<p>So here's the deal: I got admitted into U of T's Trinity College for Arts and Sciences with a $2000 scholarship, and I got into McGill's Arts and Business program.</p>
<p>I know this exact topic has been discussed before, but I wanted to add a personal spin:</p>
<p>Basically my thought process is that McGill trumps U of T anyday, but Trinity trumps McGill. Factors that I heavily consider are CLASS SIZE (very big deal for me), overall quality of profs (teaching skills, accessability), sense of community. I also need to consider international reputation, because I want to go to grad school either in the states (or get a Rhodes scholarship...pretty much impossible unless I somehow become a superhuman). </p>
<p>And I also am applying for a transfer to Brown next year, so the school I'm coming from matters, and I know that McGill is sometimes compared with Brown (though clearly they are NOT on the same level) and U of T is generally just compared with other Canadian schools. (I know that someone is going to say 'Give canadian schools a chance and you may find that you love them', and I know I will, but Brown is my DREAM school and I can't give it up after just one rejection! I need a second one to seal the deal :P)</p>
<p>Anyway, I know that it's ultimately what I do, and not the school that matters so much, but where I spend my next four years still seems like a big deal.</p>
<p>Any insight would be really appreciated! Sorry for using so many parentheses! :)</p>
<p>Transfer to Brown from anywhere is difficult. If you apply after your freshman year at McGill/UofT, Brown will still look at your high school record and SAT/ACT. So if you were rejected this year, your chances won’t inprove much next year.</p>
<p>i know, my sats are actually pretty strong but my gpa definitely brought me down thanks to sophomore year. i have a reason, though i didn’t mention it on the application this year…i’m aware of how ridiculously low the chance of acceptance is, but i suppose that if i try, there’s at least a chance.</p>
<p>any input on the two canadian universities?</p>
<p>Well from what I know, where ever you go any science programs have large lecture classes for the first two years (according to my university friends in science). McGill probably have large class sizes too depending on the courses. So I guess you should email the universities and ask about the class sizes since it’s an important factor to you!</p>
<p>As for the international reputation, I would say McGill has a bigger reputation since there are many American and European students who apply to McGill. It’s also more recognzied internationally (along with UBC and McMasters) than any other Canadian universities.</p>
<p>Not sure why that is your thought process. Both are excellent schools. The fact that you are in Trin will not affect much, other than what res you live in and what dining hall you wear your gown/robe to for meals. Your comparison should be between U of T and McGill, with Trin not entering into the equation. Have you visited both? If you’re planning on a transfer attempt after first year, I’m not sure why you’re even coming to Canada, assuming you’re in the U.S. Keep in mind that as tomofboston said, transfer to Brown is difficult, especially if you were not competitive for freshman admission. As for sense of community, I can say that U of T’s college system allows for this in a positive way. I can’t speak to the issue re: McGill. Perhaps tomofboston can provide some insight there.</p>
<p>First year class sizes will depend largely on the courses you choose to take, rather than which school you’re attending. My Ds who have attended U of T have enjoyed many of their profs, and all have office hours so accessibility is not an issue. My nieces and nephews who have been at McGill have enjoyed their experiences there. If you do well at either U of T or McGill, your opportunities for grad or professional school will be good. Neither is going to provide you with an advantage in that way over the other.</p>
<p>My thought process was that trin would offer a much more intimate environment than either McGill or u of t as a whole, which was why it appealed to me. I think admission to trin is actually more competitive than McGill, but people generally just look at trin as a part of u of t. I liked that trin looks at essays and personal qualities, not just marks. However, i know that i will still be interacting with a massive 35000 group of undergrads at u of t as opposed to 10000 less at McGill.</p>
<p>I’m also Canadian, if that clears things up. i wouldn’t exactly say that i was not a competitive freshman applicant based on my stats; either way, I would still give it a try.</p>
<p>The more i consider these two schools, the more similar they seem to become. It’s funny how i would probably be fine at either school, yet right now the decision seems so momnetous.</p>
<p>For Brown to accept you a year later, there will have to be a significant upswing in your application, and achieving that in terms of academics and significant ECs is going to be difficult during you’re freshman year at McGill. </p>
<p>One of my classmates from McGill successfully applied as a transfer student to an ivy (ranked higher than Brown) at the end of his sophomore year while another transferred to a Top-20 school at the end of freshman year. So it can be done, but nevertheless it’s difficult.</p>
<p>Like the other posters have said, McGill and UofT aren’t very academically different: large, competitive publics with a strong research focus.</p>
<p>The few differences that come to mind easily have mostly to do with quality of life.</p>
<p>McGill is in downtown Montreal which in itself is a very different environment compared to downtown Toronto where UofTSG is.McGill’s campus is also more well defined and cohesive than UofT’s.</p>
