At a sporting event yesterday one of the parents of a Jr. at our school was asking me, since we have kids/nieces/nephews in college whether it was better when applying the UCs to have a high UC GPA or a high “regular” GPA.
Because our school is a +/- school (2.66, 3.0, 3.33, 3.66, 4.0) and apparently UC’s drop those +/- in their calculations this Dad was explaining that their Jr. is a “minus” kid. Went through Soph year with 4 A- and a B- (one AP) to end up with a 3.46, but if you do a UC calculation, he said it works out to a 4.0 UC capped grade (I guess 4x4 + 3 + AP point/5).
He’s trying to figure out if he should push his kid to get a more solid “Regular” GPA or if his kid should concentrate on getting any B/B+'s to A-, even if it means more A- or B- so he gets the “over 4.0” for UCs. He’s anticipating strong enough SAT/ACT based on psat/practice to be in the running for top 5 UCs based on testing, but grades are obviously a concern.
I didn’t really know what to tell him. (And I’m not sure you can get a HS Jr to “engineer” their grades that much,) but I do know for one of my kids, they were able to drop one test for their AP science and seeing it was impossible to pump their grade from a B + to an A- even with 100% on the final just didn’t study for one class in order to put more time into the other 5 so there’s probably stuff his kid could do in the margins.
Anyway - anyone with any insight into whether the UCs would look more favorably on 3.46 UW GPA if the UC Capped GPA was 4.1 or so, or if they’d rather see a 3.6 (A, A, B+, B+, B+ 1AP) even if it meant a 3.6 UC Capped as well.
It’s an odd situation I hadn’t thought of. My advice was first that it is probably most important to make sure you make the cut-off for automatic admissions if UC is critical to your finances. But then you have to be ok with Merced in a worse case scenario.
I’m sure the UCs see it more than once (with 100k apps per year they must.) I wonder if they have a protocol/preference. Kind of an interesting situation (I’ll never know why schools don’t just report the 100% scale scores - the 4.0 is such a weird blunt instrument anyway.)
Anyone have any insight?
This is my take about the UC’s and GPA’s. The UC’s consider all GPA’s, UW, Capped Weighted and Fully Weighted. The GPA’s listed on the UC websites are usually the Capped Weighted UC GPA while UCLA/UCB will also list their Fully weighted averages for their Freshman profile.
Since the UC’s mainly use the capped weighted UC GPA, having a 3.46 UW GPA (10-11th grades?) would at most translate to a 3.86 UC capped weighted GPA which is below the 25th percentile for all but 3 UC campuses (UCSC/UCR/UCM). I can see a fully weighted UC GPA reaching above 4.0 with that UW GPA if the student took more the 8 semesters of AP or UC approved Honors course 10-11th grade.
UC’s are very GPA focused and highly consider HS course rigor especially for Engineering majors. It is a fine balance between getting good grades and maintaining a rigorous HS schedule. My advice is that each student should select AP classes that interest them since they will have a higher chance of success (better grades) but also be aware of what their HS considers a rigorous schedule. Each applicant’s HS course rigor will be determined in the context of what is offered at their HS.
Like I stated it is a fine balance when it comes to try and determine if a student should forgo rigorous courses to help bump up their GPA. Senior year is a busy year, so easing back on some of the rigor will not have a huge impact on an applicant’s chances since UC’s do not consider Senior grades in their admission decisions (unless asked in an augmented review which is not that common 15% of applicants).
So at this point, this Junior needs to do well in their current classes and figure out their UC GPA both capped weighted and fully weighted at the end of the year. Once the UC GPA is known, along with test scores, then this student can come up with a solid list of safety/match and reach schools in the UC system.
https://rogerhub.com/gpa-calculator-uc/
Make sure this Junior considers other schools than the UC’s. Any ABET accredited school for Engineering will give them an excellent education which includes many of the Cal states and their programs are comparable to several of the UC’s.
The only GPAs that UC admission readers see are the recalculated ones where +/- are dropped in the calculations.
@ucbalumnus I did not know that. Do they only see the UC Capped or do they also see the unweighted and uncapped weighted with +/- dropped?
@Gumbymom
But couldn’t an UW 3.46 for 10 Soph/jr classes be 8 A- (3.66 x 8) and 2 B- (2.66 x 2) with 2 soph classes being Ap/Honors and 2 Jr classes Ap/honors?
