UBC vs UofT vs McGill??

Student Lounge International Students
1

I’m a dual Canadian-American citizen who lives in California, US and am just starting my senior year in high school. I’m looking to go to university in Canada since it’s significantly cheaper than pretty much any college in the States.

I have a 3.4 UW/ 3.7 W GPA with 7 APs (4s and 5s) and 1420 SAT. I don’t really have any extracurriculars.

I don’t know what I want to major in either, but I like psychology, theatre, social justice/equity studies and I know I don’t like subjects like engineering, comp sci, or chemistry. With that being said, I’m not sure if I’ll be doing a graduate degree since it would be dependent on my major. I consider myself pretty intelligent, artistic, and competitve, but definitely not Ivy League-level smart. (Also side note, I speak english and understand some spanish and cantonese but know zero french)

I know UofT is the most “prestigious” but if it’s just bragging rights and doesn’t make much of a difference to employers (I don’t know if it does), it doesn’t really matter to me. I don’t usually talk to my teachers, so I don’t think “being a number” would be that big of a problem to me. What matters to me is a low amount of debt (my parents aren’t paying for anything), good quality education, friends on campus, and getting a job after.

I’ll be living on campus, but the amount of partying or sports or nightlife or beaches doesn’t matter to me. I don’t like parties or going to restaurants anyway (I have anxiety and am very introverted). I do enjoy going to musicals/plays, movie theatres, coffee shops, street fairs (things like that) with friends, but I’m not a clubs and bars person.

In terms of what kind of city I like, I really like Berkeley and San Francisco (the weather, how it looks, diversity, how liberal it is, the general atmosphere) and prefer it to cities like NY or Chicago. I like cool weather, and hate hot weather (I can’t comment on very cold weather since I live in CA, but i think i’d like it more than like 35 C summers here).

My ideal school was UC Berkeley, but I have no idea how that relates to Canadian universities. Unfortunately I can’t visit the campuses because I live in CA :confused:

Thank you for any responses!!

2

Unless I’m seriously misinformed here, you’d get a pretty comparable experience at any of the three if you just want to go into a general arts major like psych, and you’d be a competitive applicant at all three, too. All three rank more or less alongside top U.S. publics like UC Berkeley, with McGill and UofT closer to the top and UBC trailing a bit behind. Nonetheless, academic factors being equal, you’d have to decide based on other factors.

McGill would probably be the cheapest option (always good), but if you’re put off by UofT’s intense study culture, then McGill might not be a good fit for you either. It’s a bit more laid back, but not by a lot. UBC is probably worth looking into the most of the three, extrapolating from you saying that you “prefer San Francisco to New York.” Also, it’d be closer to home in California.

You’re right in that name-brand prestige doesn’t matter much outside of specialty programmes (like business and engineering), especially if you’re seriously considering grad school. However, with future employment prospects in mind, you might also want to look into UWaterloo, which I believe offers one of its coop (essentially job placement while in university) programmes in psych.

Finally, a personal opinion: for your own sake, if you want to avoid drowning in debt and have a reasonable shot at landing a good job, please don’t major in theatre or any sort of social justice/cultural studies field.

3

A 3.4 UW GPA would make McGill a bit of a reach for Arts. Toronto and Montreal are very cold and snowy in winter. Would you be comfortable in the bilingual environment of Montréal? You really should visit both cities.

4

With a 3.4 UW GPA all three will be a reach. There are many other good schools in Canada so broaden your list. Also, your CSU’s will be competitive in terms of cost with your Canadian options so keep them in play as well. I have a D18 in socal who is also a dual citizen and considering Canadian and US options. Good luck.

5

For psych, U of T requires HS calculus. If you’ve got that, then you’ve got a shot. All 3 will require individual SAT scores of at least 600 (for U of T and UBC) and 650 (for McGill).

Toronto is a lot less cold and snowy than Montreal.

6

I think that you should also consider other universities in Canada, such as U. of Victoria, Simon Fraser, and U. of Calgary (picking three very good schools that are relatively closer to you than other good schools in Canada). For someone from California, Victoria will have the easiest winters for you to get used to.

French is not needed at all to attend and do well at any of the schools mentioned so far on this thread. If you go to McGill (which is a reach with a 3.4), then picking up a little bit of French might make four years in Montreal more interesting, but is something that you can pick up in your first year there and is not necessary. I do find that if I walk into a store or restaurant in Montreal and ask a question in French, they immediately switch to English (clearly a hint of my ability in French) and usually seem to give better service since I at least tried.

