"Top student" at a 3rd tier school... Four years later

<p>Congratulations, psych_, and hope to see you in the conference rounds in the coming years :slight_smile: I’m a current (funded) psychology grad student at an Ivy with a story very similar to yours - turned down a top tier acceptance with no money to attend a second-tier LAC with a full ride, attended, thrived, and got into my current program. Now I have about $21K in total debt (affordable on any post-doc salary! - so I don’t have to worry about that when juggling career-changing options after I finish here), and I was just awarded an NSF GRF :slight_smile: You’re absolutely right, and I’m glad you shared your story; makes those of us advising kids not take on six-figure debt when they have a perfectly good scholarship at a perfectly good school look not so crazy anymore.</p>

<p>NEpop, I don’t think it’s not supportable. First of all, research has been done that shows that students who got into prestigious schools, but chose not to do go, do just as well on average as students who did end up there. Second of all, your circumstances weren’t luck. You did good work and your professor liked you because of that work. Professors don’t recommend people to others simply because they like their personality; their reputations are staked upon the success of the people they endorse. It’s also not coincidence or “luck” that your professor had a “friend” that happened to be a judge. Professionals make professional contacts in their fields; it’s part of working within the field. Law professors will probably know more than a few judges.</p>

<p>But your latter statement is not true. Top 20 law schools have students coming from all types of undergraduate backgrounds. They may have more students coming from top 20 schools, but that’s because more of those students are familiar with the top 20 law schools and have the desire and drive to go there. Most kids who go to regional public U probably have ambitions to get a degree and work in their local economy; few have grad school ambitions (or at least fewer than those at Harvard). That doesn’t mean that regional public U doesn’t have the potential for catapulting students as successfully into top tier law and medical schools. In fact, law schools don’t really care where you went to undergrad so much as they care about your LSAT scores and GPA.</p>

<p>Also, you are misinterpreting. No one is suggesting that where one goes to school does not have an impact upon one’s opportunities. In fact, psych_ noted the outstanding effect that the great preparation her 3rd tier school gave her was what helped propel her into her current success. I think her point, and the point of others who have echoed her, is that quantitative rankings like U.S. News are more or less arbitrary and that quantifying the “best” schools (an implicitly subjective term) is more or less useless. In addition to that, her point is that you can certain go to a 3rd tier school and do well - just like you did. The point is that what you do during your undergraduate years is far more important than where you go, necessarily. If you capture the attention of people who can help you you will get the support that you need to get there.</p>

<p>And check your school’s professor PhDs and JD origination sometimes. Because there are far fewer faculty positions than there are PhDs, you often see PhDs from great graduate programs teaching at schools that are considered “lesser.” Being a graduate student myself, I know that the only thing that drives a recent PhD’s selection of workplace is not prestige; there are other factors involved. (In fact, I know most of the people I talk to in my program do NOT want jobs like my Ivy League professors’ jobs.)</p>

<p>(And of course top law schools feed more people into top jobs, but no one is arguing that graduate school name doesn’t matter in the job market. It matters exponentially more than undergraduate school.)</p>

<p>Can someone provide in this thread a list of "3rd tier public OOS " or any third tier schools that would fit what was being talked about here? My son , a top HS jr starting his college search , asked me today what colleges give good merit aid. I did not know what to say. I think I saw in a cc thread that u of alabama gave good merit aid. I think he said he did not want someplace too hot. picky picky :)</p>

<p>so give us the big list and maybe he might learn to like the heat - if it makes cents :)</p>

<p>There are threads about this. Many schools give great aid just for certain SAT or ACT scores & good GPA.</p>

<p>If he ends up being a National Merit Finalist, he can actually get a free ride at places like Univ of Cincinnati, Arizona, Oklahoma…there are others…we got mailers but ignored them cause we knew about UC and it’s right in town! But I imagine other people might LIKE to go to Arizona or Oklahoma. ;)</p>

<p>What you do is pick the “3rd tier” school that is excellent in the field YOU want. Doesn’t matter about anything else. Get the money and you’re set. :)</p>

