<p>Thank you so much for sharing the great news! :)</p>
<p>Psych ā curious do you have to pay current school any tuition now that you are leaving only after Masters? Its my understanding schools only offer funding for PhDā¦so what happens when you leave early? And congrats on your move up in the PhD ladder.</p>
<p>nepop
</p>
<p>But always rememberā¦luck follows the prepared mind. It only takes you so far. One has to be able to recognized āluckā when it is put in ones path. One has to be able to accommodate āluckā when it arrives at inopportune times. One has to be willing and able to accept āluckā and run with it. So, while āchanceā is random, one often has influence over oneās āluckā. IMHO of course.</p>
<p>2b:</p>
<p>Nope! No money owed.</p>
<p>psych_ - I came to this thread on the recommendation of happymomof1 and mom2collegekids and Iām certainly glad for the reference. What a great thread and I too am glad itās back. The message from your original post seems at first to be a hard one for my son to get his head around but we only very recently came to this vast and wonderful pool of parent grads from the U chase. Iām going to have him read through both early and recent posts here.</p>
<p>I guess my main reaction overall is disappointment. Nothing new to this crowd Iām sure but still. Heās a junior in the testing cycle, very good numbers, very challenging courses, not 4.0/2400/36 stats but a really compelling hook for his essays. So - and especially with the advice from CC - heās applying to a broad range; a couple of reaches, a couple of should-get-in-but-can-we-afford-it schools with iffy FA odds, and a couple of academic and financial safeties.</p>
<p>But why is this all SO much harder than it was when I went through it. Iām talking about at a macro scale. Is it that there are just a lot more kids in the pool, both from the US and from overseas? Back in the coal-fired days when I was applying, I was the tail end of the Baby Boom, so I know todayās heightened competitiveness is not a result of there being drastically more kids applying. Is there so much grade inflation that what appears stellar is really the norm from olden days?</p>
<p>Iām reminded of a scene from The West Wing (my favorite show). Josh and Toby come upon a regular guy, Matt Kelley, in a hotel bar in Indiana, a guy whoās just taken his daughter to look at Notre Dame. The market took a dive that day and Matt is down wondering how the hell heās going to pay for college. He says that putting your kid through college is a real accomplishment, his job, ābutā¦it ought to be a little easier. Just a little. Because in that difference isā¦everything.ā Heās worked a decent job, as has his wife, but he knows that one stumble, on slip on the sidewalk, and itās for naught.</p>
<p>Thatās how I feel. And Iām wondering why it seems so much harder - or is it just that my folks did a better job of hiding that from me? I think not. It seems to me (warning: political view) that the 1% are consolidating their turf. The full-pay kids who were decently smart - or even not really (GWB) - always had the Ivies. But now they can also can go to whatever OOS state flagship they want - schools which have all gotten even better over time it seems - and the rest of us have trouble even wanting to cross state lines.</p>
<p>I was fortunate - but it felt normal. I went to UVA, then the bargain of the East Coast and a true state flagship school. Today - no way. State support like all State Uās has been drained away, driving up costs. Plus I wouldnāt make it in anyway now, and couldnāt afford it OOS if I did. Why such a dramatic shift? Where are the numbers of amazing applicants, filling all of these slots, coming from? There are more schools and bigger enrollments at most schools, so it canāt just be about population growth.</p>
<p>Which is why this thread is important.</p>
<p>Parents need to know that there are work-arounds, that there are ways to avoid getting left out by a system that seems more optimized than ever for the Other Golden Rule (he who has the gold makes the rules). Otherwise weād all go crazy (or worse) from anxiety and despair at opportunities we always thought our kids would be able to reach for. So thank you for reviving it. Tell the other parents you know; there are ways and there are people out there who want to help, whoāve been there.</p>
<p>Congrats psych_ on your success so far! And thanks to everyone who has shared their stories in this thread! (Feel free to skip to the last paragraph now)</p>
