<p>I think it isn’t so much the “building homes in Cancun for some nonprofit” that is the killer. </p>
<p>It used to be terrific if you played a sport through high school, and if you were a captain or MVP that was awesome. But if you write that here on CC, the next five posters (and I’m talking parents) will say, “Eh. But are you ranked nationally? Played on any Junior Olympic Development teams?” </p>
<p>First chair clarinet in the high school band? “Eh. Have you won anything at a national competition? All State isn’t much to brag about either.”</p>
<p>A 5 on the AP AB-BC Calc tests? “Eh. Nothing special.”</p>
<p>We all have read those comments here on CC. So the ante is upped for anyone reading CC, or anyone in an upper middle class good suburban school system who asks other parents what their kid should be doing in high school. So what gets written on college aps? “I have been playing the clarinet since kindergarten, and have played with the Peabody Children’s Orchestra since…” We parents have created this monster in terms of no time to chill. </p>
<p>I think colleges weren’t originally looking for the ECs that are so in depth that almost nobody can compete, but now that the applicants are displaying such depth, and at such competitive levels, that’s who they admit. Because they can.</p>
<p>My own renaissance children do some music, and some sports, and some volunteering and get summer jobs, and get fine grades… But here on CC, they are simply “Eh”. </p>
<p>We are quite chill. But we aren’t ever going to be Ivy material.</p>
<p>From the employer side, I’ve noticed that some of the recent ivy grads that have worked for me, are different, and in many ways much more challenging, to work with, because of the intensity and the need to act quickly with which they approach work. It leads to decisions without adequate reflection, often accompanied by a sense of entitled righteousness. They are startled when told no.</p>
<p>This certainly isn’t a characteristic found in all grads from certain schools, but it does seem to be more prevalent, and has actually led me to be more aware of this when interviewing candidates.</p>
<p>I don’t know the answer, given the college arms race though. It would be great though, if kids had more time to just hang out and discover the world in a less scheduled way.</p>
<p>I think this is a very good discussion with some insightful comments particularly by eastcoascrazy. One interesting idea to settle down this arms race is to see if somehow college admin’s start letting out that they are going to give higher weight to actual real world work experience. I do not mean having your parents pay for you to build houses in Africa, I mean working behind the counter at Burger King and learning to interface with the public and fellow employees. This may cause parents to back off pushing kids into so many scheduled activities.</p>
<p>The arms race is horrific and is clearly leading to many of the smartest kids entering the working world with awful real world interpersonal skills.</p>
<p>I will just share our own experience. When kids were growing up, H and I took turns in staying home with them (working from home). We had sitters, but we were very accessible to them. They had ballet, violin, piano, kumon outside of school. We took them on vacations with us, we rarely ever left them at home by themselves. We did a lot of things as a family. We had dinners together probably 5 days out of the week, and those meal times could last for a while if we weren’t busy. When we had friends over, they were often required to stay and help out. When they had friends over, we made sure they had plenty of food, movies, and whatever entertainment they needed.</p>
<p>I think we are typical parents who probably should have chilled out (according to the article and some people here). But contrary to what people may want to believe, our kids are very hard working, and they have great interpersonal skills, especially with adults. They are not some entitled brats. Just because they like to talk to us (call us frequently) does not mean they are mommy or daddy’s girls, they are quite independent and have their own mind. When something good (or bad) happens to me, I like to call H to share the news with him. Why wouldn’t my kids want to do that with us? After all, we’ve lived with them for 18+ years.</p>
<p>For the high school class of 2012, we have a Flickr page where we are sharing pictures/videos of our kids. I am just blown away at how talented so many of those kids are. I have watched kids playing piano duet without any rehearsal for a state competition, a girl playing great sax, kids in plays, and so many great dancers. I am sure all of those kids feel accomplished and confident to be so good at their respective ECs. I know my kids feel they could over come almost anything because of their ballet training (try having someone criticize you while you are half naked). But without all of those dedicated parents paying, driving, and encouraging those kids, I don’t think they could have done all of those things on their own.</p>
<p>I would rather see more overly involved parents than those dead beat parents who won’t get off their lazyboy chair to attend their kid’s concert or graduation. I don’t think it is time to chill, it is time to get those bottom 75% parents to be more pro-active about raising their kids.</p>
