<p>My D brought it up over break that she was considering transferring. She's a freshman at a top LAC. I told her that many kids think that at this point, but go back and see what you think 2nd semester. Her grades are great, she's doing outside activities, she's made the early friends. Her situation is that she's a bit of a homebody and the kids there are always out and drinking and she's gotten a bit mocked for not wanting to go out all of the time. I've told her it may settle down after freshman year, but she still wants to look.
So, she graduated top 15 kids in her competitive HS, her ACT score was 31 or 32, she likes small classes, I'd like her to be somewhere where the kids are still in dorms to meet kids and a strong Jewish population. She's up north now where it's bitter cold in an isolated small village (not even a town...) She's probably pre-law, majoring now in English and History.
Any ideas?</p>
<p>Brandeis is first school that comes to mind. There is a drinking group, but also religious kids that would stand apart from that.Certainly kids inbetween. Near Boston--plenty to do</p>
<p>I think Brandeis is a good suggestion; also Clark U.</p>
<p>"She's up north now where it's bitter cold in an isolated small village (not even a town...)"</p>
<p>Where is she now, so we don't suggest schools that have similar characteristics? (I'm guessing it's my alma mater, but I shouldn't make assumptions.)</p>
<p>If she likes the LAC size, then she could simply transfer to one that is known to have fewer drunks. Some of them are known for heavy drinking ("work hard/play hard" is the euphemism) others are not.</p>
<p>With a semester of good grades under her belt and a very specific reason for the transfer (to find a school that is more interested in academics than booze), she would probably have good transfer options, perhaps even upgrade options.</p>
<p>The three Philadelphia area LACs (Swarthmore, Haverford, Bryn Mawr) would be worth considering. All three have significantly less of a booze emphasis that the up-state NY and New England historically male colleges. All three of these have significant and prominent Jewish populations. All three have nearly 100% dorm living with much of the social scene revolving around dorm life. All of the all-female colleges would also fit the bill (Smith, Wellesley, etc.)</p>
<p>If she wants closer to home, some of the Midwest schools have fewer drunks than the upstate NY and New England schools. I haven't specifically researched them, but I'd certainly give Grinnell and Oberlin a look.</p>
<p>A lot of problems like your daughter's could be avoided if USNEWS would start including the surveyed binge drinking rate in their data charts for each school and overall rankings. Then, potential customers could see that some schools have double the number of drunks than other schools and make an informed decision about which environment they prefer.</p>
<p>Fourkidsmom: Your daughter's situation sounds similar to my daughter's two years ago. After her freshman year she transferred from Colgate to Wash U, where she is very happy. Many schools have March 15 transfer application deadlines, so your daughter should get in gear right away: Although transfer requirements vary from school to school, she'll need to have college and high school transcripts sent, probably get a recommendation from one of her current profs, and prepare new apps. If she's planning to apply to schools she applied to as a high school senior, she may not have to jump through every single hoop again; some schools reactivate portions of the original app. But she should definitely craft an essay/cover letter explaining why she wants to transfer (without bashing her current school) and why she'd be an asset at College X. Even though she's on the fence about transferring, I would encourage her to go through the transfer process. Then, at the end of the semester, she'll be able to make the decision whether she wants to leave her current school. If she takes no action, the decision is made for her.</p>
<p>As for schools, Barnard is an LAC with a great Jewish community. Haverford has a large Jewish population, but I'm not certain how active the Hillel is, if that's an important consideration. I second the recommendation to look at Brandeis. Another small university with an active Jewish community and an LAC-esque feel is Tufts. Tufts is also transfer-friendly (an important consideration – you can take a look at the common data sets or US News premium edition for info on the number of transfer students a particular school accepts in a given year. Some take very few, and it’s not worth the effort to apply to a school that accepts virtually no transfers.) Also, if she’s willing to venture into the Midwest, Wash U is a great choice, and Northwestern is worth considering. If she’s on the artsy side, Oberlin has a wonderful Jewish community.</p>
<p>I recommend checking any college or uni online with "Hillel Guide to Jewish Life on Campus"
<a href="http://www.hillel.org/HillelApps/JLOC/Search.aspx%5B/url%5D">http://www.hillel.org/HillelApps/JLOC/Search.aspx</a>
If the above link doesn't connect for you, please google up the words. CC is kind enough to publish the book name on its front page, but it's out of print so hard to get by Amazon.com
Either way, an old copy or the online up-to-date statistics, will tell you ver helpful statistics. Numbers, percentages of Jewish kids but more importantly, how active is the Hillel, how many services (which denominations), Jewish courses, majors, minors. Then go to each campus website and get a sense of the tone of the Hillel, contact e-mails for the leaders and so on. Whether they meet for bagels or do helpful projects for children in the college town, these could certainly be a source for friendships on her old or new campus.
That said, if she has an option at her old or new campus to transfer housing to a substance-free dorm, she might be much happier. Talk with her about whether there's any possibility of choosing her own "social center of gravity" where people do productive things and then put on some blinders about others' lesser choices.