<p>Iām in the process of applying to college, and itās been quite a confusing and frustrating process; almost everyone (students and especially the parents) at my high school is obsessed with rankings and prestige and such, and Iāve been finding it hard not to think the same way. (I admit, for a while, I based my opinions of colleges only on college brochures and the US News & World Report rankingsā¦)</p>
<p>After considerable discussion with my parents, we ended up deciding that it was completely fine for me to attend a UC (most of which are really good schools AND are highly ranked, but donāt inspire the same āwow you must be amazing and youāre guaranteed to succeed in lifeā in the eyes of some of my peers) and, if I wanted to go to grad school, to apply to āeven-betterā schools then. That helped me eliminate almost of the East Coast schools in my stack of brochures. But I still hung on to a few, not sure if I should just apply anyway and see what happens.</p>
<p>(Hm, Iām not sure why Iām telling this long and boring story which is probably not spinning out very well. I hope my application essays will be better.) Anyways, reading the OPās and othersā stories has confirmed my decision to just stick to applying to the UCs, plus one high-reach, blissful-dream school (Stanfordā¦) and POSSIBLY one OOS, and not waste my money on applying to Ivies and other prestigious privates. Although my family is affluent enough to get almost no FA from any school, weāre still extremely money-consciousā¦ SO after reading this thread, I feel much better about not wasting tens of thousands of dollars in college app fees and tuition.</p>
<p>In summary, thanks to everyone who contributed to this thread, youāve helped a lot 
Time to share this thread with some of my friends.</p>
<p>Re: #186</p>
<p>UCs are good choices for California residents.</p>
<p>However, if you are in a no-financial-aid situation, you may want to note that some good state universities have out-of-state list prices which are similar to or even slightly lower than the list prices of UCs. Examples include Minnesota, Virginia Tech, and NCSU. If your major is engineering, Cal Poly SLO is also a good choice which is less expensive due to being a CSU.</p>
<p>I really appreciated the original post. I have received a full ride to the University of Hawaii at Manoa and have applied to very good universities on the mainland. I believe I am going to take the full ride because I think an education is what you make of it. One can go to Harvard and still lose motivation, and even at a third-tier university you can cultivate a breadth of knowledge.</p>
<p>So glad this thread was revived. DS is still waiting for several admissions decisions. He has two great options already on the table. One is to an OOS non-flagship University, probably 2nd tier. (depends on whoās doing the rating and their own personal bias - right ;)). Anywayā¦he received the maximum scholarship $$ which can be given to an OOS kid. Heās also been accepted into the honors college which is one of only a handful that grants an honors Baccalaureate degree. This University has a āhiddenā study abroad program designed for his specific major which will allow him to spend a year in Germany. They had also invited him to apply for an internship program which guarantees two 6 month paid internships over the course of his studies. And, he loves the look and feel of the place. </p>
<p>While he is still waiting on his reach and āstatusā schools, the thought of paying full price at any of these is hard to justify. DS had an internship this past summer with a very well know government research institution - think going to the moon. As an incoming HS senior he had a chance to work among some of the best and brightest UGās, grad students and PhDās in the making. And, guess whatā¦they came from all over the country. From schools that would probably generate an eye roll or a bit of a look down the nose by USNWR snobs. So, yes, it is the student.</p>
<p>Congrats to the OPā¦if you are still ālisteningā. By recognizing the long term effect of a large loan, by not running with the pack and by making a very intelligent and well thought out decision, youāve already āprovedā your abilities. Thank you for stating clearly what some of us know but still feel we need to justify.</p>
<p>Bumping up this thread in case its of any use to people who, like me 7 (!) years ago, wait until April 30 to pick their school. ;)</p>
<p>In case anyone is curious, Iām really liking my new PhD programāit seems like it will be a very sold fit for my career goals, which was a primary reason for leaving my other program. 
