<p>Any insights or tricks of the trade on how to have a smoother end-of-high-school experience with a wonderful but willful (yet otherwise on track) teen?</p>
<p>My son was like that. Daughter was not.</p>
<p>I think that for some personality types, college -- with the opportunity it offers for living away from home more than half the year -- comes about two years too late. My son seemed to feel really oppressed by living at home and going to high school during 11th and 12 grades.</p>
<p>I tried to lower the tension level by ignoring a lot of minor issues and pestering him only when something was truly important, but this was merely a stopgap measure, and it didn't work too well.</p>
<p>The only real cure is college. Once he got to college and had his own space and his own life, he became a much more pleasant person to deal with -- even during those times of the year when he was at home.</p>
<p>I would also love words of wisdom on this!! I find I am shaking my head more and commenting less, although I have almost bitten my tongue in half;)</p>
<p>I try to ask fewer questions than I did when both S's were younger. Of course we talk about "important" things but I've made a conscious effort to cut back questioning about stuff that maybe I would like to know but really isn't that important...seems like the little detail questions bother kids more than the big stuff sometimes.</p>
<p>So when he comes in after being out with friends, I may ask "Did you get something to eat?" If he says "yes" I just let it go and don't ask for a detailed report about where he ate and who he ate with and how much money he spent, etc. I might be interested to know that information but it's not a big need to know question. </p>
<p>By this age they are speading their wings and trying to assert independence and it really bugs them for the Mama to keep asking little nit-picky questions about trivial (to them) details. So as long as things are going reasonably well, I try to just stick to questions about the important stuff and let him handle the rest without my interference. So what if he ate at Wendy's 3 times in one day?</p>
<p>My rising senior has become downright rude at times. He has a "why are you bothering me now and what the h&$$ do you want?" attitude. Lately he acts like he knows absolutely everything. I try not to argue too much with him, because there's just no point.</p>
<p>I'm trying to have a good experience the last couple of weeks my daughter is at home too. Third child. One would think I would know exactly what and what not to do by now. And I do, in theory. Back off. Back way off. Application is difficult though, because she is leaving in a couple of weeks, and I want to spend more time with her, not less. But they have to separate mentally before they separate physically, it seems. Some kids, anyway. That's my experience.</p>
<p>Be strong. He's striving for independence, and wants to seem in control even though he's nervous about the transition to college. Don't mess with his self-image. It's really not about you; in 2-3 years he will be back to his loving self and you'll be the same, but with more gray hair. ;)</p>
<p>Set a few straightforward, simple rules, and stick to them. Have natural consequences for violations that YOU ARE WILLING AND ABLE TO ENFORCE. You shouldn't use punishments as a constant threat; they are less effective that way. </p>
<p>Try to get family business done at a relaxed time, like Sunday brunch. Mention plans while they are still in the formative stage and can be discussed. Have a family calendar for everyone to use, and teach him to make an individual list for himself as to what is expected for the week. That will keep him on schedule, more or less, and fewer conflicts will make an easier year for everyone.</p>
<p>SO, they are rude and you ignore it, would you let a 6 year old treat you like that, a 24 year old, but yet you let a teen, who can manage to be nice to others, but doesn't bother to try and be courteous to family</p>
<p>Interesting that we will not accept a tantrum from a 2 year old, but from a teen, well gee don't upset his self confidence by telling him not to treat you like dirt</p>
<p>If they are smart enough to get into college, they are smart enough to not be rude</p>
<p>" i try not to argue too much with him" </p>
<p>it like we are allowing or teens to be bullies and pass it off as okay, they are looking for independence</p>
<p>you know, many kids are independent, and also kind and not rude</p>
<p>my Ds aren't perfect, but they don't go out of their way to be snooty, and when they are, I bring it to their attention, I will say, Excuse me, that wasn't necessary, and by gosh they stop</p>
<p>Well, I'm going to be a junior, just saw this topic, and here's what I think...</p>
<p>You should NOT try to nit pick questions, that mom was absolutely right. It drives me CRAZY when I'm asked what I ate (does it matter...?) and the little details about exactly what happened. We are old enough to tell you what we want to tell you, and if we don't want to tell you, it begins to feel like an interrogation. </p>
<p>Also, as you pile the chores on, remember that your s/d is going to school, ecs, working a job, and trying to relax and be a teenager. If you pile chores, you should add like a freedom...most teenagers feel they get the bad stick-all the responsibilities with none of the freedom. For example, "take out the garbage...15 extra minutes for curfew on friday/saturday" or something...</p>
<p>As for general attitude, you should let your teen have it out at least once (let her slam a door or whatever...but just leave the person alone...). Nobody is perfect, and even adults have temper tantrums sometimes. Don't act like teens should have to be perfect.</p>
<p>Don't obsess over grades, etc. Most of my friends have issues with their parents over this, more than any other thing....Like, when opening a report card, don't ask, "What did you get?" ask, "Did you do your best?"</p>