If my quick napkin calcs are correct that would give you:
3.46 “regular” UW
3.86 “regular” Weighted
3.80 UC UW
4.20 UC CAPPED WEIGHTED
What the dad pointed out that was interesting is he got the same UC numbers if the kid got
8 A’s and 2 B+ with 2 soph and 2 jr. AP/Honors
3.8 “regular” UW
4.2 “regular” weighted
3.80 UC UW
4.20 UC Capped weighted
Am I doing something wrong with those calcs? I think that’s right…
UC’s cap their honors points at 8 semesters so only 4 year long AP classes taken in 10-11th are counted. Fully weighted would be an unlimited # of semesters of AP classes taken 10-11th. If you use the RogerHub calculator, using 8 A’s and 2 B’s (assuming year grades for 5 classes/year) since UC’s do not use +/-, then the UW UC GPA is 3.80, capped weighted is 4.20 and Fully weighted at 4.60. Not sure where the 3.46 UW is coming from unless you are including the +/- in the calculation or using Freshman grades or using non a-g courses, which the UC’s and CSU’s do not use.
Edited: Are the students grade posted per/semester or per/year? This makes a difference in the calculation also. If semester then the student should have 10 grades/year vs. 5 grades/year?
@gumbymom
Exactly, but a kid with 4 A- and a B - for Soph and Jr. year gets same UC grades as a kid with 4As and a B+.
I just hadn’t realized how wide the spread could be. Alternately, I guess, you could get 4 B+'s and 1 A Soph and Jr. year with 4 Ap/honors total and get
3.46 “regular” UW
3.86 “regular” weighted
3.20 UC UW
3.60 UC capped weighted
I knew there could be a spread, but hadn’t realized how wide it could be. So for that dad, he should probably do what he can to encourage his kid to get A- rather than B+,even if it means dropping a potential B+ to a B-…
Quirky.
The UC’s will still look at each applicants grades for the a-g courses taken 9-11th grades, their course rigor within the context of what is offered at their HS and the # of a-g courses taken above the minimum requirements. Many students try to game the system by taking the minimum honors courses to maximize their GPA. There is a spread but the UC’s know all the tricks. HS students should not mold their applications to any one particular school or schools. They should take courses that interest them whether they are Regular/Honors/AP/IB or DE and make sure they meet their HS graduation requirements along with college admission requirements.
The UC will not request a transcript from the high school until yoi decide to go there. So how your high school calculates GPA doesn’t matter at all. Only how UC does it. As posted above use 4 for all As and 3s for all Bs, no plusses or minuses for 10 and 11 and that’s the unweoghted gpa. Add a maximum of 8 weighted semesters for the UC capped GPA.
@Gumbymom
I’m not talking about tricks, I was looking at the possible spread. I hadn’t realized that a 3.46, which most “regular schools” would see first as that GPA, then look into distribution of grades, could result in anything from a 3.2 UC GPA to a 4.2 depending on the distribution.
I had always assumed the UCs saw the school’s GPA as well as the UC calculated.
Now, very few high school students can “engineer” their grades to the point where they can decide - ok, I’ll do just enough for a B- in this course cause it will let me pump up a B+ to an A- here, but that would be a good trade to make if you could manage it.
Anyway, just an academic exericise, but I had not realized the UC readers saw only UC grades.
The UC application uses self-reported grades for the a-g courses but applicants can also list non a-g courses/grades also. Final transcripts are not required until the student enrolls at their choice UC, but it is important to make sure that all self-reported grades/test scores etc… are accurate since discrepancies could result in rescinding an admission offer.
What I see most often is that some students will only take up to the 8 semesters of Honors/AP type courses due to the cap and think it is a waste to take anymore but UC’s consider HS course rigor beyond the cap, it just not weighted into the GPA or slide Freshman year thinking these grades will not make a difference. All grades are considered just not all in the GPA calculation.
All I can say is at least the UC’s are transparent on how they calculate their GPA’s, while many schools are not.
@Gumbymom
I’m not arguing against (or for) the UC system, I was just surprised.
But you say the UCs consider HS rigor, but the others here say the don’t even see the transcript until after acceptance.
How would they consider rigor then? Do students self report APs/Honors above the cap?
Do student self-report 9th grade grades?
On the UC application, you will list all a-g courses including UC approved Honors/AP/IB/DE courses taken 9-11th with corresponding grades along with planned Senior courses.
What you list for 9-11th grades/courses needs to match your final transcripts, so any discrepancies will be issue.
Got it. So they know self-reported 9th grade grades (and any/all AP/honors) but just don’t use them in the calculation.
thx.
In Summary, for UC admission, it is beneficial to take the most challenging courses that you are likely to get at least A-, and distribute your resources to maximize number of A-s, rather than getting some A+/A with some B+, for 10th and 11th grade.
@sculptordad - that would go for 9th grade too, I guess, since you’re self-reporting those as “straight” letter grades.
Even if not calculated in the UC GPA a reader could use them in the calculus.
@CaliDad2020 , I have a slightly different view for 9th. UC excluded 9th grade gpa for a reason and i think grade received in 9th won’t matter much even though adcom sees it. The classes will still be used to fulfill a-g requirement.
@SculptorDad
maybe, but I wouldn’t count on it. With 100k applications coming in, there’ got to be a slew of students with nearly identical stats.