@gallentjill @GoldenRock Got your points. Because D has gone through the big pond in high school, she should research and pick right pond for UG or BS/MD in April. So far she wants to be in big pond, even though it is stressful.
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So give or take, out of all the students who started as premed, only 20%*20% or 4% of them manage to finish in 4 years and get into a USMD School.
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Based on what some one posted here a while ago, and it seemed credible, out of all the med school matriculates, 50% seem to have 1 or more gap years (30% 1 year, 20% > 1 year). That is a changing number and seems to be in an upward trend with each passing year with more kids trying to build up their backgrounds in research, ECs, getting a double major or even a masters, even before starting any effort towards med school admissions.
That means 50% will enter the med school right after undergrad. However, most undergrads take 4 full years in traditional route. Many of the bright premed kids would have finished tonnes of AP and dual enrollment college credits before the 1st day of undergrad. So technically they could have finished the undergrad in 3 years**(see below). The 4th year is usually spent on intensifying their research or medical EC activities, MCAT preparation, attending interviews etc, etc and serves as an unofficial gap or break year.
So considering the above, it is less than 50% who directly go from undergrad to med school. I would guesstimate anywhere between 35-40%. So reasonable to say 60-65% take a gap year.
** Many of the private and so-called âtop xxxxâ schools disallow credit for APs (even if you had 5s) or ask kids to take a higher level course in the same stream as a replacement if they want. The reasoning given is their college level course is at a higher academic standard than the AP. Perhaps the reason is they donât want to lose revenue from students by giving credit. Or perhaps they are right about the standards (like MIT for example gives credit only for AP Calc BC and AP Physics C with 5s and Caltech gives 0 credits), but whatever, it may not be feasible in many (but not all) private institutions to finish early (I think Carnegie Mellon is one of the few exceptions).
Also bear in mind these are the figures derived from matriculates only. If we consider all the students in the pre-med track (both who were successful and who were not), this percentage is only going to climb from the 60-65% figure I came up above to say 70-75%. So @GreenPoison 's figure of 80% seems to be in the ball park, though on the higher end. But I donât think anyone is tracking these figures for the entire premed track population, so we never know I guess.
Also want to point out that it is perfectly fine for people who start as premeds to change minds in first or second years. Nothing wrong, once they realize the variety of options at disposable, changing interests and weighing the pros and cons of a long and expensive medical education, many may have change of minds. Not due to lack of capabilities. As I pointed out earlier, I myself wanted D go into Quantitative Finance and pursue premed on the side, but left it to her choice who picked BA/MD. But had she listened to me, chances are very high that she would have been swept away into the lucrative and exciting world of finance (and guess she had known that and thatâs why turned down my advice cleverly :-).
Congratulations on your Dâs MCAT results and thanks for sharing. I asked D to focus at least couple of months in summer for MCAT preparation, but she just shrugs it off and says she doesnât need it and wants to engage in research instead. So kind of confidence boosting for me and reinforcing her impression about MCAT effort required.
We got FAU - BS/MD, 7yrs Medpiplines program acceptance todayâŠyahoooo⊠
@sajju786 congrats =D>
@sajju786 Congratulations !!!
@sajju786 Congrats!!
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What is more important is not the experience of Corolla or BMW to go from Point A to B, rather, did you reach, with out any crash (potential future customers to treat them!) or derailed and landed in point C (public is lucky you have decided not to become a Doc!) :)) :))Also there is no data (rather it is useless data even if it exists) on the success matriculation rate of BS/MD students. Most of the programs are few seats, just 5 to 15, with few exceptions. Most of the time either student opted out or forced out is not uncommon. Even if 1 student out of the 5 in a year did not matriculate it is 20% failed, which is skewed data. All BS/MD seats are < 5% of total seats for MD.
Your reasoning makes sense.
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@GreenPoison â your use of statistics is interesting, but, I believe, fatally flawed. You massage the numbers to arrive at a 4% medical school admit rate after 4 years of traditional UG, compared to at least 60% at a typical BS/MD program, but ignore the fact that the typical student in a BS/MD program has gone through a screening process that yielded 4% or less of all applicants just to be accepted into the program. What is your basis for concluding that a kid who went through a 4% screen to get into a BS/MD program wouldnât have a better than average, random chance to be among the 4% to go to med school after 4 years of UG? (For what itâs worth, Iâm also pretty sure your 4% number is low.)
I totally agree that there is a risk that a kid in a traditional program has to overcome distractions and temptations, and has to maintain interest, but the same is true in the BS/MD program. This is why the programs have dropout rates that might approach 40% or higher. The same kids who lose interest in a BS/MD program would certainly lose interest in a regular program. By the same token, the kids who stay focused in a BS/MD program would very likely be successful in a regular program.
Please keep in mind that the vast majority of the so-called 96% who donât make it through a regular program do not have the stats, grades, or level of interest of the typical kid even applying to a a BS/MD program, let alone those who have been accepted. Absolutely anyone, on a whim, can express interest in pre-med freshman year and then become part of your 96% 4 years later. It is not reasonable to compare those kids to the BS/MD kids, in support of a theory that BS/MD is a 15 times more certain road to medical school!
