True no-brainer or just desperate for a pair of rose-colored glasses?

Parent Cafe
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<p>A while back now, I made an introductory post about my son and our college selection process. I got lots of great advice that I used and have kept in mind, and I was/am very grateful for that - so thank you again! Here's a summary and update of our situation.</p>

<p>DS has been accepted to Bard, Bennington, New College of Florida, Univ of Vermont, Goucher, SUNY New Paltz, Hampshire College, and just yesterday CUNY's Macaulay Honors College at Hunter. He's still waiting on a handful of RDs, but the only ones he's particularly interested in are Bates, Colby, and Vassar.</p>

<p>We are a middle class family (I think some might consider us upper middle class, but I'm not sure where that cutoff really is) with DH and I both being decently paid state workers and with four dependent children. Financially, we're fine but certainly not wealthy. We live in a nice but not at all fancy home, we drive ubiquitous used vehicles (Honda Accord and Subaru Forester), we do a lot of camping but will take a "real" vacation every few years, we don't have a boat or summer cabin or anything like that. I guess we're basically just a typical suburban family. </p>

<p>When we had our first child, we were both still in grad school and on RA stipends. Then I spent about half of my career years working part time when the children were very young. We have not saved significant money for the kids' college, and we've realized that what we <em>have</em> saved might take the edge off but it's certainly not going to make any real dent in these high LAC costs. We haven't worried about this because my MIL has always said that she would cover the first two's college expenses and we (DH and I) could cover the younger two's. Seemed like a great plan.</p>

<p>In the fall, when we were finalizing the list of colleges S would apply to, several of the ones he ended up applying to weren't in the plan because of their high cost and their not being known for being generous with FA. MIL said not to worry about that, that those schools would be perfect for S, and that they would take care of it. Well, like someone warned on my original intro post, those intentions/indications aren't always carried through. And now that he has visited these colleges, sees himself at one of them, and has been accepted, MIL suddenly has stopped talking about covering the costs. Instead, she has asked me what the maximum is we can pay and says she thinks they should be able to help (without saying with how much). I've been getting very stressed about the costs and instead of her providing any reassurement that "remember, we're worrying about that, not you", she provides empathy ("yes, it must be very stressful trying to figure out how to pay for it", "it's terrible that kids have to take out so many student loans in this uncertain job market", etc.). DH thinks she will change her tune back to paying and that we can worry about it when we get the bill. While he may feel comfortable with that, the uncertainty of it makes ME feel like I'm going to have a nervous breakdown. </p>

<p>I don't want to let S think he's going to be enrolling in a school that we ultimately aren't going to be able to pay for, and I don't want to worry about dealing with this "who's paying?" issue going back and forth all four years he is in college. So. . . (legitimately or not) I suddenly feel like I have to figure out the expenses on my own, and it's been overwhelming (especially since I'm not even good with finances - I do the routine expenses like food, clothes, school and household supplies, etc. while my husband does the big ones like new furnace, house painting, refinancing the mortgage, etc.).</p>

<p>On our own, we can afford to pay for New Paltz (S's very last choice) and New College of Florida (S would likely love being at the college itself but prefers staying closer to home). We've gotten FA packages from Bennington, Hampshire, and Goucher. With the merit offer received, Goucher would have the lowest cost of those three and we could probably pull it off but it would be tough, and S would have to take loans and work. Because he didn't get one penny of aid beyond his merit scholarship, each year's cost would go up, and I'm not convinced Goucher is worth that much pain. At Hampshire, he got their largest merit award and a little need-based aid, but it's still clearly too much for us to pay and I don't think Hampshire has a lot of extra money to work with. Bennington (tied with Bard as S's top choice) also came in with a cost that is very high, again with a combination of merit and need-based aid given. Because it's at the very top of his list, we appealed the FA offer, and I thought we did a very good job with it (he wrote a letter about why he wanted to go there, I wrote a letter, and I provided copies of a few other financial commitments I asked them to consider), but I guess we really didn't. They gave him $1,500 more but when we're talking upwards of $40,000 a year, $1,500 doesn't make much difference.</p>

