of the points we’re discussing in this thread.
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Lol, everything the government does is basically redistribution of wealth. Some you may like, others not so much.
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Most such redistributions involve some public benefit. In this case, the benefits went to 5 people
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That’s a good point, but it looks like Canada is bypassing that by investigating the launch ship Polar Prince since it’s Canadian-flagged. (see the Denver Post article above).
And here’s a Washington Post story about the possibility of more (or better yet, first-time) regulation, including requiring these vessels to register with the UN’s International Maritime Organization:
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Interesting tidbit from the old GeekWire articles… Rush had forged a partnership with NASA to research carbon fiber composites to build a submersible that could go even deeper.
But Titan was already built by then.
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…and this article suggests that the NASA references (and there appear to be many), as well as those to Boeing and the University of Washington, by OceanGate were, at best, misleading:
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Puffery was apparently abundant…
The article you cite lays out some of the legal issues very clearly. Definitely worth reading.
That’s going to be a big part of the legal battleground against OceanGate and its officers/directors.
Mere puffery is generally ok, but outright deception or fraud may be enough to overcome the passenger waivers and perhaps subject OG and others to even more serious legal repercussions.
I am sure that the lawyers for NASA, Boeing, and UW pushed heavily to get their respective disclaimers out immediately.
This is why I am sympathetic to the Dawoods and Harding. If I were them and heard that these stalwart organizations were in “partnership” with OG, that would give me much more comfort in signing up to go on the Titan. Rush was OG’s CEO, and it’s not clear what Nargeolet’s role was: meaning was he a guide paid by OG or just a passenger? Given his massive experience, it does make me wonder why he, of all people, joined this trip.
It remains to be seen what the “true” story really is.
I also wonder if OG had any kind of insurance that can be claimed upon. Ordinarily, I would say no, but nothing amazes me these days.
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Law Professors weigh in on the possibility of lawsuits and damages:
“Rush, the late OceanGate CEO, told AP in 2021 that it was an American company. But he said OceanGate Expeditions, which led dives to the Titanic, was based in the Bahamas.
“Thomas Schoenbaum, a University of Washington law professor and author of the book “Admiralty and Maritime Law,” said such documents may be upheld in court if they are worded well.
“If those waivers are good, and I imagine they probably are because a lawyer probably drafted them, (families) may not be able to recover damages.”
At the same time, OceanGate could still face repercussions under the Passenger Vessel Safety Act of 1993, Schoenbaum said. But it may depend on which arm of OceanGate owned the Titan submersible.
Schoenbaum said the Bahamas subsidiary has the potential to circumvent U.S. law, but courts have at times “pierced the corporate veil” and OceanGate could be found liable.
There are also questions of whether the Titan was insured or if the Canadian icebreaker’s insurance could come into play.
The countries where lawsuits may be filed could also depend on contracts signed by passengers and crew.
“I would be very surprised, in a high-risk operation like this, if the contract did not address which law applies and where any claim can be filed,” said George Rutherglen, a professor of admiralty law at the University of Virginia.
In the meantime, Rutherglen said, he expects the U.S. will respond with tighter regulations given the loss of life and the millions of dollars spent by the Coast Guard.”
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They would be wise to seek counsel immediately to plan for filing bk.
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The waiver probably has a choice of law provision and a jurisdiction. Also probably arbitration requirement.
No, I was referring to the Titan plan to go 13,000 feet below the service, which is far greater than the 1300 feet that was referenced in the post to which I responded.
From the OceanGate website:
The Titanic Expedition is a series of five 8-day mission legs to explore the world’s most famous shipwreck and its debris field. Mission Specialists generally join us for one 8-day mission. All missions begin in St. John’s, Newfoundland, Canada, transit to the site of the wreck, and return to St. John’s NL.
You will dive to the wreck site and explore the deep ocean in the world’s only human-occupied submersible capable of carrying five crew members to 4,000 meters.
How long is a Titanic dive?
A Titanic dive takes approximately 10 hours from start to finish:
- Mission Specialists board the submersible. Dome closes.
- Sub launches from the Launch and Recovery Platform (LARS).
- Descent begins. It takes about 2.5 hours to reach the bottom.
- Dive team explores for up to 4 hours depending on conditions.
- Ascent begins. It takes about 2.5 hours to reach the surface.
- Submersible recovered to the expedition vessel. Dome opens and Mission Specialists exit the sub.
With the possibility that the Titan was in the vicinity of the Titanic wreckage, that is very deep indeed, and not an easy rescue.
I’m shocked their site is still up.
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Agree!
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I have not read all the links posted on this thread, but I came across this article with James Cameron who believes they knew there was a problem and were trying to resurface.
I heard at least $6.5 million.
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This reminds me of a quote form Elizabet Holmes, "First they think you’re crazy, then they fight you, then you change the world.” We all know how this story ended. There is innovation, and then there is amateurism and recklessness.
As for the rescue mission, it is heartwarming to see the level of cooperation even if the resources could have been spent for a greater good
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Theranos was mentioned a few times in my house in the past week… sigh.
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I’m highly skeptical. Even if a sensor registered a failure, the failure would have led to an almost instantaneous imposition at that depth. One thing for sure… human neurons weren’t able to signal any pain because the implosion was so much faster than a neural could transmit a signal.
This kind of thinking is common in areas where creativity can lead to greatness. John Carreyrou, author of Bad Blood: Secrets and Lies in a Silicon Valley Startup, made the very salient point that this “fake it til you make it” behavior is all fine and good in industries where lives are not on the line. But it’s just blatant negligence in areas where the health and safety of the consumer of the product is at risk.
The comments made by this CEO also reminded me of Elizabeth Holmes. Some rules are meant to be broken. Safety rules, however, are there for very very good reasons, and now the arrogance of this man has not only led to his own death, but to the demise of others.
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