In the end, BS/MD is the more certain road only for the kid who ends up on the margins, with MCATs that would be okay, but not great, grades and ECs that are okay, but not great. I am pretty sure the vast majority of kids in these programs are not limping along with the minimums necessary to advance. The issue, of course, is that going in you do not know whether or not that kid on the margins will be yours. This doesnât change the reality that the kids accepted into the BS/MD programs are at the top of the class going in, and most of them would be there after 3 years of regular UG, and would be able to be accepted to more highly regarded medical schools at that time.
@OldSchoolMD â thank you very much for clarifying. I knew I was missing something. What you say makes perfect sense!
Congratulations @sajju786 !
@sajju786 , I am looking at the posts back from Dec-2018. Is FAU a guaranteed program. How hard is it to maintain a GPA of 3.7 every semester. Can you please share what you have learned about FAU during this process.
I think i didnt put my question right or put it blunt, which has started this whole discussion.
i have heard this explanation over and over again that all medical schools are same, difficulty of going to Med school through pre-med route, residency matching happens on all schools, insurance pay the same, keeping low dept, kids attends low ranked school does better than kids attending top school, kids could drop out in the middle of their premed, no patient asked which school a physican attended, etc. As an ORM parent, most of us know before reading this forum. i completely agree with all these points from a quantitative perspective.
my question is asked under these premises. i assume that all kids who are getting or competing for BS/MD are very capable of getting into a top 25 school and a good medical school after that. i also believe that they will continue to keep their work ethic unless something happens drastic.
The question is, assuming the kid can afford private tuition, With ORM parents analysis overloaded and aversion to risk, are they denying the kids an experience to study in a top school? i also understand that it is left to kids what they make out of a school. i am sure if it is not for BSMD admission, we will not allow our kid to go to a 100+ ranked school.
Once again, i am not talking down on any schools and will send my D or S to a BSMD over top UG school because of MY aversion to risk. But i was torn apart when i walked down the aisle of a top school and other 100+ ranked schools and questioned myself whether we are denying the experience or chance to our kids due to our my weakness of over analysis and risk to aversion. When i say experience, i think about faculty, research, top notch resources, peers, kids pride, even the location, etc.
Congratulations to all kids who made it into BSMD so far. Great effort.
@NJDad00 ,
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This doesn't change the reality that the kids accepted into the BS/MD programs are at the top of the class going in, and most of them would be there after 3 years of regular UG, and would be able to be accepted to more highly regarded medical schools at that time.
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Wish it was that simple and I hope it were. But refer to @NoviceDad 's posts from couple of days ago where he shared about kids with undergrad gpas >3.8 to 4.0 and MCAT > 99.5% iles âŠ
To those who question my statistics, here are the hard facts.
At a top school like Northwestern, âabout 70% of Northwestern students who are accepted to medical school take at least one (sometimes more!) gap/bridge year(s)â- this is the most recent statistic and is straight from their website.
If even at a top school (where there are plenty of exemplary premeds who are extremely intelligent) there is this high of a gap year rate, what do you think this says about traditional premeds at the rest of the nations universities?
Furthermore, this 4% number that someone above mentioned for BSMD admissions is absolute bunk. Most programs( besides the top tier of UAB, Rice Baylor, HPME, PLME etc.), have upwards of 5% admissions rates. Just look at your stereotypical middle of the line program- TCNJ/NJMS- on average, the acceptance rate hovers between 7-10%. Lower tier programs can range from 10-20%.
Also, someone mentioned that many pre med applicants donât have the same âstats, grades, or level of interestâ as BSMD applicants~ thatâs objectively false. Plenty of people apply for BSMD programs on a whim- just like many of traditional students mark down pre-med on their major when they first enter college âjust becauseâ.
Additionally, I do not know why people keep on proposing the idea that if you can get into a BSMD program, you can get into a better medical school by going the traditional route. Itâs absolutely ridiculous and arrogant for any student to assume that just because they did well in high school, they can still do well in college. The setting is completely different, and the learning environment is inherently more difficult. Thereâs no guarantee whatsoever that your academic skills will translate over- before, top students were most likely big fish in a small pond; now, they are still big fish just in bigger ponds.
I would argue that in almost all cases, as long as one is committed to medicine, BSMD is the smarter choice than the traditional undergraduate premed path unless the undergraduate school is a notorious grade-inflator or HYPS.
Ultimately, BSMD students have a safety net in their back pocket, while also being able to gamble on themselves in the form of applying out if they are still superstars in college.
@Mahikesh who made the choice to apply to certain set of colleges / programs - You or your DD?
@sajju786, Congratulations !!!
@CurleyFries, i understand where you are steering toâŠOcouse , the kids apply made their choice with their parents counselling 
@sajju786, Congratulations !!!
Congatulations@sajju786
@Mahikesh
If your DD made the choice of the colleges with your counseling, then you donât have to worry about your part of comment, right (as long as you did your homework before counseling her whether a college would fit HER and not YOU)?
ââŠquestioned myself whether we are denying the experience or chance to our kids due to our my weakness of over analysis and risk to aversionâ