<p>He hasn't gotten a FA package from Bard yet, and of course he doesn't know yet whether or not he's been accepted at Bates or Vassar. From what I've seen so far, though, I don't feel confident that our net price for any of those schools would end up differing significantly from what we've seen at the other private LACs.</p>

<p>So I've been gearing up to work on getting him used to the idea of being relatively far from home or to the idea of making the best of New Paltz and applying to their honor college. Mind you, neither one of these options would be particularly inexpensive, but they'd be doable. (Unfortunately, NP has nearly no merit money to give and S literally got $0 even though academically he is head and shoulders above their norm - in hindsight, we probably should have picked at least one SUNY that has known merit money to give, but I think it's too late for that now.)</p>

<p>And then a beautiful thing happened yesterday. S got accepted into CUNY's Macaulay Honors College at Hunter. For the first two years, all we'd have to pay for is his food and personal costs. For the last two years, we'd have to pay for his dorm room too, which may cost more than a typical college dorm, but given the entire situation, since that would be the only major cost, it would be fine). It's also an easy train or bus ride away. Lots of people from where we live travel back and forth regularly, often just for one day. Heck, our family has gone back and forth several times too for simple and quick little mini-vacations. (As a cute aside, DS(7) last night said being able to go to college in NYC would be a "dream come true", so evidence that our experiences with NYC are positive ones. LOL) </p>

<p>Macaulay has always seemed like an intriguing option, but it has a low acceptance rate so we definitely haven't been counting on it. Now, I can't help but wonder if it's nothing short of the obvious choice of where he should go. I'm not going to talk about the merits of Macaulay here because they're easy to find elsewhere, but we've always thought the program would be a potentially fantastic opportunity. And while he thinks that he'd probably prefer a more traditional campus, S has all along seen Macaulay as a real possibility if he were to get accepted. A couple of colleagues I've been talking to throughout this process (one of whom is also a musician and did spend several years in the city) have also said that as a young musician, NYC would probably be the most exciting place for him to be during these young adult years.</p>

<p>Also, I can't help but focus on the fact that the more money we can save with this child, the more prepared we can be for the other ones who may not end up with a comparable low-cost option. Can't forget that there are three more coming up!</p>

<p>What do you think? What would you do? What would you advise? Is Macaulay the no-brainer it's looking like to me or am I just too eager to slip on a pair of rose-colored glasses? </p>

<p>I'm struggling a bit because the rational, objective part of my brain has been dueling it out with the very emotional part of my brain, and I'm trying to make sure smart decisions are being made. I've been feeling really terrible, kicking myself for every bad decision I've ever made in my entire life that could have played a role in being in this spot, but regardless of how we got here, I realize that I really need to feel like - right now, at <em>this</em> time - I'm making the soundest decisions possible and advising my son as best I can. I don't plan to tell him where he HAS to go, but we're pretty close and he trusts my judgement. </p>

<p>And <em>I</em> trust YOUR judgement. :)</p>

<p>P.S. I am sorry this is so ridiculously long, but I think it was even helpful to just get it all out - so thanks for bearing with me!!</p>

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<p>The question is what does your son think of Macaulay? If he would be happy there it sounds like an ideal choice.</p>

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<p>As far as I know, Macaulay Hunter, and Hunter in general, is very good for any medicine/bio related fields. What is your S intended major? For pre-med, it’s really a no-brainer. For music…not sure.</p>

<p>I know this school is quite popular and Macaulay program at Hunter is VERY selective, especially in the last few years. And living in the city essentially free would be a huge plus for some, but not for all. So, speak to your S and try to get his feelings about this option. I would’t count too much on MIL contribution, though. Especially considering the fact that you would have to go through this unpleasant negotiation process (who pays how much) at least for four years.</p>