In any institution there's a tipping point, however, and if toooo many kids drink and it's consider goofy not to, then it's really unfortunate. Even on the campus where she transfers, there will be some behaviors she dislikes but if they are fewer in number, or students have an ethic (as they do at Oberlin, very explicitly, the kids themselves will tell you) that each person chooses a lifestyle and we do not make or break friends over those choices, then at least you have an attitude of tolerance. Perhaps that's what she's looking for: not where everyone does or doesn't do as she will, but where there's much less peer judgment about who's "in" or "out" based on that choice.
You obviously raised a fine daughter who wants a real education. Bravo.</p>
<p>We were in a very similar situation at this time last year with our daughter. She was also a freshman at an excellent LAC in a rural location, had made many friends, gotten involved with things, and was doing great in her classes. We thought she was very happy, but she unexpectely told us that she was miserable, primarily because so much of the social life revolved around heavy drinking parties, which are not her idea of fun. She VERY outgoing, is not a "homebody" or a prude, but likes to have fun in other ways than getting drunk. She said that the other social activities, like movies or whatever, were over very early on the weekend evenings, and she would be alone studying while others were out at the drinking parties. I have heard similar stories from parents of other non-heavy drinking kids at this school, who did not transfer but found other ways to cope with this. </p>
<p>She loved the academic atmosphere at her LAC (small classes, knowing her professors, etc.) and applied to transfer to two LACs which are closer to a large city and which have more social options which do not involve drinking, and was admitted to both. She did transfer, is very happy at her new school, and all of her credits transferred, so it worked out well for her. </p>
<p>Initially, my husband and I were not happy about her desire to transfer, as we thought her first school was a wonderful place, and, additionally, she was giving up a merit scholarship that they had awarded to her. (It is a wonderful place, but it was not the right place for her.) However, my daughter is not normally a complainer, had never before had trouble adjusting to any situation, including travelling abroad for a summer program by herself when she was almost 17, so we took her concerns seriously. She says now that if she had stayed at her other school, she would have been ok, but I am glad that she is in an environment where she feels that she better fits in.</p>
<p>PS: Since I started to compose this post, three other posters have provided specific suggestions so I will chime in here, too. My daughter applied to transfer to Bryn Mawr and Swarthmore and is now at Swarthmore. Swarthmore formerly accepted few if any transfer students, but has started a new policy of encouraging transfer applications and accepting a much larger group of transfers each year. Here is a link from the school newspaper, the Phoenix, about this new policy: <a href="http://phoenix.swarthmore.edu/2006-10-26/news/16457%5B/url%5D">http://phoenix.swarthmore.edu/2006-10-26/news/16457</a></p>
<p>"That said, if she has an option at her old or new campus to transfer housing to a substance-free dorm, she might be much happier. Talk with her about whether there's any possibility of choosing her own "social center of gravity" where people do productive things and then put on some blinders about others' lesser choices."</p>
<p>If it is either one of the two places that it sounds like to me, there are no substance-free dorms. The data at one of these schools (my alma mater, but the other one is so similar in demographics and campus life that it is unlikely to be different) is that half the student binges at least once every two weeks (usually more); 29% of the student body is made up of heavy (nearly daily) drinkers. There is no town to speak of, and no other outlet; not even any frats for the drinkers to pile into, leaving space for everyone else. Since likely 20-25% of the student body are abstainers (lower for whites, and for males), moderate drinkers are a vanishing breed. The Jewish population is small, relative to other LACs. </p>
<p>My d. turned it down, and attends Smith. They have a dining room with kosher/hallal food 3 meals a day, seven days a week. A very active Hillel, with Friday night dinner, and zmirot that usually goes until 11 or 12 at night. (My d. regularly cooks there, though this year she is in Italy.) Passover is one of the biggest religious events on campus. A strong Jewish studies department (with many of the students enrolling being non-Jews.) Two synagogues in town, and an additional one at Amherst (Julius Lester used to be the chazan.) A great town, with 11 bookstores, scores of restaurants, a music hall, an opera company, theaters, folk cafes, and coffee shops (looks like Cambridge circa 1968). Oh, and drinking rates well less than half that at my alma mater.</p>
<p>Moral of the story for next year's applicants. Pay attention to the drinking cultures at the schools under consideration. It's not always easy, but it is possible to find out ahead of time which schools are dominated by drinking and which provide more of a balance. There is little danger of finding a school with no drinking in case little Jennifer or Jason is worried that college won't be "fun".</p>
<p>Sometimes, the information is right there slapping you in the face. Pay attention to the code words in the college guidebooks ("Students are proud of their school's work hard/play hard reputation....").</p>
<p>Fourkidsmom - Is your D at Bates, Bowdoin or Middlebury? I have heard they are heavy drinking schools because there isn't a whole lot more to do there. And, I do know kids who have transferred from Middlebury because of the drinking. All colleges have a drinking culture and don't be fooled to think some don't. The trick is finding the kids not involved with drinking when you get there. My D had good luck by signing up for a substance free dorm Freshman year. Her school has a VERY high drinking rate and by doing this she has made a nice group of friends who proudly are in the minority at her school. Unfortunately, most substance free dorms are primarily Freshman. As she moved up in years the group has stayed together....they just request rooms close to each other.</p>
<p>Brandeis and Tufts are the two schools that come to my mind if she is looking for a school with a reasonable Jewish base (especially Brandeis). I have also heard that BU has a large Jewish community. If she wants to leave New England....Emory.</p>
<p>"All colleges have a drinking culture and don't be fooled to think some don't."</p>
<p>I think the more common foolishness BY FAR is the assumption that the drinking culture, even at schools that might look similar on paper, are the same. The differences are really, really massive.</p>
<p>I suggested substance free dorms before and now. She says she doesn't want to be where it's forbidden, just not in your face every night. I think she'd be happier that way, but a mom's push is just a mom's push...She knows there is drinking everywhere- she just wants it where other kids like to stay in and watch movies or hang out and it's not an all the time drinking party. She has done a few things to meet other people, and as I told her it's still early but, as I told her and others have said here, check out the other schools- you may find you're just as happy where you are and you may find somewhere better.
