<p>hehe. No that's what Michigan has. Just ask hawkette. I'm sure she'll concur.</p>
<p>"I do that jec7483 because it seems to me that the people online who are the most critical of Michigan go/went to schools which are NOT considered their academic peers. I have nothing against those schools, they are both fine institutions."</p>
<p>They reason people above you don't criticize you is because they don't want to waste time criticizing schools which they believe to be inferior. Just as you have said you don't go around Penn State threads because you believe Michigan to be better, the Ivy League alums and the Northwesterns, Duke, etc, feel they don't need to convince Michigan graduates of anything. They just believe they are better and don't need to waste the time. I'm sure you have a grasp on how that feels. </p>
<p>Don't worry GoBlue81, I saw that post #101, but I didn't pay much attention to it. I don't mind being briefly redirected. If I am not mistaken, I believe Geneseo is actually a public LAC, so I am not even sure why it's on that list. Plus, the fact that he puts it above UVA shows the ridiculousness of the list. Then again, he is only measuring by SAT scores, which I think is about as ridiculous as only measuring by the PA scores.</p>
<p>
[quote]
jec7483,
You should direct your post to gellino in post #101. He listed median SAT's of the 10 top publics and left out Penn State ... but included SUNY Geneseo, a regional school ranked only 11th in the North.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>SUNY Geneseo had a higher SAT than UMichigan too. I don't know what the basis is for ranking SUNY Geneseo #11 among master degree schools if that's the same list that usually has Villanova and Providence at the top, but it isn't by the caliber of the student body. Most of the rest of the factors are just subjective heresay to me. </p>
<p>Setting 25% of the rankings on the cumulative opinion of whether a Dean at Kansas thinks UIdaho or UKentucky is a better school seems ridiculous and wasn't something I was too concerned about in comparison to factors I considered much more relevant.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Plus, the fact that he puts it above UVA shows the ridiculousness of the list.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>The list is objective, irrefutable fact, as opposed most of this thread that is all just speculative opinion. There is nothing inherently better about UVA than SUNY Geneseo or no reason that SUNY Geneseo shouldn't be compared to UMichigan as being two top public schools even if the former doesn't have any PhD programs. We are talking about going to these schools for UG after all. </p>
<p>
[quote]
Then again, he is only measuring by SAT scores, which I think is about as ridiculous as only measuring by the PA scores.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Measuring a school by the caliber of its student body hardly seems ridiculous to me, especially in comparison to differentiating the top ~15 or so schools that could all have a median SAT over 1500 if they weren't trying to me other needs just as proactively (i.e. oboe and football players).</p>
<p>
[quote]
SUNY Geneseo had a higher SAT than UMichigan too.
[/quote]
What is the size difference between SUNY Geneseo and Michigan?</p>
<p>State University Of New York At Geneseo: 5,376 students total</p>
<h1>of applicants: 10,274</h1>
<p>% of applicants accepted: 36
% of acceptees attending: 28</p>
<h1>accepting a place on wait list: 320</h1>
<h1>of early decision applicants: 323</h1>
<p>% accepted early decision: 42
Range SAT Critical Reading: 600-690
Range SAT Math: 620-690
Range ACT Composite: 28-30
Average HS GPA: 3.8
% graduated top 10% of class: 57
% graduated top 25% of class: 88
% graduated top 50% of class: 99</p>
<p>University Of Michigan - Ann Arbor: 25,916 students total</p>
<h1>of applicants: 27,474</h1>
<p>% of applicants accepted: 50
% of acceptees attending: 43</p>
<h1>accepting a place on wait list: 2,067</h1>
<p>Range SAT Critical Reading: 590-690
Range SAT Math: 630-730
Range ACT Composite: 27-31
Average HS GPA: 3.72
% graduated top 10% of class: 92
% graduated top 25% of class: 99
% graduated top 50% of class: 100</p>
<p>Geneseo may have a higher test score but Michigan is more selective still</p>
<p>Not really jec7483. I don't hear that from them, because they know better. I hear it from you, because you don't.</p>
<p>
<p>U Michigan is not immune from what goes on in the larger world and these are large, probably irreversible, trends that will have broad impact. Things change and they evolve. IMO some major schools in the Sunbelt will benefit more in the future and if they hire the right leadership, I think that these schools can reach unexpectedly high levels of prominence.
