U of T or McGill for an introverted intellectual?

Student Lounge International Students
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<p>I am a U.S. high school student planning to study engineering. My top choices are U of T and McGill (starting fall 2013). Although not certain, it is very likely that I will get into both universities. Anyways, I am not sure which school is my top choice. I know that others have posted a similar question but my desires in a school are a little uncouth. The prevailing opinion is that U of T is very impersonal and their grading system is unduly harsh. Most of the comments I've seen recommend McGill over U of T because of a supposedly better social scene, prettier campus, and more ethical grading system. Having recently visited both campuses, I can say that my initial preference is for U of T. I love the school and I love Toronto. Despite its praise, I found McGill and Montreal to be antiquated and dirty (from an aesthetic point of view). A waitress in Montreal described Toronto as a steely business-oriented city, while Montreal is more relaxed and artistic. Based on this comment, I would absolutely pick Toronto. Nevertheless, McGill certainly impressed me with its resources and reputation; even if Montreal is not my favorite city, I could certainly attend university there. </p>

<p>I am clearly leaning towards U of T, but some of the criticisms I keep reading are making me uneasy. I am a very hard worker and there is no environment I am more suited to in the world than a respected, challenging university. However, I would like to avoid an environment where I feel put down no matter how hard I work. Some of the remarks about U of T seem to be implying that it is very much like this. But, I am wary of acting on the word of others because I am not your normal 17 year-old. I have no intention of doing any partying while at university; I don't enjoy social situations like that at all. I do not and will not drink or use any drugs and I am bordering on asexual. Please don't mistake me for being conservative or up-tight. There is nothing I love more than to see people express themselves and experience life--that's why I am compelled to live in a large city. I simply don't enjoy these things. My idea of fun is reading for hours on end, running a brisk 5k everyday, meditating, and learning new languages. The little social interaction I require would easily be fulfilled in class, the library, or the gym. Because I am so quiet and intellectual, I am not sure if I need worry about the harsh criticisms of U of T's academic expectations. They say that one has no time for a social life at U of T: I am totally fine with that. I just don't want to be working as hard as I bloody can and still not see results in my grades. That is my one caveat about University. Because people have recommended McGill over U of T based solely on this supposed difference in grading systems, I am compelled to consider whether or not U of T is appropriate for me.</p>

<p>If you have bothered to read all this, I am sure that you may find me incredibly obsessive and probably want to tell me to stop over-thinking this. While I appreciate your concern, consider if such a comment would really have an effect on a person like myself. In short, I just need some advice on whether or not--based on your impression of me--I can handle the infamous grading system at U of T. Furthermore, please post any information about U of T or McGill that you think I might be interested in. Thank you greatly!</p>

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<p>U of T isn’t actually that hard. If you’re near the top of your class you’ll do just fine. Anything higher than an 85 (most classes aren’t curved) is already a 4.0 on their grading scale. (Compare this to US schools, where an 85 would be a B, or 3.0.)</p>

<p>All my friends from high school who had similar academic achievement to me (~95% average, >2300 SAT) are getting straight A’s in all their U of T classes. Now, I don’t know what your stats are like since you never posted them, but if you are a hard-working and high achieving student, you will be just fine at U of T. If you’ve taken AP classes and done well in them, it will be even easier. I’ve looked at their coursework and most of it (especially the math) doesn’t go beyond what I learned in high school.</p>

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<p>How is Montreal “antiquated”?</p>

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<p>Old buildings, old history? It’s pretty modern in its own way despite that, but it adds character and is fun to tour because of that.</p>

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<p>I agree. If you want bland modernity, go to school in Phoenix or Houston.</p>

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<p>^
I don’t think the OP mentioned they have a masochistic desire to attend a university in a place where there are 3 seasons: spring, summer, and hell.</p>

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<p>^ Only Americans and Vancouverites really ***** about a Montreal winter.</p>

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<p>@imokayman: I thought you referred to summer twice at first. :p</p>

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<p>cwendiga, you are likely to do well and to enjoy either school. Both schools will provide you with an excellent education and are located in great cities. I’m not sure who told you that U of T students have no time for a social life but that just isn’t true. Three of my five Ds attend(ed) U of T for undergrad, grad school, law school, med school and I can tell you with 100% certainty that they had ample time for a social life. :slight_smile: </p>

<p>Good luck with your decision.</p>

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<p>Sounds like Toronto would be good for you.</p>

<p>Since tens of thousands of people have happily attended there, I think you are engaging in a bit too much “micro” analysis. In other words, you are over-analyzing things.</p>