I saw wjb's post last year- it seemed like my younger daughter's friend who had an identical school situation but it wasn't. I was hoping my D would find different group and not be in that situation, but she is...
She's definitely not looking neccessarily at a Brandeis-type strong Jewish
school- just one where there is a strong Hillel and there are a bunch of Jewish kids
I looked up Swarthmore and Haverford this am- how conincidental- She asked about William and Mary and about Northwestern late last night- if anyone has ideas to share there...</p>
<p>If she wants a bigger place, WUSTL could be a good choice as well.</p>
<p>Yes, all schools have a drinking culture. No one is denying that. But it is much more pervasive in some schools than others. If you've attended two different ones, you can feel the difference.</p>
<p>My D started at a good OOS flagship,with great merit money. Very quickly, she felt absolutely the way the OP's D does. I have never heard so much unending unhappiness. She was excelling in an Honors Program, and miserable every weekend. The dorms virtually emptied out as everyone headed to the huge frat-parties. She tried a myriad of ECs, but found these didn't change the weekend behavior, and in fact at the ones she was most interested in, she was the only freshman--and upper class and grad students really weren't looking for a 17 year old buddy.</p>
<p>4kidsmom-- my D decided to look for a more academically oriented school where being an activist type wouldn't mark her as weird. She applied to Oberlin, Tufts, and Wesleyan. Though there is certainly drinking, and drug use, at these schools, they all, especially Oberlin and Wes, struck us as very accepting places where being different, goofy, etc, is welcomed. If you want to drink, fine, if you don't, hey, that's fine too. There is no pressure to do that big party type drinking, or to drink at all. Lots of kids are proudly "straight edge." There are skillions of things going on weekend nights that are not alcohol related, and lots of students who are interested in them. </p>
<p>She was accepted to all three, and graduated from Wesleyan after three very, very happy years. Like you, we were not thrilled with the idea of transfering, espcially as she gave up a merit scholarship to go to a more expensive school, but given the difference in her, it was totally worth it.</p>
<p>(addendum to MOtherof2--interesting about Swarthmore; that was one we looked into, but at the time they only took transfers in the single digits, so we figured it wasn't worth it. I'm glad to hear they're taking more now.)</p>
<p>From 1psmom, above: "Her school has a VERY high drinking rate and by doing this she has made a nice group of friends who proudly are in the minority at her school."</p>
<p>It's great that your daughter found a nice group of friends and is happy at her school. However, in my daughter's case, she was not happy to be part of a "proud minority" going against the grain of the mainstream culture of the school, and is much more comfortable feeling that she is surrounded by people who are more like her as far as what they enjoy in their social life.</p>
<p>Mini:</p>
<p>The other bit of foolishness is believing that very high binge drinking rates will not negatively impact the degree of academic engagement on campus.</p>
<p>I guarantee that a school with a 60% binge drinking rate will, on average, have less engaged students in the classroom than a school with a 30% binge drinking rate. Not so much because of the kids who drink once a week on Saturday night but because the higher binge drinking rate school will have a signficant percentage of the student body drinking heavily two or more times each week, drinking that is disruptive to those around them either from disturbing dorm life or being less than prepared for classroom discussion.</p>
<p>Yes, I agree, Momof2. My D felt the same way. And there's no guarantee that the proud (and tiny) minority, are people that you otherwise have anything in common with.</p>
<p>"The other bit of foolishness is believing that very high binge drinking rates will not negatively impact the degree of academic engagement on campus."</p>
<p>I know this is true at my stepnephew's school. I hear from my mother what his junior-semester-abroad at the school's sponsored program in Italy was like, and it was pretty shocking (though not different from what I've heard about his on-campus experience.) There are parents on this board who contact me pretty regularly about their kids' experience at our common alma mater, and I hear the same complaint.</p>
<p>Bingo, motheroftwo and garland. There were (and I'm certain still are) plenty of happy non-conformists at my D's first school. But to be a happy non-conformist, you have to have the soul of a nonconformist. My D is the quintessential mainstream kid and so, for her, finding a niche outside of the dominant culture was not a good option.</p>