<p>I feel so much better now, and I need a new hobby before I start my next job.</p>
<p>Go tutor at the local community college. I"ve been doing this since my kids don’t “need” my helicoptering anymore, and I’m finding it really rewarding. Two of the kids I’ve been working with, who had really bad K-12 writing skills were recently accepted as transfers to the state flagship and I feel as proud of them as if they were my own. Both texted me the news the moment they recieved it.</p>
<p>Keep in mind that another likely reason why some parents who don’t attend their kid’s concert or graduation is because they’re unable to because they’re struggling to put food on the table and are in extremely low-paid/insecure employment situations. That described most of my childhood classmates whose parents were working 2-3 jobs 6+ days/week just to afford food and shelter…and many high school classmates whose immigrant parents worked as waiters or other low-income jobs for 12+ hours/day 6+ days a week. </p>
<p>All the “proactive parenting” you’re describing is really a preserve for upper/upper-middle class families who have the income, more secure employment situation, and negotiable leisure time to afford all that. That’s the world not available to most Americans.</p>
<p>I think one of the reason my son was so successful with admittances is because he had a no frills part time job at Marshall’s while in high school (and when he comes home on break.) He also had several EC’s (two bands, XC & track for 4 years and Masterminds) but no awards, no leadership positions and he did not find the cure for cancer. No AP classes and graduated 23rd out of a class of 63. </p>
<p>Up until high school he came home after school and played outside or vegged out in front of the TV. We didn’t sign him up for any EC’s because, imo, young kids need down time, play time and lots of sleep. </p>
<p>What was most important to us was that he learn to be independent and to make decisions on his own. We sent him to regular sleep away camp for 8 weeks starting when he was 7 until he aged out at 15. We weren’t even allowed to call for the first two weeks and rarely did after, plus only one visiting day (which was one too many most years.)</p>
<p>We also were the mean parents who refused to run to school with the forgotten homework or book and made him do those stupid diaromas all by himself. :)</p>
<p>He’s not at an Ivy, but is at top 25 LAC. (fwiw)</p>
<p>I think the article misses the role fear now plays in our lives. Yes, my mother used to kick us outside after lunch and not see us again until she rang the bell for dinner (we actually had a bell on th side of the house!). She had no idea what we were doing. And she was also not terrified that we had been kidnapped or were being molested by the creepy guy who lived several blocks away. Parents schedule play dates and activities because they live in fear that something horrible will happen if their children’s whereabouts are not accounted for. </p>
<p>I recall laughing at a family who wouldn’t let their kids go to any home where there were guns. Really? I never even had that one on my list cuz where I grew up, in a farming community, EVERYBODY had guns. If you didn’t hunt (and most did), you needed one to shoot the occasional critter who wandered into the farmstead or maybe put down an animal of your own. Fear again. </p>
<p>Anyway, “helicopter parents” did not develop in a vacuum nor do they deserve all the blame for dependant kids. There’s way more at work here.</p>
<p>I’ve also worked with college freshman for the last 21 years. Yes, things have gotten a bit weirder. I get calls from parents sometimes, which I find odd. This year, I actually had an in-person visit. Odder still. And very uncomfortable. It is too much. And there are more of these situations than there were in the past, and yes it seems unhealthy. </p>
<p>I think most of my students touch base with their parents on a daily (or near daily) basis, and yet I don’t think they’re particularly overattached. Communication is easy because of texting. Most are, as familyof3boys pointed out, just sharing little things and moving on with their days. They say stuff liked “Rocked that test!” or “Wow, I think I bombed that one” or “Just saw somebody with green hair” and they get responses like “Great job, son” or “hopefully, you did better than you thought” or “So, was the green hair pretty?”. It just doesn’t seem that intrusive, nor do I think it’ll slow down the progress toward independence. </p>
<p>As for the activities race? Guilty. And not guilty. I often try to force down time on d1. Never giong to happen. Just who she is.</p>
<p>I hope that I did not come across as someone who is saying that these kids are coddled. I was worried about my DS texting me during a college visit because I didn’t want him to seem dependent. But, the truth is times have changed since we were kids - when we would go “out” all day, and our parents had no idea where we were.</p>
<p>This generation is more connected, for better or worse. If they think of something funny that Mom would laugh about, they’ll text her. Actually, I am glad for this ability to bounce thoughts off of one another. I’m grateful that my kids even make the effort to keep in touch with with us old fogies.</p>
<p>Kids text incessantly.