<p>Is ‘3rd tier school’ from the USNEWs rankings - I seem to recall that term used there - or just a generic term for ‘not prestigious’ or acceptance rate higher than… what, 70 pct?</p>

<p>couple peope on Yahoo answers had this question…
[What</a> does third tier mean? - Yahoo! Answers](<a href=“Yahoo | Mail, Weather, Search, Politics, News, Finance, Sports & Videos”>Yahoo | Mail, Weather, Search, Politics, News, Finance, Sports & Videos)
[What</a> is a “third tier” college? - Yahoo! Answers](<a href=“Yahoo | Mail, Weather, Search, Politics, News, Finance, Sports & Videos”>Yahoo | Mail, Weather, Search, Politics, News, Finance, Sports & Videos)</p>

<p>here is USNews’ list of best national universities, third tier…</p>

<p>[Looking</a> for an Out-of-State Public University? - US News and World Report](<a href=“http://www.usnews.com/articles/education/2009/11/19/looking-for-an-out-of-state-public-university.html?PageNr=2]Looking”>http://www.usnews.com/articles/education/2009/11/19/looking-for-an-out-of-state-public-university.html?PageNr=2)</p>

<p>I notice that US news breaks out the pctge of in state and OOS students for each school listed. I am not sure what that means academically. I guess it measures the extent to which OOS students avail themselves of the college.</p>

<p>and here is USNEWS list of third tier LACs…</p>

<p>[Liberal</a> Arts Rankings - Best Colleges - Education - US News and World Report](<a href=“http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/liberal-arts-rankings/page+6]Liberal”>http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/liberal-arts-rankings/page+6)</p>

<p>The biggest criteria for being labeled a “third tier” school seems to be peer evaluation. Graduation and retention rates are also weighed heavily. We visited a few highly ranked as well as a few third tier schools. In general, the third tier schools seemed to have less energy and campus spirit. Enthusiasm and friendliness was not as as apparent. We were on each campus for several hours. Third tier did not have the same nice atmosphere but … having said that, they were still somewhat impressive in their own way.</p>

<p>Congratulations psych_, although I would like to be one of these posters saying “yeah way to go this is totally like me,” I’m actually (somewhat) in the opposite boat. I will be attending the University of Michigan in the fall with no scholarships or aid from the institution over Michigan State University, which has a cheaper cost of attendance and I got $6,000 per year with a guaranteed professorial assistanceship. I’m studying biomedical engineering with a hope of attending medical school and I just felt that UMich would just give me a more educationally stimulating environment, more opportunites for internships and whatnot, with a world-class engineering education, while challenging me while I could probably just coast along at State without as good of preparation. </p>

<p>Although this is a slightly different situation from most stories (if I got a straight full ride from State, no doubt I would have accepted it, I just thinked that a roughly 8-9K difference wasn’t worth the dip in education in the scheme of things), it is still somewhat opposite and I hope it goes well! Haha</p>

<p>thank you. i really appreciate this. You don’t know how much this has been bothering me.</p>

<p>I have no idea about tier of D’s UG state school. We have never looked at any rankings. She is graduating in couple weeks and is somewhat sad. She will miss her UG campus. Otherwise, she has no reasons to be sad. She is gong to Med. School, she had awesome choices and had hard time deciding, but leanning towards one of them. The positive outcomes of her UG education goes way beyond being accepted to several Med. Schools and it went well beyond our family expectaions. D. graduated #1 at her private prep. HS and has been on full tuition Merit scholarship at her UG. Many of her pre-med friends also have been accepted to top Medical Schools and have been very happy with their UG experiences.</p>

<p>Last year, when my son was 18 and a high school senior, he said to me, “it does not matter where you go to school, what matters is when you graduate, you are good at whatever you do”. This level of maturity at such a young age floored me.
…He turned down a much more prestigious public institution in our state, to attend a public out of state school that was better for his major…When people hear where he attends, they assume it is a party school and he must not be getting a good education, when in fact he has already had so many opportunities at this so called “party school” in his major than he would ever have had at the other university.<br>
My son is a bright, hard-working young man and he will do well. But even he knew at 18 that where you attend school does not define who you are as a person,or what kind of success in your career you will obtain.</p>