Be aware that Toronto and to a slightly lesser extent McGill will be quite challenging. In the US if you can get into a top university and did so without any “hooks” then you can do well there also. In Canada this is not so true since the top schools are relatively easier to get into compared to top schools in the US but are NOT any easier academically.

My daughters and I also have dual US / Canadian citizenship. The cost is indeed a reason to prefer schools in Canada, but there are other reasons also. You mentioned that you have very little ECs. This will be much less of an issue in Canada (they mostly care about grades, SATs, and references). You will gain a slightly different view of the world (although this would also be true in a different way if you were to go to school in, for example, Texas). Since you have both Canadian and US citizenship, I think that there is something to be said for having lived in both countries at some point in your life.

7

I don’t disagree with the original poster’s observations or any of the comments in reply, so far.

I would add a few points. The well-known ranking sources (UNWR, Times Higher Education, QS, etc.) generally put UofT as #1, then UBC as #2 and McGill as #3. See USNWR (see: https://www.usnews.com/education/best-global-universities/canada?int=9cd108). But McGill has a persistently strong U.S. reputation (especially in the northeast) as being sort of like an Ivy League school, and it is well-recognized in Europe and elsewhere, arguably on par with, or even above, UofT, in notoriety and reputation. Given the higher proportion of American and other international students at McGill, there is a strong global alumni network (although UofT and UBC are increasing their international recruiting focus and are already quite well-known, internationally). I personally think the aforementioned rankings are overblown in importance and over-precise (in the link above to USNWR, UofT gets a score of 82, UBC gets 78, and McGill gets 74.9–sort of ridiculous, given the multitude of different qualities of these three excellent universities–it’s sort of like saying that Robert DeNiro has an actor’s score of 86.5 while Al Pacino gets 84.2 and Dustin Hoffman is at 80.2–really? says who, exactly? and on what criteria?).

Where I am getting to is that I think that you might be best-off going to UBC, of the three schools you’ve asked about. The weather would be best and by far the most similar to the San Francisco Bay area, and would be closest to you in California, and on the same time zone (if that’s relevant, and I expect it might be or should be).

I don’t think that you’d lose any career traction by choosing UBC vs. UofT or McGill, and it seems to be a good fit with some of your preferences. It also might be (very marginally) easier than UofT and McGill for you to shine at.

Just some quick thoughts. I don’t think you can go wrong at any of these schools, and, as DadTwoGirls says, there are other good choices in Canada (like the ones that he mentions, and others as well).

8

They’re all big publics. In rigor and weather, UToronto and McGill would be comparable to UMich and UW-Madison while UBC would be comparable to UW-Seattle.



I don’t know what their criteria are for Americans, but you can look online. If American GPA is considered, you definitely should look at other Canadian schools as well.

9

You say your parents won’t pay anything? That will make college in Canada very difficult. Even though tuition is reduced for Canadian citizens, the cost of attendance will still be around $15-20K/year. You cannot borrow that much as a student, unless your parents are willing to co-sign loans. Will you qualify for financial aid?

10

The vast majority of aid at Canadian universities is need-based. Have you ever lived in Canada? If so, your aid would come from the last province you live lived in (for at least 12 months). But, like the US, your need will be based off your parents’ income.

11

With a 3.4 UW GPA and 1420 SAT, Arts at McGill is definitely not a solid match, but I’d hesitate to call it more than a low reach. From following this year’s cycle, quite a few Americans with around those stats got in fairly early on, and McGill’s stats-only admissions means you can’t chalk that up to legacy or essays or what have you. Since the application deadlines aren’t until January, @sl6223, maybe consider retaking the SAT?

12

The 1420 is fine, it is the 3.4 UW GPA that would make McGill a low reach.

13

Oh! Thank you so much for your responses! I’m sorry I haven’t answered back (in like a week! yikes!) but i think my notifications weren’t on!

14

@KingBiBi Thank you for the reply! I’m not against the intense study culture of UofT (in fact I kind of like it, because my HS is really competitive and i’m pretty used to the environment) and do expect to work harder in college than high school. I’m just worried about not being able to keep up and having to transfer to another school. Also thanks for mentioning Waterloo! I have that on my list, but I didn’t really know a lot about it.
Haha, yeah as much as I love arts, I’m pretty sure I won’t major in it because of how hard it is to find work and how terrible the pay usually is.