Speaking again to the education that I received at my undergrad, Iāll say that one thing that I continue to find remarkable about my experience there was what a good model of mentorship and collaboration it was. In fact, Iām still collaborating on articles with my PI from undergrad as well as faculty and colleges from my first grad school. This isnāt something Iāve seen with my cohortmates, and I think that itās been invaluable in networking and building a research agenda and background, and itās something that I increasingly appreciate from my undergrad experience. Of course, like any college or university, my undergrad university was and is far from perfect and not every student has a great experience there. However, the further out I get from my time there, the more I can appreciate how well the experience prepared me for grad school, in addition to the wonderful friends (some of who I remain in close contact with and hope will be lifelong friends) and non-academic memories I have from college. :)</p>
<p>All great to hear, thanks for letting us know! :)</p>
<p>Wow! This is an amazing thread. It really gives me hope that attending my flagship (likely for little or no cost at all) will be an okay decision in terms of future graduate program acceptance. This thread needs to be read by all those students that are considering taking out 100k+ in loans to finance their undergrad education. Congrats on your wonderful accomplishments! :)</p>
<p>One of my friends had a D who got into a UC (Irvine or Riverside, I think), which she attended with a Regents scholarship. She was admitted and courted by all of the top 3 PhD programs in her field and will be getting her PhD this spring from Cornell, #1 program in her field. UCs are good schools but not necessarily considered THE TOP. She is getting significant offers of post docs on the East Coast, where she plans to relocate.</p>
<p>She worked very hard and has gone very far. The val at our sonās elite HS went to UH Manoa on a regents scholarship (no tuition). She stayed an extra year doing research and recently completed her 1st year at Mayo Medical School, tuition free! Her parents are thrilled!</p>
<p>Our S chose his U by where he could get at least a significant merit award. He was able to get great internships and received 3 excellent job offers by SR year of college. Has been working at one of them for 2.5 years now.</p>
<p>There are many opportunities for those who are willing to work for them, even if they may not attend ādreamā undergrad U.</p>
<p>Bumping this thread up for decision time. It is interesting to note that I am still collaborating with some of the people I worked with as an undergrad (we have manuscripts published, in press, and under review)āsomething that doesnāt seem all too common. It really did have an incredibly formative effect on me academically, and it provided me with many wonderful friends and wonderful memories. Although it wasnāt all sunshine and roses (are any four years, really?), I canāt imagine myself going anywhere else.</p>
<p>thank you for this post :)</p>
<p>This was an amazing post so relevant for me at this time of the year. Thanks again. </p>
<p>Not to be the debby-downer of this thread, but where you go undergrad does matter. It can largely shape a personās perception of you. If two people apply to a job, and one is from Harvard, while the other is from Utah State, who do you think the employer would hire? Where you get admitted in undergrad is a likely indication of your potential ability. It takes into account your ability of leadership, academics, community service, etc. A kid who went to Harvard generally speaking has more talents and qualities than someone from a school like Utah State. At my high school, kids who end up going to schools like Boston University or Penn State are laughed at. My friends actually made fun of me for getting accepted to University of Pittsburgh >_></p>
<p>If my parents refused to pay my tuition for a prestigious school, I would cut off contact (maybe not that extreme, but my respect for them would go down). As a parent, it is there duty to provide resources so that their children can succeed to the best of their abilities. If I am forced to go to some joke school like University of Alabama because my parents are being cheap, then I would automatically be at a disadvantage in the hiring process. </p>
<p>"Point of this post is not arrogance but simply to show that a student, including a ātopā student, can have an enjoyable experience and successful grad school admissions outcome coming from a (gasp!) third tier school. "
- It is a well known fact and reality for many who are planning on Grad. School. Why spend $$ on UG education in this case?
However, there are fields where prestige/name is important, and unfortunately those who are choosing to be in these type of career cannot afford going to no-name UG.
Fortunately for our family, we do not have any of these, our careers are in Engineering, CS, Business, Graphic Design, Medicine. No need for UG name recognition in any of these. I am not familiar with any others. </p>
<p>
Just curious, are you a parent, or a child who is applying (or has applied) to college?</p>
<p>Well, I think even if you are a parent, this kind of post may get on the nerve on some other parents who may have a different āopinionā.</p>
<p>@mcat2 Currently applying to college. Seriously, the next four years of college will determine the direction of my life. Of course parents should make some financial sacrifices to give their kid the best advantage. I will do the same for my kid, even if I have to sell my house. </p>