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<p>The choice you make needs to be not counting on the grandma to pay for anything. Last thing you want is not to have the money when the bill comes. Your son’s education is too important to have all that uncertainty. If the grandma was sincere, she would have stepped up to it already.</p>

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<p>Erin’s Dad - It’s hard to say for certain right now. We’ve read a lot about it, and he likes what he’s read. We went down for an interview, but it was a pretty crazy day. We literally didn’t do anything besides drive straight into Manhattan, wait for him to have his 20-minute interview, and then drive straight back home. We didn’t even stop in anywhere for a drink or sandwich!! We will be going down for their attended students day and will stay a couple of nights to get a much better feel for everything (including making the commute a couple of times between the dorm and the campus, etc.).</p>

<p>Newstudentmom, he would go in undecided. He definitely hasn’t expressed any interest in medicine/bio related fields. He’s mentioned philosophy and more recently math. Political science may also end up being a good fit for him. He hasn’t wanted to make any decisions about majors without taking some classes first. He’s bounced music around as a possibility, but it would probably end up being a minor or secondary program.</p>

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<p>I agree with oldfort. Either way, you don’t want to be asking MIL for money every semester. It sounds like you will just be in a horrible position, having to be grateful all of the time. It sounds really dreadful.</p>

<p>Luckily your son has more than one school to choose from. So, no matter what, that’s really great, especially since you didn’t plan on needing that. (or maybe you did.)</p>

<p>Either way, just lay the facts out on the table for your son. Tell him that due to circumstances you didn’t foresee these are the choices he will have to make.</p>

<p>Good luck.</p>

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<p>I think you need to put all the costs down on paper (spreadsheet) and look at the net costs with him–with and without loans–this really should have been done last fall, but too late. Put the choice on him. There are student loan calculators one line you can use to estimate student loan payments down the road. Say he has to take $100,000 in student loans, show him how that will compare to take home pay of $40,000 (fairly reasonable expectation for a first job out of college). Assume he will live in your general area and what rent would be, taxes, insurance, car payment, etc. Often the choice becomes VERY clear when it’s all in black and white.</p>

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<p>Also, depends on his future schooling. Decent PhD programs are generally funded but you have to pay for professional schools. In relative terms, I’d go with the most affordable, what his parents can pay, place. Kids adjust well to environment. And if not, transfer out is always an option.</p>

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<p>If you lay out the net price for each college (cost of attendance minus *grant/scholarship<a href=“not%20loan”>/i</a> aid), the limit of what you can contribute, and reasonable limits on what he can be expected to handle with student loans and work earnings (many colleges assume at most $8,500 per year from a $5,500 Stafford loan and $3,000 in work earnings; some students and families conservatively assume less), that should help him understand the realistic choices.</p>

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<p>First of al congrats on your S’s admission to Macauley Honors. Macauley Honors at Hunter does come with free dorms at Brookdale.</p>

<p>[Macaulay</a> Honors College - Campuses](<a href=“http://www.macaulay.cuny.edu/about/campuses.php?hunter]Macaulay”>http://www.macaulay.cuny.edu/about/campuses.php?hunter)</p>

<p>[BROOKDALE</a> CAMPUS ? Hunter College](<a href=“http://www.hunter.cuny.edu/studentservices/reslife/brookdale]BROOKDALE”>http://www.hunter.cuny.edu/studentservices/reslife/brookdale)</p>

<p>I think that this is as close as you are going to get to a free ride (tuition and housing). Even if he does not want to live in the dorm, you can investigate other housing options (the 92nd street residences are ~ 10k/year not counting food, but this would also be less than what you would pay for New Paltz).</p>

<p>He could take advantage of all that the program offers and have a very rich college experience</p>

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<p>Macauley’s main building is on 67th street at lincoln center. The money that you are saving on tuition and dorms, you could probably invest in to additional music lessons, opportunities.</p>