<p>Sounds like me, Senior year, 31 years ago. College was definately a cure for me. Not that I didn't love my parents, but I wasn't particularly close to either of them. I didn't want that to happen when I had kids.</p>
<p>As for my D (who had the "attitude" starting in Sophomore year), I tried to find common ground with her, something we both enjoyed doing that we could do together. Besides shopping (too expensive) we also watched some fo the same TV shows together and we'd make it a weekly event. We also had a weekly Saturday (or Sunday) lunch date, and boy we both looked forward to that! She always joked that she looked like such a loser having lunch with her Mom, but I don't think she really cared what it looked like; we had so much fun together. Now that her h.s. years are behind her, and college looms ahead, we're both going to miss that together time. I noticed these past few weeks DD has been trying to spend as much time with me as possible. I think she's going to miss me as much as I'll miss her.</p>
<p>Sometimes moms ask the "neutral" questions like about food to get some sort of conversation going, its not that we much care about what you ate, sometimes its a question to check in that is not really that noisy</p>
<p>why not just say, oh we had pizza...why is that soooooooo hard to respond to, and why not walk in the door, and go Hey mom, don't worry about me and food, we had burgers, how was your day?</p>
<p>Or how about, calling mom and going, hey on my way home, you need anything thing</p>
<p>Part of growing up and being mature and all that is seeing that others besides yourself have needs and by saying, gee we had pasta, is not in anyway diminishing ones sense of independence, it is just having manners, which don't have to disappear just because you are older</p>
<p>Gosh, take out the garbage, egad, the horror</p>
<p>Why not just take out the garbage without being asked?</p>
<p>Go go go, citygirlsmom - I couldn't agree with you more.</p>
<p>These kids want to be grown-ups, well the reality is:
1-For the rest of their lives, being polite and treating fellow human beings with respect will not only be a good idea but A REQUIREMENT of being grown-up, maintaining their source of income, surviving.
2-Parents are the only ones charged with the responsibilty of teaching our children this.</p>
<p>We are living in a world that is becoming increasingly rude and I believe it starts with what they learn at home. In our house we try to operate under a micro-real-world environment. In the real world a person who is rude, rebellious, and/or irresponsible loses their customers, their business, their job, their house, or their car. In our house, people who are rude & irresponsible lose spending money, car privileges, curfews, and trust. It is a real simple cause and effect. There is no big battle, it is merely a matter of asking a few simple questions:</p>
<p>"You want to take the car? Did you finish the things you commited to do for me by tonight? [groom the dog, put away the clean laundry, dishes, etc.]...No, well I guess you know the answer don't you?"</p>
<p>AND the big thing is when I am having a challenging day and not being polite myself, the kids are free to call me on it too (and I WANT them to) so that I can correct MY behavior. Overall our family knows that neither I nor their dad accept ANY excuse for bad behavior (and that includes PMS or lack of sleep), and we expect to receive and give apologies when it happens.</p>
<p>Behavior should match priorities, those who you care about the most should always get your best behavior (shouldn't that be the ideal we strive for?).</p>
<p>It's hard to "lose" the momming tendency- that is, the propensity to want to know and give advice on anything and everything. I try to think about how I'd feel if I was on the receiving end whenever I have the urge.</p>
<p>spideygirl-
In answer to your OP:
Try a straight-forward blunt conversation that you request with your S or D.
"----, I have a few things I'd like to talk to you about as you are going into the final part of HS, when would be a good time to spend about 30 minutes with you? We could make it lunch or coffee, or while we go pick up the shoes you need for soccer, let me know what works for you."
Outline that you notice what seems to be building stress/tension as the end of HS approaches [or that you are feeling stressed, and for YOUR benefit need to know a couple things] and that you want to give him/her the best support you can, you want to be fair and clear about expectations and decide ahead of time how certain things will be handled, etc. Ask for input and thoughts and let them know they can get back to you with more thoughts[by a specific time so it doesn't hang up in the air], just because they request something doesn't mean you have to give it to them.</p>
<p>It is a good idea to say back to them what you think they said to make SURE it IS what they meant, and ask them to do the same. Repeat that until both of you agree the other one understands. Stating and understanding each others expectations BEFORE situations arise, I have found to be the best way to deal with all human beings. Hope this helps. Stay strong and trust the relationship.</p>
<p>Agree with doubleplay. </p>
<p>The mommy/child relationship is changing. There will be some bumps along the way as it changes. </p>
<p>It is treating the emerging adult with respect to back off. It is a transition time. The emerging adult is not an adult, has some big insecurities, is trying hard to prove he or she can handle things. Needs his or her space to spread his wings and fly. Communication skills are not completely developed with some of these kids. They get better. Going away to college, separation from the parents, is necessary for this to happen in some cases. </p>
<p>And you know what. I have backed off and a couple of days ago, my daughter asked for <em>advice</em> about something. And, I, of course, was extremely flattered that she asked. This after, you know, letting me know that she is an adult and can handle things on her own, etc. But the conversation had to be on her terms, she had to bring it up, not me. It is a time of transition. The relationship is evolving.</p>