</p>
<p>Au contraire, hawkette. Look, New England lost its manufacturing base 50 years ago and looked like it was spiraling into long-term secular decline; you could have made 4exactly these same statements about that region in the 1950s. But New England reinvented itself as a major center of educational and research excellence and the "new" knowledge-based economy, largely through its network of outstanding private educational institutions. The industrial Midwest needs to do the same kind of reinvention, but lacking the extensive network of private institutions that New England has, it will be the top-tier state institutions that must take the lead, partly through foresighted investments by their state legislatures, but mostly on their own initiative, with support from competitive research grants, public-private research partnerships, and enhanced contributions from their staggeringly enormous alumni networks, sleeping giants only now beginning to arouse themselves. </p>
<p>The University of Michigan, in particular, is moving forward aggressively with major new investments in cutting-edge research that will add hundreds of direct, high-end jobs and likely spin off even larger numbers of private sector jobs in the rapidly growing science-industrial sector blossoming in and near Ann Arbor. Not only is Ann Arbor a singular bright spot in Michigan's otherwise gloomy economy, its growth is a key to keeping the best and brightest college graduates in-state, where they can pay taxes and contributing to what everyone knows is a badly-needed New England-style makeover of the state's economy.</p>
<p>State</a> universities create jobs in down economy | The Michigan Daily</p>
<p>Thanks...Michigan is 5 times Geneseo's size.<br>
You can boost your average SAT easily when you have a small sample size.</p>
<p>that's true, but Geneseo is basically a LAC so there will be smaller classes there</p>
<p>"Not really jec7483. I don't hear that from them, because they know better. I hear it from you, because you don't."</p>
<p>hahaha, you really are ridiculous. Thanks for that.</p>
<p>University of California, Berkeley $59,900
Georgia Institute of Technology $58,300
Colorado School of Mines $58,100
Cal Poly San Luis Obispo $57,200
Missouri University of Science and Technology (Missouri S&T) $57,100
South Dakota School of Mines & Technology $55,800
Binghamton University $53,600
Virginia Tech $53,500
San Jose State University (SJSU) $53,500
University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign (UIUC) $52,900</p>
<p>Top 10 Schools by Starting Salary</p>
<p>ugg this is from the Forbes thing right? I'm pretty sure they didn't include every school in America</p>
<p>no its from a different site, and I went to every category to make sure all were accounted for. (forbes one excluded GT!)</p>
<p>I think he's citing this site: Top</a> State Universities, Top</a> Engineering Colleges, Top</a> Party Colleges</p>
<p>
[quote]
University of California, Berkeley $59,900
Georgia Institute of Technology $58,300
Colorado School of Mines $58,100
Cal Poly San Luis Obispo $57,200
Missouri University of Science and Technology (Missouri S&T) $57,100
South Dakota School of Mines & Technology $55,800
Binghamton University $53,600
Virginia Tech $53,500
San Jose State University (SJSU) $53,500
University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign (UIUC) $52,900
[/quote]
Translated: Engineers from engineering schools make good money. Surprise!</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>The other thing to keep in mind, hawkette, is that apart from the Left Coast, many "Sunbelt" states are low-tax, small-government havens which have never been inclined to provide generous taxpayer support to public education at any level, including higher education. In fact, while overall state spending on public higher education edged upward by 1% this year, many Southern states made deep cuts: South Carolina down 17.7%, Alabama down 10.5%, Florida down 8.8%, Tennessee down 6.7%, Texas down 4.7%, Kentucky down 2.2%. (Michigan was up 1.3%, Ohio up a whopping 9.3%). </p>
<p>A growing population leading to growing demand for places at the state flagship, coupled with a skinflint legislature, is no recipe for educational excellence. Quite the contrary. That's why you see student/faculty ratios like 22/1 at U Florida and Arizona State; 21/1 at Florida State; 18/1 at U Georgia, U Texas, U Oklahoma, and U Arizona; and 17/1 at U Kentucky and U Arkansas. The scarcity of resources keeps away (or drives away) the best faculty, limits research competitiveness, and for students means bloated class sizes, less faculty contact, and more classes taught by grad students. </p>
<p>Virginia and North Carolina are exceptions; they aim high and seem to put their money where their mouth is. But beyond that, and possibly U Texas, I don't see many "Sunbelt" schools outside the West Coast as rising stars on the academic horizon.</p>
<p>Virginia's and North Carolina's top schools are all on the small side. They don't have very large undergraduate student populations like those in the deep south, southwest, and midwest. While it's great to be a student at one of these schools, the state is not really educating a lot of it's residents at their top universities. That's fine too. Perhaps other states should do that as well to be able to boost their rankings in the USNWR since that is such a major factor with them.</p>
<p>^ When Hawkette talks about rising southern schools, she is mostly referring to the smaller privates...Rice, Vanderbilt, Duke, Wake Forest</p>
<p>
[quote]
Geneseo may have a higher test score
[/quote]
My math may not be what it used to be but it looks like something is wrong with this math:</p>
<p>SUNY Geneseo:
Range SAT Critical Reading: 600-690
Range SAT Math: 620-690</p>
<p>Michign:
Range SAT Critical Reading: 590-690
Range SAT Math: 630-730</p>
<p>Which one is higher again?</p>
<p>
[quote]
When Hawkette talks about rising southern schools, she is mostly referring to the smaller privates...Rice, Vanderbilt, Duke, Wake Forest
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I certainly wouldn't consider Duke to be a "rising southern school" -- it has been one of the top national universities for years and is ranked higher than some of the Ivies.</p>
<p>
[quote]
State University Of New York At Geneseo: 5,376 students total</p>
<h1>of applicants: 10,274</h1>
<p>% of applicants accepted: 36
% of acceptees attending: 28</p>
<h1>accepting a place on wait list: 320</h1>
<h1>of early decision applicants: 323</h1>
<p>% accepted early decision: 42
Range SAT Critical Reading: 600-690
Range SAT Math: 620-690
Range ACT Composite: 28-30
Average HS GPA: 3.8
% graduated top 10% of class: 57
% graduated top 25% of class: 88
% graduated top 50% of class: 99</p>
<p>University Of Michigan - Ann Arbor: 25,916 students total</p>
<h1>of applicants: 27,474</h1>
<p>% of applicants accepted: 50
% of acceptees attending: 43</p>
<h1>accepting a place on wait list: 2,067</h1>
<p>Range SAT Critical Reading: 590-690
Range SAT Math: 630-730
Range ACT Composite: 27-31
Average HS GPA: 3.72
% graduated top 10% of class: 92
% graduated top 25% of class: 99
% graduated top 50% of class: 100</p>
<p>Geneseo may have a higher test score but Michigan is more selective still
[/quote]
</p>
<p>The SUNY Geneseo range is 640-690M, 620-700CR. </p>
<p>Soemthing doesn't seem to jive with those numbers. Why would a school with a slightly higher median SAT have almost half as many students in the top 10% of their hs class. That doesn't seem possible to me.</p>