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<p>Yes! That was “so ridiculously long”, but if it was cathartic for you, have at it! ;-)</p>

<p>To be honest, I think you’re looking through rose colored glasses. The list of schools you provided in the top of your post are far better than CUNY Hunter in general. This would depend on major too, but generally, CUNY is at the very bottom of that list. You didn’t mention what your son wants to be. Maybe you did. Your post was so long… I fell asleep halfway through, then woke up again before it ended, so I’m sorry if I missed something in the middle. :-)</p>

<p>The real issue is your mother in-law! Talking as a father and husband myself, your husband needs to grow a pair and go have a “heart to heart” with mom. This is his boy’s future we’re talking about! If that witch (oh… sorry, I was thinking about MY mother in-law)… um… If your husband’s wonderful and kind mother has promised this over the years, she needs to be reminded of that promise and know your child, her grandson, is counting on her to honor that promise.</p>

<p>With four kids, and probably being in the “donut hole” of making too much money for aid and not enough to afford to pay for four educations, a promise like that for your child is like promising him a seat on a lifeboat of the Titanic. </p>

<p>Look, I don’t mince words when I think something is important. This is incredibly important for your child. I think your MIL is trash if she promised a seat on her lifeboat, and now that your son is treading water next to it, she’s got no room for him. And your husband, by not directly addressing the issue, isn’t being the father his boy deserves. All your husband needs to do is remind his mother of her promises and directly ask if your son can still count on her. It’s not hard. It’s called “communication.” He should put on his big boy pants and try it.</p>

<p>It certainly sounds like you guys made some financial planning decisions based on your MIL’s promises. Promises from family are not to be taken or given lightly. An a broken promise from family is not to be easily forgiven. There is a responsibility immediate family has to one another. If that goes, then so does our society… but I digress.</p>

<p>I’m sorry for putting words in your mouth, but from the nature of your writing it seems like your MIL will have no “skin in the game” on this. It sounds like your husband is just going to ride the train and see if it falls off the tracks! Simply unbelievable. If that train does go off the tracks and your son gets screwed, he should know grandma did the screwing. Don’ let your MIL just carry on as if she did nothing wrong. If she won’t honor her promise, let her explain it to your son, her grandchild. Make her have “skin in the game”. </p>

<p>Work out this mess right now! Then, depending on the real situation, make your decisions knowing the facts.</p>

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<p>oldfort and poetgrl - That’s pretty much what I’m thinking too. I almost feel like she’ll be happy to swoop in and save the day, but it’s just so much stress for me, and I certainly don’t want to be counting on that. And poetgrl, you are correct in that I think I DID, at some level, know we needed to end up with at least a couple options we could handle on our own.</p>

<p>SteveMA - You will be happy to know we DO have a spreadsheet, with the numbers listed by school down to the dollar. First the tuition and NPC estimates went in and then those are replaced with the real figures come in. It’s been there since last fall and it’s regularly shared with all involved. That’s part of the reason this has been so difficult for me, is that these costs aren’t coming out of nowhere. They’re precisely the reason I didn’t think S should apply to several of the schools in the first place, but MIL said “don’t worry about it”. Regarding the loans, we all have a vested interest in his not having any or only very minimal ones. I maxed out on loans for undergraduate and graduate school, and it made life very difficult.</p>

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<p>Ok, so I am not going to mince words either, the biggest mistake was to take grandmother’s words seriously without any real actions. The grandmother doesn’t have any skin in the game. As parents, OP and her husband are responsible for their kids’s college tuitions. I wouldn’t put my kid’s future in anyone else’s hands but mine.</p>

<p>OP, you did good to have other options for your kid.</p>

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<p>Is you son happy and excited at the idea of living and going to school in NYC? I think that’s the huge question. For our son…it was the big drawback about Macaulay. We’re a NYC family…so it’s not like we don’t like Manhattan or aren’t familiar with it…but it’s a very specific kind of town to go to college in. Not bad…just specific. And if a kid is looking forward to the sort of college experience you get at a Goucher or Hampshire, or SUNY New Paltz…they’re going to be really disappointed.</p>