<p>Rousse - Sounds like my son’s story. It was an out-of-state party school, but had EXACTLY the major (and the honors program) that was a best fit for him.</p>

<p>…Particular fields value an Ivy education more than others – for instance, Goldman Sachs will recruit heavily at Harvard but not at Ohio State…</p>

<p>Considering how GS melted down during the last financial crises, maybe they should have gone with OSU grads?</p>

<p>soccerdude, have you ever stopped to consider what else those Ivy grads could be doing? Finally, thank heavens, it seems like the students themselves are waking up to this idea.</p>

<p>[Stopping</a> The ‘Brain Drain’ Of The U.S. Economy : NPR](<a href=“Stopping The 'Brain Drain' Of The U.S. Economy : NPR”>Stopping The 'Brain Drain' Of The U.S. Economy : NPR)</p>

<p>This is an old, old thread. the OP is doing well, fromlast they posted.</p>

<p>2010 thread but still valuable info from OP’s experience.</p>

<p>Very grateful you pulled this up, SLUMOM…D may be taking this route and it’s VERY valuable to see how it turned out for one student.</p>

<p>So glad I read this!</p>

<p>So glad this popped back to the active level. Great story. There is soooooo much fear, sooo much self doubt, soooooo much weight put on the proper bumper sticker that it becomes difficult not to get sucked into the panic vortex. Being smart enough in HS to make the decision the OP did simply bodes will for a person. I think it falls into the ‘emotional intelligence’ department which IMHO is an often overlook quality.</p>

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<p>This is where the emotional intelligence and maturity comes into play. The right individual will find their tribe in almost any environment.</p>

<p>I’d love to hear back from the OP, but I guess s/he’s busy with a fabulous career by now :)</p>

<p>Due to some unexpected factors (changes in the availability of mentorship from some key faculty as well as changes in my career goals), I ended up deciding to apply elsewhere to continue on towards my PhD, after earning my Masters this year. This is not meant in any way to diminish the quality of my first grad school or program. IIndeed, I could have stayed here and strongly considered it–but ultimately chose not to. Furthermore, I firmly believe the training here has been excellent, especially the research training, and I’ve had some amazing (and nationally renowned) professors and mentors here. Furthermore, I’ve gotten several publications out of my time here–and have several more in the pipeline–something I attribute to the excellent research mentorship I’ve received both here and in undergrad. And yes, I’m still in touch with my amazing undergrad mentor/PI. My time here hasn’t always been easy (welcome to grad school :wink: ), but it prepared me well for my next steps and really helped me further grow as a scholar and person. For what it’s worth, I feel that my undergrad experiences and education were equal to–if not better then, at least in some areas–that of my peers, and that’s saying something.</p>

<p>Today, I’m happy to say I accepted an offer to a <em>very</em> well-regarded PhD program in my field, with an amazing funding package to boot. It has a very strong emphasis on and commitment to making sure students are well-prepared for the academic job market and a great mentor in my main area of research interest. :slight_smile: Not to mention, it’s in what is probably my favorite (absolutely gorgeous) area of the country and closer to family and life-long friends. I’ll miss some people and projects here, but I’m also eager to get started on this new phase in my education and life.</p>

<p>This isn’t where I expected my life to be two years ago, and admittedly, it hasn’t been without its stumbling blocks. Full disclosure: Neither time I applied to grad school did I get in everywhere I applied. With that said, I feel lucky–and honored–to have gotten in excellent PhD programs with excellent funding, not once but twice. I really do credit my undergrad institution for giving me amazing opportunities that I have been able to build upon continuously. Also, remembering that school isn’t all about academics, the friends I made in college have continued to be an incredible support system these past few years, through both good and rough times. :slight_smile: I’m very grateful to that institution and very proud to have its name on my CV and its presence in my life.</p>