15

Hmm, I was worried 3.4 was going to be too low for these schools, so thanks for telling me! (I’m just finished junior year, so I’m expecting my GPA to rise a little after senior year but I didn’t want to exaggerate). I’m planning on applying to UWaterloo and McMaster as well, but I’ll definitely look into some more! Also, about my SAT, I’ll be taking it 2 more times so hopefully I can get my score up. :slight_smile:

@bouders I FORGOT ABOUT THE CALC REQUIREMENT THANK YOU FOR TELLING ME I’m just now changing my classes for next year so thank you for saving my life.

My ECs are only really being members of school clubs (i haven’t been in any club for more than 2 years which might not look good) and I’ve only been in a leadership role once in sophomore year. I’m learning ukulele and have some hobbies like painting, knitting but nothing really important like sports or founding a club or something like that.

Thanks for making me feel better about preferring UBC, I’m glad that the three aren’t too different in terms of difficulty and how they’re viewed. Seeing as how I’m probably a reach for these schools, UBC is probably the one I could do the best in if I get in. Also about my preferences in location, these are much much less important to me than academics. I’m don’t mind if it’s “not like home” because I don’t plan to come back to California or visit my parents a lot. As long as it’s not as hot, I feel like I could learn to like it. Saying that though, I do like the aesthetic appeal of Vancouver and UBC…

THANK YOU SO MUCH for your help, I’m really sorry I didn’t see the responses earlier!!

16

@PurpleTitan Ooh, thank you for those comparisons! As much as I don’t want to sound like a US-centric idiot, I really only know a lot about US universities. UW Seattle is one of my top schools but it was too expensive, so if UBC is comparable to it, that’s perfect! :slight_smile:

17

About my finances, my parents are refusing to loan me money or co-sign for loans (my father really hates me, and wants no involvement with me after he’s “not responsible for me anymore”. not that he ever was involved but whatever).
I don’t qualify for any financial aid (according to FAFSA) because my father makes a lot of money.

I have $2k saved up (and i’ll be tutoring once senior year starts) but obviously that’s not that much. Community colleges or CSUs are even more expensive than Canadian unis I believe, since the cost of attendance for CSUs are about $25k USD per year. Even the local community college costs $20k USD per year because I’d have to pay for an apartment (i’m not allowed to live in my parent’s house after I’m 18).

I know I have a terrible plan (or lack of one) but to be honest I don’t know what other choice I have.

18

@ShrimpBurrito and @bouders So my finances are a… tricky situation. My father (the one who controls the money in the family) hates me, and is refusing to loan me any money or co-sign for loans. I don’t qualify for any financial aid (according to FAFSA) because my father makes >$120k a year and has a lot of assets (yes, I do think it’s ironic that he’s buying himself a new car and stereo system when I skip lunches because I’m trying to save money but whatever).

I’ve never lived in Canada, so it won’t be based on province. I have $2k saved up (and will be tutoring when senior year starts), but that’s obviously not very much. In comparison to community colleges and CSUs, the cost of attendance would be more ($20-25k USD) since I’m not allowed to live in my parents’ home after I’m 18. I know I have a terrible plan (or lack of one) here, but to be honest I don’t know what other choice I have.

19

About my finances, that’s a bit of a tricky situation. My father hates me so he’s refusing to loan me any money or co-sign for loans. I don’t qualify for any financial aid (according to the FAFSA) because my father makes >$120k USD a year and has a lot of assets. I have $2k saved up (and will be tutoring when senior year starts) but obviously it’s not that much. I know I have a terrible plan (or lack of one), but to be honest i don’t really know what other choice i have.

Also in comparison to community colleges or CSUs, the cost of attendence at those would be more ($20-25k USD) since I’m not allowed to live in my parent’s house after i’m 18.

20

@ShrimpBurrito and @bouders So my finances are a… tricky situation. My father (the one who controls the money in the family) hates me, and is refusing to loan me any money or co-sign for loans. I don’t qualify for any financial aid (according to FAFSA) because my father makes >$120k a year and has a lot of assets (yes, I do think it’s ironic that he’s buying himself a new car and stereo system when I skip lunches because I’m trying to save money but whatever).

I’ve never lived in Canada, so it won’t be based on province. I have $2k saved up (and will be tutoring when senior year starts), but that’s obviously not very much. In comparison to community colleges and CSUs, the cost of attendance would be more ($20-25k USD) since I’m not allowed to live in my parents’ home after I’m 18. I know I have a terrible plan (or lack of one) here, but to be honest I don’t know what other choice I have.