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<p>Even if MIL comes through with money for the first year (or semester) of college, she can always change her mind later. That would put you and S in a very difficult position - continuing at a college you can no longer afford, or trying to transfer away from a place where S has made friends, invested in the program, etc. So it makes sense to me to not count on $ from MIL at all, and have S choose a school you as a family can afford. If MIL comes up with money after all, it will be just gravy.</p>

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<p>There is a great Award Letter Comparison tool at [FinAid</a>! Financial Aid, College Scholarships and Student Loans](<a href=“http://www.finaid.org%5DFinAid”>http://www.finaid.org). Run the numbers for all of the places on your son’s list. Take grandma’s money out of the picture, and stomp on the rose colored glasses. See which places your family actually can afford given that there are several children to educate. If it turns out that Macaulay is the only truly affordable option, so be it. Your son can accept that offer, or take a gap year and reapply.</p>

<p>If grandma says something about “helping”, tell her not to worry and that you have things covered. Frankly her original offer was crazy. What if the first two kids had been able to attend a place that cost $$$$ because grandma was paying, but the other two had to attend ones that cost $ because mom and dad were paying (or the reverse)?</p>

<p>Grandma’s financial situation may have changed quite a bit relative to the cost of college since she made her original offer. Anyone, even your husband and the kids, should be able to understand that. You will be happier, and everything will be smoother, if you don’t look to grandma for monetary aid.</p>

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<p>If my MIL were to promise two of my children gifts amounting to $400,000, I would not hold my breath, I would develop Plan B, and I would not crucify her when she didn’t follow through.</p>

<p>I think both CUNY and New College are reasonable choices. Son should not be allowed to severely damage prospects for you and for his siblings just so he can have a certain type of expensive college experience.</p>

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<p>I think it truly is a no brainer. He makes his choice from the options you can afford without grandma’s help</p>

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<p>Macaulay is a very sweet option. The only thing I would ask you is what kind so person is your son? If he is outgoing and could embrace all the opportunities available to him without a lot of babysitting, I would tell you to count your lucky stars. However, if he needs a lot of support, this might not be perfect. Macaulay is a very prestigious and perk-filled program. Anything would be possible academically and socially for your son. Congratulations!!!</p>

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<p>maikai - You hit so many nails on the head! We are in the donut hole, we did make decisions based on what we were being told all along, DH is willing to just coast along and see what happens, etc, etc, etc. Because I’ve been hounding him so much about this, DH actually did end up talking to her this morning and tried to get firm answers, but she is being very vague. She is going to help, but with how much is not stated. She wants her and DH to take on a rental property to have the rent pay for the college bills. (Apparently, that’s what they did decades ago to pay for FIL’s law school.) DH would make for a terrible landlord and doesn’t even want to be one - this is the proposed plan?? I’m thinking she wants to pay but doesn’t actually want to feel like she’s losing any money. Oh, and I know CUNY in general isn’t as high caliber as the other schools, but the Macaulay Honors College really is supposed to be quite different. </p>

<p>oldfort - I absolutely agree that was a huge mistake, and I am really kicking myself in the butt for it. I’ve given myself enough bruises over this, though, and now I’m trying to pull myself together so we can move forward given where we are.</p>

<p>JoBenny - that’s such a tough question. If you knew my S, you would understand! He is so mellow and so low-key and so laid back. He doesn’t much do “happy and excited” about anything other than performing with his band, and even then, it’s a very relaxed type of happy and excited! He has said that whether he’s in a rural, suburban, or urban college location isn’t all that important to him. He does have this strong “wilderness” side to him, but so long as he would still have opportunities to be involved with those programs (which he would if he’s around this area), he’d be fine. That’s also part of his concern with being down in Florida, that he wouldn’t be able to get to any of their periodic weekend get-togethers.</p>