<p>Being a tough school, academically, with no grade inflation, to me is a plus, not a negative.</p>

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<p>U of T isn’t as hard as people make it. Many of my friends there all have over 3.9 + and I know a good number at McGill who do too (I go to McGill).</p>

<p>I think they’re about the same difficulty so you shouldn’t let that be a factor. The two schools have different goals in their admission cutoffs. U of T takes in many students (take their money) then weed the “weak” ones out. McGill raises it cutoff as high as it can (I guess for boasting reasons). Academically they’re on a similar level. If you enter with a 95% avg, you’ll probably do well at either.</p>

<p>For ex. U of T has pretty low cutoff’s (say 80% for life sci) and McGill (93.5%). For the same difficulty, the lower entrance students at U of T might find it really hard (they get weeded out) and then the strong ones are left (so the graduating class probably has equal students at both places).</p>

<p>I personally chose McGill over U of T because it has a cohesive campus (U of T is spread out throughout the city so it doesn’t feel unified). Academically, choose either.</p>

<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/mcgill-university/872620-virtual-tour-mcgill.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/mcgill-university/872620-virtual-tour-mcgill.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>McGill IS beautiful though - and very clean. You may have visited during a heavy construction period so it was dusty and what not.</p>

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<p>@mus1cx: Excellent post!</p>

<p>The academic rigor at UofT and McGill is comparable as is the caliber of graduating students. The difference is that most students who flunk out of UofT would not have been admitted to McGill in the first place. While McGill’s admission standards are higher than those at UofT it is not so much for boasting purposes, although that may be part of it, but rather because McGill feels that it is unethical to admit students whose academic record makes success at university unlikely. In Canada only McGill and Queen’s practice this policy.</p>

<p>Also, the last few years have seen major construction and renovation at McGill, especially on the lower campus. This will continue for a few more years. The permanent pedestrianisation of the lower campus will be more disruptive but the finished project will be remarkable. </p>

<p>And of course there is the best advantage that McGill has over UofT: Montr</p>

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<p>

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<p>Not really true. The campus is fairly well-contained between Bay/Spadina and Bloor/College.</p>

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<p>Well mcgill econ/math student here and heres my 2 cents
i graduated from one of canada’s top prep schools with honors, 2200+ on sats and 800 on 4 subject tests. I scored 5s/4s on 11? 12? APs (forget exact numbers sorry).
i was accepted to several top 20 institutions in the states but chose mcgill due to family reasons.</p>

<p>ill come out clean starting with my gpa. originally, i was an honors poli sci student. i finished first year with 1.7? gpa. i couldnt really adjust to all the freedom and crap i had just gotten. after years of endless private tutoring and extracurricular activities, it was really hard especially when i had just broken off my 2 year long relationship. tbh tho, did i really try in my first year? no i cannot say i tried my hardest.</p>

<p>in my second year of studies tho, i geared up. i had a goal in life ( still do ) and i needed to succeed academically in order to achieve that. in my 2nd year of studies i ended up with 8 As, 1 A- and 1 B+. now going into my 3rd year of studies, i am confident that i will be able to keep up my GPA in lines of my 2nd year results. </p>

<p>it only took me 2hours of studyign every day. nothing mroe noting less. mcgill can be challenging yes. especially if you are in certain programs that require a lot of time and effort to successfully complete the course works. however, mcgill will be able to offer you the academic and intellectual challange which you seek. professors are absolutely brilliant (especially the math ones, i love them to death), and some students (although most are not) have intellectual capacity of monsters. </p>

<p>I do regret not going to us schools sometimes (notably uchicago econ :frowning: ) due to lack of career opportunities in canada, however, when i speak with my prep school buddies in ivy/oxbridge, i feel like mcgill offers no less challenging education compared to any of those schools. </p>

<p>now, i have never been to u of t or experienced education there, however if you know that challeneges are for you like myself, then i can wholeheartedly tell you that mcgill will be a fine choice.</p>

<p>ps. not sure if true, but rumor is mcgill sets avg to be 65% throughout most of its classes. graduating class stats show that most of the graduates place in 2.7~3.0 category with only 1% of graduating class in the 3.7~4.0 category.</p>

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<p>this is a little off topic and more of a general question, but the grading scale is different in Canada isn’t it? So if I were to, say, earn an 85% in a class in a Canadian university, this counts as an A in Canada but does it later transfer over as a B if I were to apply to an American graduate school?</p>

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<p>At McGill anyway, your transcript would show the letter grade of A. American grad and professional schoosl would accept your Canadian GPA at face value. Most American schools are quite familiar with Canadian transcripts.</p>