<p>Top publics by median SAT:</p>
<ol>
<li> William & Mary 1350</li>
<li> Cal/Berkeley 1345</li>
<li> Georgia Tech 1335</li>
<li> SUNY Geneseo 1325</li>
<li> UMichigan 1320</li>
<li> UCSD 1315</li>
<li> UVA 1310</li>
<li> UNC 1305</li>
<li> UCLA 1305</li>
<li>UIllinois 1290</li>
</ol>
<p>Can you elaborate a bit please nyccard?</p>
<p>Racially, ethnically, socioeconomically, etc.</p>
<p>As compared to what other top ten public schools? I think you'll find that Michigan isn't all that different than any of the others. For that matter I would assume, without real proof, that there are others in the top ten which are even more of what you call homogeneous than U-M.</p>
<p>rjkofnovi: I agree with you regarding PA. I think that it is the most important factor when looking at rankings, and I am grateful that those 2,000 or so academics take the time to let the students and their parents know what they think of the quality of education at all of these institutions. I would also like to see PA count for more in the rankings, because when selecting a college, that it such an important opinion to have.</p>
<p>Thanks for your support callie123. Whether some here want to accept it or not, often times perception is reality.</p>
<p>Except for California, most other states (with top publics) do not rule out race as a factor in admissions. In response, Berkeley and UCLA heavily considers socio-economic status and personal struggles and adversity in the application process. What has Michigan done accordingly? Other state schools also do not charge OOS students private school prices, like Michigan does.</p>
<p>Please show me some numbers of minority enrollment at the schools you're talking about to prove your point. Also, comments about other state schools not charging OOS students private school prices like Michigan seems a bit off the cuff. Can you please elaborate once again?</p>
<p>
[quote]
Anyway, two thousand academics are the last people that I would consider end all of reliable sources of measuring the usefulness of an education at different universities.
[/quote]
haha...yeaahhh and I guess you respect the opinions of anonymous posters on an internet message board more greatly...</p>
<p>Everyone here has an agenda.</p>
<p>As the mom of a U Mich student, I find the quality of the professors and academics there totally worth the OOS tuition. U Mich ranks high on many lists for a good reason and with the direction the U is going, I think it will only improve. </p>
<p>That being said, rankings lists are only useful as a point of reference. In reality, you will get a good education at any of the top 100 schools. What's important is determining which school has the best quality program in your area of concentration that you are accepted to.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Except for California, most other states (with top publics) do not rule out race as a factor in admissions...What has Michigan done accordingly?
[/quote]
For the record, Michigan was one of the first universities to embrace affirmative action. Michigan actively recruited Detroit inner city students more than 30 years ago... I know, 'cause I served on the Opportunity Program back then. Michigan went to the Supreme Court in 2003 to defend her right to consider race as a factor for admission, won one case and lost one.</p>
<p>The University of Michigan was forced to drop affirmative action when the state passed Proposition 2 two years ago. Michigan was the fourth state to do so, after California, Texas and Washington (all top publics).</p>
<p>Now please get your facts straight before you post.</p>
<p>
[quote]
What has Michigan done accordingly?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Are we talking about the University, as opposed to the entire state? Because in 2003, U-M added several demographic questions to its admissions application related to SES and included an essay where students were invited to discuss these issues. So that's been a part of admissions decisions for five years. It has also begun to use ETS' "Descriptor Plus" product, which helps it identify students who attend schools or live in neighborhoods which are underrepresented among U-M's student body. It's a legally-accepted and proactive way to identify students who aren't "typical" at U-M. I think this is the 3rd year of its use. M-Pact (low-income loan elimination fund) has been in effect for at least that long.</p>
<p>Ha, no, I don't care much for the anonymous poster's opinions either. The best thing is to look at all of the pieces put together that they use to create the rankings, which is why I focus on the end product of US News. I think you are trying to make too big of a thing over there PA scores, as they are obviously not even considered to be that significant when used to create rankings. Everyone does have an agenda, but you just make your agenda a little more open by supporting part of a ranking that lists your school as #1. </p>
<p>Rjkofnovi, yes, I went to Penn State University Park. You make that out as some kind of slight, but many people I knew at Penn State chose Penn State over Michigan. I am sure the same is true with Ohio State as well. You can get a great education at all three places, which is why they are all within 30 spots on us news. I am not sure where Hawkette went to school and it's not relevant where she went. You keep wanting her to say it so that you can be critical of wherever she went, even though her school has nothing to do with the facts she has presented about Michigan. You went to Michigan. Michigan, while harder to get into than Penn State, is not that hard to get into. Michigan is a safety school for many applicants, despite what you have argued on these threads. You need to get over youreslf.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Everyone does have an agenda, but you just make your agenda a little more open by supporting part of a ranking that lists your school as #1.
[/quote]
For the record, I like the PA. PA does not rank my school #1.
It happens to be #1 in the public category, that is if you look at PA on its own, or use the total USNWR methodology.</p>
<p>I do that jec7483 because it seems to me that the people online who are the most critical of Michigan go/went to schools which are NOT considered their academic peers. I have nothing against those schools, they are both fine institutions.</p>
<p>It's ok UCBChemEGrad. I will say it for you. You're school deserves its PA ranking and is the best public university in this country. It is way underrated by USNWR.</p>
<p>Btw jec7483, Michigan is within 26 spots of the top rated USNWR school in this country. Like that really matters. There is no even ordinal between school ratings in USNWR.</p>
<p>jec7483,
You should direct your post to gellino in post #101. He listed median SAT's of the 10 top publics and left out Penn State ... but included SUNY Geneseo, a regional school ranked only 11th in the North.</p>
<p>... happily fanning the fire.</p>
<p>SUNY Geneseo is probably the best SUNY school (for undergraduate teaching), I don't have a problem with it being mentioned in the same breath as Penn State. The only problem is that Geneseo and Penn State are 2 different types of schools</p>
<p>
[quote]
It's ok UCBChemEGrad. I will say it for you. You're school deserves its PA ranking and is the best public university in this country. It is way underrated by USNWR.
[/quote]
I thought Berkeley had lectures with 400+ students, graduate student instructors who barely speak English and teach all classes, a 90% Asian(-American) student body, separate departments and faculty for undergraduates and grad students, and no advising or research opportunities for undergrads. You mean to say this isn't true???</p>
<p><em>pours gasoline on fire</em></p>