<p>All great advice here. Thank you! </p>
<p>Marian: “I think that for some personality types, college -- with the opportunity it offers for living away from home more than half the year -- comes about two years too late”</p>
<p>This is EXACTLY where we are!</p>
<p>Midwesterner: “Set a few straightforward, simple rules, and stick to them. Have natural consequences for violations that YOU ARE WILLING AND ABLE TO ENFORCE. You shouldn't use punishments as a constant threat; they are less effective that way.”</p>
<p>I am trying to do this. It’s hard to find natural consequences sometimes (to encourage better decision-making, without inadvertently causing some other problem).</p>
<p>For example, DD loves to cook, and shuns what the family is eating. However, she leaves pots, pans, etc. etc. – a HUGE mess, in the sink and on the counters 90% of the time. I have spoken to her a bazillion times. Pleaded. Today after spending 30 minutes scrubbing hardened egg off of spatulas and pans I decided – no more cooking unless it’s the weekend and I have the time to stand right there and enforce the clean up.</p>
<p>Another example…After major incessant snippiness and disrespect, and refusal to do her one 10 minutes daily chore (she says she’ll do it later, and then never does), and absolutely no apology or contrition (she is playing hardball at the moment, and now will just say “NO” to things)), I decided that I will not give DD rides for social purposes (school and activities are OK). A bus stops right by my house, so she can get anywhere that way. She just needs to look up the routes and take the extra time (and do some walking, sometimes in the rain, after spending lots of time with the straightening iron). I am a little concerned about the safety issue, but she’s almost an adult. I guess I need to let go. I so want to back down on this one, though.</p>
<p>Last time my DD had friends over she was very disrespectful to me and others in the family in front of them. So, as of now she may no longer entertain friends here until her attitude improves. </p>
<p>We also stopped giving her allowance, and she is down to zero money. She has asked for cash in return for chores (saying she will pay us back), then reneges. She complains the whole time she does chores and doesn’t really earn the money when we withhold it until she is finished. It ends up being a very painful experience. No more chores for money. So, she’ll have to get a job. And she is REALLY busy with the hardest classes, leadership positions, etc. etc. (even in the summer). She is on a good track (not a perfect kid, as she does break some rules as well, but is on a good track overall), but she is driving us nuts!</p>
<p>Her answer to all of this was “Fine”.</p>
<p>I think we are in a pushing match. AAARGHHHH! BTW, we do have an excellent relationship, and enjoy doing activities together. At least we did until a few days ago!</p>
<p>I really am trying to back off. Sometimes is is difficult to shape the strategy into specific action.</p>
<p>Hang in there, Spidey! You can do it.
I know it is cliche, but someday she WILL thank you for it.</p>
<p>SO your D is cutting her nose off to spite her face</p>
<p>Trick is stick by your rules and the consequences, they are not punishments, they are consequence of rude, obnoxious, cold and a mememe mind set</p>
<p>The friends not coming over, stick with that, but she can't just go off either</p>
<p>I have "talked" to my kids in front of their friends if they have been rude- ie not calling, being in a different place, keeping me waiting, and I don't worry about embarrassing them, if they didn't care enough about my waiting and worrying, I don't care about their precious feelings</p>
<p>btw, it only takes once of chewing them out in front of friends, and it doesn't happen again, and beleve me, i am not the only one</p>
<p>I think it is time to sit your D down, and as school is just starting, it is a perfect time to set parametors- your jobs on her behalf, her expectations and your, food, time, responsiblities, etc.</p>
<p>And tell her this is not a negotiable conversation, it will happen, and here are the two time options, pick one, and her behavior is unacceptable and you want to be very clear on what you, as the parent and a household member expect...and that she is to come to the table with what she wants, needs, will contribute, etc</p>
<p>Talk to your H ahead of time so you are on the same page, if other children are in the house, do the same thing with them</p>
<p>This, well, give them space, is all fine and dandy, but DON"T do it if they are rude, snooty, and cold, then you are giving in to bullying behavior</p>
<p>Why do we say, but they are grwoing up so they can be brats, but would you accept that same attitude from an 8 year old, an 11 year old?</p>
<p>I am not saying we have to get in all their business, but if they want to have some privacy and be treated with respect, they darn well better behave that way towards others, if they don't they don't deserve their space, they deserve to be treated like toddlers</p>
<p>Oh, spidey, that is an attitude (hers, not yours!) It makes me think of the terrible twos. We lived through those, and you'll live through this, too.</p>
<p>She sounds like she is out-of-balance with something, maybe stress or hormones. Back off for a few days, and start reintroducing favors gradually, based on her past actions. Saying, for example, "When that egg pan is cleaned I can give you a ride," will let her know what's expected.</p>
<p>At the beginning of every school year, we talk about the changes, the expectations, the rules, etc</p>
<p>This does not have to be confrontational at all, you just say, fresh year, you are now a JR, and you will be wanting to do xyz, and we are expection 123</p>
<p>What do you think is right and fair with regards to chores, etc, and if you don't do them in a timely fashion, what do you think our reaction should and will be</p>
<p>If she doesn't like your food, she can clean up her mess, what does she say about just leaving it like that?</p>