<p>the top ten overall public universities…</p>
<p>Top Tier: Berkeley, Michigan</p>
<p>Second Tier: UCLA, UNC, Texas, Wisconsin</p>
<p>Third Tier: Georgia Tech, Illinois, Penn State, UVa</p>
<p>You guys forget about Cornell University. It is a quasi public/private university and an Ivy no less. How about University of Pennsylvania, just kidding.</p>
<p>Why is UVa getting rated so low?? I’m from Atlanta and people choose UVa over Duke, Northwestern, Vanderbilt, etc. UVa is much harder to get into from out of state than all of the schools mentioned above besides Berkeley and maybe UCLA.</p>
<p>^^ because UVa overall doesn’t have strong graduate programs like the other schools. </p>
<p>UVa is an excellent school for undergraduate study, but I personally wouldn’t attend there for graduate school when other publics have stronger and wider variety of programs.</p>
<p>Cornell is considered a private university by most publications. It is not a public flagship university.</p>
<p>and tenis, where is W&M? it is arguable the most selective public, has one of the lowest student to faculty ratios, has amazing law and medical school acceptance rates (higher average LSAT scores than UVA, Michigan, and Berkeley), top programs in government, history, and international relations, and is considered a public ivy…? am i missing something</p>
<p>^Presumably, this size-measuring contest takes both undergraduate and graduate programs into account, the latter in which W&M is lacking.</p>
<p>“Tiering” the public universities doesn’t serve much purpose.</p>
<p>For instance, by prestige: Tier 1 Harvard; Tier 2 Yale, Princeton; Tier 3 Columbia, Cornell, Penn; Tier 4 Dartmouth, Brown.</p>
<p>They’re all fine schools, and public schools. Prestige isn’t really the first thing that comes to mind when one has to attend a public school. Usually, it’s: oh, thank goodness, I’m saving my family X amount of money while getting a decent education at the same time.</p>
<p>
More like this: </p>
<ol>
<li><p>UC-Berkeley 4.7
[big gap]</p></li>
<li><p>Michigan 4.4</p></li>
<li><p>Virginia 4.3</p></li>
<li><p>UCLA 4.2</p></li>
<li><p>North Carolina; Wisconsin 4.1</p></li>
<li><p>Georgia Tech; Illinois 4.0 </p></li>
<li><p>Texas 3.9</p></li>
<li><p>William and Mary; Penn St.; UC-Davis; UC-San Diego; Washington 3.8</p></li>
</ol>
<p>;)</p>
<p>William & Mary</p>
<p>UVirginia
UCalifornia
UMichigan</p>
<p>UNorth Carolina
UCLA
Ga Tech</p>
<p>USNWR PA is exhibit A for silliness of rankings.</p>
<p>
What about Verbal SAT score? Aren’t communication “skills” important? :)</p>
<p>
Uh, USNWR surveyed academics to list universities that have a strong dedication to undergrad teaching. </p>
<p>Best Colleges: Undergraduate Teaching at National Universities
Best Undergraduate Teaching</p>
<p>Dartmouth College Hanover, NH 1<br>
Princeton University Princeton, NJ 2<br>
Yale University New Haven, CT 3<br>
Stanford University Stanford, CA 4<br>
University of Maryland–Baltimore County Baltimore, MD 4<br>
Brown University Providence, RI 6<br>
College of William and Mary Williamsburg, VA 6<br>
Duke University Durham, NC 8<br>
Miami University–Oxford Oxford, OH 8<br>
University of Notre Dame Notre Dame, IN 8<br>
Bowling Green State University Bowling Green, OH 11<br>
Howard University Washington, DC 11<br>
Rice University Houston, TX 11<br>
University of California–Berkeley Berkeley, CA 11<br>
University of Chicago Chicago, IL 11<br>
University of Michigan–Ann Arbor Ann Arbor, MI 11<br>
University of North Carolina–Chapel Hill Chapel Hill, NC 11</p>
<p>swish, so your biased opinion is better than the collective opinion of 2,000 academics?</p>
<p>What if I want to major in chemical engineering? Is W&M the “best” for me?</p>
<p>re: posts #16 and #29</p>
<p>I like SAT scores because they measure the quality of the student body (selectivity, which is a major factor affecting the undergrad experience).</p>
<p>SAT scores are highly correlated with almost all other measures of quality, such as faculty, research, resources. SAT scores serve as a proxy for other factors.</p>
<p>SAT scores are standardized, which is why I prefer them to HS gpa and class rank.</p>
<p>Yes, verbal skills are important. I like the math SAT because I think the verbal is affected by the percentage of international students. Engineering programs tend to have a lot of international students which would place schools with large engineering programs at a disadvantage.</p>
<p>I like the 25th percentile math because it measures how deeply schools reach into their applicant pool.</p>
<p>I like the objectivity of SAT scores. </p>
<p>To be honest, if I had to choose based on my gut feeling, I would select Berkeley or Michigan as the top public universities. My ranking based on SAT math 25th percentile yields some surprises (Maryland, SUNY Binghamton). But, I trust the SAT scores. Maybe the surprises tend to be underrated.</p>
<p>I also tend to have a lot of faith in the US News peer assessment rating. But I think it is affected by research prowess which is not irrelevant for undergrad education but which is more important for graduate education.</p>
<p>^ So why not a combination of the 25 percentile math and verbal?</p>
<p>^That would be a good way to rank (math and verbal) but I prefer math alone because international students are at a disadvantage on the verbal section. (Although many international students do very well on verbal)</p>
<p>"Why is UVa getting rated so low?? I’m from Atlanta and people choose UVa over Duke, Northwestern, Vanderbilt, etc. UVa is much harder to get into from out of state than all of the schools mentioned above besides Berkeley and maybe UCLA. "</p>
<p>Because many people confuse selectivity and quality. There is a relationship but not causation.</p>
<p>
You listed the wrong number for Berkeley. It is 640.</p>
<p>UC Berkeley is the best public university in America, period.</p>
<p>barrons, I would say that student quality is the most important aspect of overall quality. I think you are equating research with quality. Research is certainly an important aspect of quality but student quality (selectivity) is most important. What’s more, student quality and research quality and resources quality tend to go hand-in-hand.</p>
<p>Professor, the numbers come from the US Department of Education as reported by UC Berkeley. The math SAT 25th percentile has been 620 for three straight years. Where did you get 640?</p>
<p>To be honest, I don’t think the difference between 620 and 640 is fundamentally significant although it could affect the ranking I posted.</p>
<p>Math SAT scores aren’t a great indicator for an institution’s overall strength. UNC-Chapel Hill doesn’t draw many engineers, for example, because the state chose to make NC State North Carolina’s primary public engineering school. I’d imagine that there is a similar relationship in Virginia between UVa/W&M and VPI.</p>
<p>Yes, most top professors also do good research but they are often great at more than one thing too as they are very accomplished interesting people. And they are the ones at the from of the class.</p>