Kids text when things happen as though if they don’t immediately text a thought or experience, it didn’t occur.
Parents just happen to be among the people kids text.
Doesn’t mean they want to climb back into their mother’s womb.</p>
<p>I actually can’t even figure out why anyone cares how much someone’s kids call or text, or why this is seen as anything other than different types of communication styles.</p>
<p>I have one who might call a couple of times one day and then not for a day or two, or for a week might call every day when she is on her way places.</p>
<p>I have one who does not even know how to make a phone call, or at least not to us.</p>
<p>But, neither is more or less attached to me or my husband. Each just has a different level of newsiness to the way they like to live.</p>
<p>I have a younger, much younger, sister in law, and she has this amazing facebook, like one of the world’s most savvy daily self-marketing plans. I’ve never seen anything this slick and well-done on the facebook. Does this mean anything? No. She’s just very good at communicating in this way.</p>
<p>Why is this even something we need to “know” about each other.</p>
<p>People used to visit every day. People used to live in small towns their entire lives. Families used to live together forever. Comparing how things are now to how things once were is as silly as comparing these days to the days of calling cards and ‘at homes.’ Social norms change. Either change or get left behind. Rather change.</p>
<p>poetgirl - tutoring at a community college is a great thing to do, especially when you know you are making an impact. Unfortunately, I do not speak Spanish, and most kids here do not speak English (I am in Mexico). I do some mentoring of younger people to help them find their first job (long distance). I have a colleague who goes to his local colleges (in MD) to speak with students about jobs in CS and finance. He’ll pass me few good resumes to look at.</p>
<p>I definitely self-orphaned. It was necessary, painful, and important for me to become who I now am. My older sister avoided this process, and the result was pathetic. But I had an emotionally abusive childhood, and the author’s childhood sounds dysfunctional as well. She clearly needed the same drastic measures. My own children, however, have had a loving, non-manipulative home environment and therefore merely need to separate in the way all young adults do. They do not need an agonizing, gut-wrenching, isolating and lonely pilgrimage–just a regular old growing up. I don’t see how that relates to over-scheduling or helicoptering. It’s a different issue. There are evil or stupid helicopter parents, as well as good and wise ones. </p>
<p>That said, I do find it a little odd, and perhaps pathological, that my friends’ kids are constantly calling them and asking for advice. Not asking for advice about things like buying car insurance or filling out their tax return, since presumably a parent would know much more about those things than a 21 year old. But they are asking for advice about things they need to be deciding for themselves, and indeed are in a better position to know about and decide upon than their parents are. Often they are simple, low risk decisions. “Which store near campus should I go to to buy shampoo?” “Which section of Chemistry should I take–the Tuesday-Thursday class, or the M W F class?” So you hear the mom say, “Well, is it the same professor for both? Do you know anything about the teacher? Which fits better with your other classes?” and so on." Mom leads the kid through a decision-making process that I think the kid should be able to do on their own just fine, or else with advice from peers at college. Sometimes you can hear that the mom is a little frustrated being asked about a college situation she is ill-informed about and says “Well, I don’t know what to tell you.” Or else she’ll be forced to ask endless background questions about a situation that she has no first-hand knowledge of, and is often still mostly clueless about even after getting answers. The kid likely knows mom is useless, but persists in pushing her for a verdict. It’s as though the student needs an answer from mom to absolve him or herself of responsibility if the decision doesn’t turn out well. This sort of thing, I think, can be stunting or crippling to a young person’s growth.</p>
<p>TheGFG - I agree with you, kids should be able to work through that decision making process. I used to get calls from D1 about how to get some where or where to eat at a new place. But now with smartphone GPS and Yelps, she is much better at navigating than me. The role seem to have switched some what, D1 will make dinner reservations and tell us how to best get to a place.</p>