<p>McGill has substantially more international students than UofT. It might not seem like a big deal at this moment, but when you are 17, being in an international atmosphere like McGill’s really opens your mind and stretches the possibilities! </p>
<p>For what it’s worth, McGill tends to have better name recognition overseas, as evidenced by the many international students who apply and later enroll. However, name recognition isn’t going to get you into top grad schools, top grades will.</p>
<p>Being in Trinity might be a different experience, but I’ve always thought of UofT on the whole as a largely commuter school. In that sense, McGill offers a more traditional campus experience. However, if you’re searching for school spirit you’d be better off at Queens or even UWO.</p>
<p>Trin is part of U of T! You will find a more intimate community at many of the U of T colleges, not just at Trin. That is the beauty of a large university that is set up in the college system.</p>
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<p>Not true. U of T has approximately 8,000 international students. I’m doubtful that McGill has even that number, let alone substantially more.</p>
<p>In terms of full time undergraduates (which concerns the OP), while UofT has about a 1000 more internationals, its undergraduate student body is also double the size of McGill’s and dispersed over three campuses (as are the international students) thus greatly diluting the international feel. </p>
<p>I’ve spent time on both university campuses and UofT still feels like a regional school in terms of where it sources its student body from. At the end of the day, UofT’s student body just doesn’t have the international flair of McGill’s.</p>
<p>I live in Toronto and I frequently visit U of T for lectures and special events. I got into Trinity and McGill this year, but I know for a fact that U of T lowers your GPA by at least half a grade unless you are super good. Some of my friends are TAs in U of T and they said that U of T has a quota, in that only a certain percentage of the students are to have As. Everyone else who fall below that, get the rest, which could be a problem for grad school or transfers. </p>
<p>I think McGill’s international reputation is better, as it’s frequently ranked higher than U of T internationally. In terms of class size, the freshmen year class size is similar for both schools.</p>
<p>I visited McGill a couple weeks ago and actually didn’t like it at all, so I’m leaning towards Toronto right now. I’m going on a tour of the latter in a week or so (very last minute, I know…I’ve been caught up in IB exams) and see if it’s any better.</p>
<p>I’ve been reading threads on whether McGill or Toronto has the better international reputation, and it appears that nobody can really come to a consensus.</p>
<p>So as of now, I suppose that I’m leaning towards Trinity, although I’m still quite scared of the bell curve! Any idea about what percentage of students can maintain an A average at Toronto? :S</p>
<p>I’m not entirely sure I understand your rationale. By far the most respected international ranking systems for universities are the ARWU (Shanghai Jiao Tong) and the THE (Times Higher Education). Have you considered that both of these ranking systems put U of T and McGill higher than Brown? The ARWU has U of T #27 in the world, McGill #61, and Brown #65. The THE has U of T #17, McGill #35, and Brown #55.</p>
<p>So, if you are concerned about reputation (which seems to be the case), then I suggest you go to U of T and stay there!</p>
<p>However, university ranking systems can be pretty narrow and silly, so I would not recommend that anyone choose their school based on some artificial score table. If Brown is indeed your “dream university” then you should go there (Providence is a nice town). I don’t think it will matter much whether you transfer there from U of T or McGill. Both are good schools and are recognized as such internationally. What WILL matter is your transcripts, reference letters, academic CV, etc.</p>
<p>As alwaysamom mentioned, which particular college you’re registered with at the University of Toronto doesn’t, in all reality, make a very big difference outside of (assuming you would be living in residence) which buildings you live in and have your meals at. Granted, having ‘Trinity College, Toronto’ on your resume may be more impressive than ‘Woodsworth College, Toronto’, but a lot of this is just a fading carry-over from the old days when it really did make a substantial difference. Chances are the great majority of your classes will be held all over the massive St. George campus, at colleges other than the one you’re registered with and random other buildings. </p>
<p>(The only reason I actually had a lot of classes at my college, St. Michael’s, during my undergrad at U of T, was because I specialized in philosophy, and a lot of philosophy courses happen to be taught there; and because I minored in Book and Media Studies, which is a special St. Mike’s program, its courses only taught in St. Mike’s buildings.)</p>
<p>It isn’t meaningless – I don’t deny that real, unique, more intimate communities within the greater U of T community exist at the colleges – but it isn’t nearly as meaningful as it is at, say, Oxbridge.</p>
Your comparison should be between U of T and McGill, with Trin not entering into the equation. Have you visited both? If you’re planning on a transfer attempt after first year, I’m not sure why you’re even coming to Canada, assuming you’re in the U.S. Keep in mind that as tomofboston said, transfer to Brown is difficult, especially if you were not competitive for freshman admission. As for sense of community, I can say that U of T’s college system allows for this in a positive way. I can’t speak to the issue re: McGill. Perhaps tomofboston can provide some insight there.</p>
You will find a more intimate community at many of the U of T colleges, not just at Trin. That is the beauty of a large university that is set up in the college system.</p>