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<p>“Giving in” is covering a lot of ground in that sentence, though. “Giving in” does not always equal consent. She “gave in” and stopped struggling because he was holding a knife to her throat: still rape. She “gave in” and acted interested because he threatened her children or her job: still rape. She “gave in” and agreed to have sex with him because she wanted to be more popular, even though she wasn’t interested and thought the whole thing was icky: not rape.</p>
<p>Not sure all girls are getting the message to only “do what they want”. From what I have heard and read, some girls feel peer pressure to participate in the “hook up” culture because that is just the way things are. I hope that girls are getting the message that they should only do what they want AND that it is OK if what they want is to not participate. </p>
<p>If you want your girls to know this? Speak frankly and openly and explicitly about sex and expectations. If a young woman is aware of what she can expect from a sexual encounter, good or bad, then she can make her choices accordingly. Too many parents fail to discuss sex openly with their daughters. I understand it is an uncomfortable conversation. And, there are books that can be given instead. But all girls should be aware of the difference between a mutually satisfying sexual encounter and a selfish sexual request. It helps them to not be taken by surprise. </p>
<p>However, I want to reiterate that hook up culture and sex have nothing to do with rape. Rape is not sex and the incidence of campus rapes has not increased in decades. Only reporting has increased. Rape was a problem long before hook up culture arrived on campus.</p>
<p>“I do wonder about this: “The young man, an A student in high school, can’t get another college to look past that one drunken tryst.””</p>
<p>He must be trying to get into colleges that are as selective as Occidental, which is going to be an uphill battle. If not, he needs to call me, because there are plenty of places that will give an expelled student another chance. (We also don’t know what his grades were – they could be keeping him from transferring. HS grades don’t matter much once you have a college GPA.) </p>
<p>If the NBA had the same standards as Occidental College, Kobe Bryant would not have played basketball for years.
Another ‘he said, she said’. The case was settled in civil court for as they say ‘an undisclosed sum’.</p>
<p>Yes. And many journalists still working today would be fired for plagiarism instead of just being exposed. What’s your point?</p>
<p>Your comment made no sense to me. The point is that neither law or society punish a man simply based on an accusation of rape. (Think of a certain former president). </p>
<p>There has to be some proof beyond a mere accusation. </p>
<p>This is the last thing I’ll say, but this bugs me. If you are the parent of a son and you want to protect your son from the highly unlikely and rare case of false reporting, teach him to be careful about going home with girls he doesn’t know well </p>
<p>This is the advice we give our girls. </p>
<p>And good advice it is. Also, no one night stands. Only committed relationships. No drunkeness. </p>
<p>What bothers me is that a male college student’s life could be ruined based simply on an accusation, without anything further. The motive could be revenge or embarrassment on the girl’s part. We don’t apply this standard outside of the college setting. Certainly a boy’s college career is at least as important as a wealthy or powerful person’s political or basketball career. </p>
<p>Would a college simply take an accuser’s word for it for other crimes? </p>
<p>Right. So it is highly advisable for young men to be careful who they are having sex with. They should be wary of a girl they don’t know well and be aware that this is a risk. Why on earth would they take such a risk?! Be smart. Protect yourself. </p>
<p>Regarding G. WIll:
Up until now rapists have largely been been a protected class both in terms of police and campus response. The federal government isn’t creating a class of victims, people who rape are creating a class of victims. Don’t take that to mean that I believe that people who have been victims of rape are “victims” in a global sense. However, I see the term “victimhood status” as a way to marginalize the issue by implying that people who stand up for their dignity and human rights are being shrill and unreasonable. </p>
<p>I wholeheartedly disagree that the alleged victim’s “character and psychological stability” need to be examined. That takes us right back to the dark ages.</p>
<p>I’m not horribly worried for the men. If the DOJ is not going to protect the men equally, they can sue (and it’s happening) the colleges/universities if they feel their Title IX rights were violated and they can sue the accusers in civil court if the proceedings become public or there is defamation of character and those lawsuits will help shape procedure within the colleges. Ultimately I think there will be clearer definition of what constitutes sexual misconduct covered by the code of conduct and degree of punitive action. I think there will be clearer definition on campuses about what is rape, what is sexual assault and what is misconduct and I think there will be clearer guidance on what actions are required when the stories are equally believable. I did tell my final college son to stay away from certain types of behavior since the stakes are too high to risk his academic years over something not related to academics.</p>
<p>I saw George Will on tv once saying that he approved of the government providing assistance to families with deaf children. He dissaproves of virtually all other forms of assistance, naturally. </p>
<p>George Will has a deaf child.</p>
<p>@Consolation “George Will has a deaf child”</p>
<p>I don’t think he has a deaf child. I think he has an adult son with Down’s Syndrome.</p>
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<p>I absolutely think women (or people) who are raped and sexually assaulted are “victims.” I don’t think I see women (or people) that put themselves in harms ways always as victims…I can feel sorry for them, but they are not always victims in my opinion because what happened to them was not entirely out of their control. Victimized…maybe I could go there if I had to “choose a word.” </p>
<p>@Much2learn, perhaps I recalled the incorrect disability, but whatever it was he was saying that HIS family had received the services in question.</p>
<p>momofthreeboys, a person who walks alone down a dark alley in a dangerous area at night may be said to be putting themselves in harm’s way, but if they are mugged they are still a victim, IMHO. That is a slippery slope to the old-fashioned “she was asking for it.”</p>
<p>But according to some the definition of “harms way” is being in a room alone with a guy or walking down the street after dusk. They can still be victims of a crime. The broad definition of “harms way” and limited culpability on the part of the perpetrator is used daily as license to attack women around the world. People had better stop making laws banning head scarves if that’s going to be the measure of female “responsibility”.</p>
<p>Victimhood mentality is not about victims. It’s about people who see themselves as victims or potential victims. Of course, if you are raped you are rape victim. All college girls are not potential rape victims anymore than the rest of us are potential victims of mugging. I mean, I suppose we are and we should take precautions but the label is questionable. Girls who have unfortunate encounters that they later regret were not necessarily raped, especially if the rapist had no ill intent. Guys pressuring girls for sex is nothing new, either.</p>
<p>No. But girls reporting rape IS new. Guys should behave accordingly and know the risks they are taking if they drink too much, engage in one night stands, and pressure a reluctant girl to have sex. Being a victim of a false report is very easily avoidable. </p>
<p>Redefining rape and reporting this behavior it to a university is new. Reporting rape is not new. There are rape units at every police department the country and they are quite busy. They do, however, require a certain standard of evidence which is true of every other crime they handle as well.</p>
<p>To be clear - I don’t think pressuring reluctant girls into having sex is an admirable thing to do but I haven’t gotten to where it is a crime or a reason for expulsion yet, either. There’s just way too much grey area in this discussion and many of the examples presented on this thread. No, not all of them.</p>