<p>In response to my question, the College Counselor at school said that 97-98% of the kids accepted by UCLA and Berkeley are Californians. So, I asked, for out of staters, did that make those UCs as hard to get into as, say, Stanford? Well, maybe a tad easier, she speculated. </p>
<p>Does that sound correct to you? Periodically my S asks whether he should apply, and so it would be helpful to get a sense of the selectivity of those schools for out of staters. </p>
<p>Thanks, all.</p>
<p>No, actually it's equally hard if not harder to get into UC Berkeley and UCLA as an out of state student than it is to get into Stanford. I don't have the actual numbers at my finger tips but the acceptance numbers for out of state students to those two schools are comparable to Harvard and Yale - somewhere around or below 19% of out of state applicants are accepted. Admissions numbers overall are higher because they include instate applicants. Admissions to the other UC schools for out of state residents is somewhat easier.</p>
<p>Thanks, Carolyn. I appreciate your quick and knowledgeable reply! :)</p>
<p>The answer to the question for UCLA at least is that 8.9% of the US citizens admitted as freshmen in 2004 were from out of state, not 2-3% as your counselor said. That's a total of about 800 nonresidents admitted. </p>
<p>You can view these and other stats here:</p>
<p>An 8.9% admit rate is about the same as the overall admit rate for Harvard or Yale, although I think the Harvard and Yale admits have higher average stats than the UCLA out of state admits.</p>
<p>Hope this helps. Poking around I cannot put my hand on similar stats for Berkeley, but I'm guessing they are similar.</p>
<p>Berkeley Engineering out-of-state is about the same level as MIT,Harvard,Yale and probably harder than Stanford.Good luck with Berkeley Engineering... people in there are amazingly smart.</p>
<p>Thank you, coureur and irock1ce. :)</p>
<p>Actually, schools such as UCSD also employ a hard-and-fast 4%/12% rule - if you are not in the top 12% of your school by rank, or top 4% in the state, with very, very rare exceptions they won't even look at your application. What this means is that literally several thousand students get into Ivy League and equivalent schools each year who can't get into UCSD.</p>
<p>Coureur, That same link said that 10.9% of UCB admits were out of state residents for 2004. But that isn't the same as the actual admittance rate for out of state applicants, just the number of out of state enrollees. I know somewhere on the UCOP site there are actual numbers that show applicants and acceptances for out of state students. I remember the admit rate was comparable to Harvard and Yale. If I have time I'll try to dredge up the information.</p>
<p>If you have very high SATs(>1500) and SAT IIs (>780), and 4.0 UW GPA, UCs (even Berkely) are easier then Stanford. They are less picky about the "extra hooks" if the numbers are outstanding.</p>
<p>I don't think it's quite as hard as Stanford, but it is pretty hard to get into UCLA and Berkeley. </p>
<p>Honestly, there just seems to be little incentive for an out-of-state student to apply to UC schools. They're expensive, as expensive as a private institution, moreover the financial aid is much worse. That's kinda what made me decide not to apply to UCLA.</p>
<p>I don't have the link for it, but I recall that Berkeley's acceptance rate was 16% for out of state and 24% for in state. Out of state students make up a tiny percentage (less than about 10%) of all the UCs, but their applicant numbers are also smaller.</p>
<p>That sounds about right IM_blue.</p>
<p>I'm looking at a 2004-2005 brochure for UC Berkeley with Fall 2004 Freshman Admissions Data (from Office of Undergraduate Admissions data):</p>
<p>California Residents: Applicants 30,341; Admitted 7,788; % Admitted: 26%; Enrolled 3,428</p>
<p>Domestic Non-residents: Applicants: 4,653; Admitted: 984; 21% admitted; Enrolled: 279</p>
<p>International students: Applicants: 1,777; Admitted: 214; 12% admitted; enrolled: 114</p>
<p>I'm surprised that the admit rate for domestic non-residents is so high for Berkeley. 21% is definitely far above HYP rates. Domestic non-residents make up 7.3% of the entering class.</p>
<p>The UC's try to keep non-state residents at 10% or below. Ellem - you really shouldn't be too surprised at the high admit rate relative to selectivity. For instate kids, its easy to apply to all UCs at one time -- one app for all, no recs required -- if you pay the fees. Thus, typically, if one gets into Berkeley, they also get into UCLA and vice versa. Of course, if one gets into Berkeley or UCLA, its almost automatic that they are accepted at the less prestigious UCs. In any event, a kid can make a choice in May. Since the stats of non-hooked apps at UCB and UCLA are not disimilar to those that apply to the HYPs and top LACs, I'd suggest that kids get into both UCB and an top private school, and, fortunatley, get to choose, particularly since out of state tuition is not cheap. But, its just a supposition.</p>
<p>they admitted about 21% but only about half that enrolled so they may be kids who have UCs as a safety?
If my child wasn't getting merit an out of state school would be very expensive. Private schools with nice endowments can be more attractive especially financially.</p>
<p>"they admitted about 21% but only about half that enrolled so they may be kids who have UCs as a safety?" I would guess that there a lot of students admitted to both UCB and UCLA, and many from southern california would choose UCLA. Surveys show that the vast majority of college students choose a college within 2 hours from home.</p>
<p>The UC regents approved the fee hike for next year yesterday --- nonresidents will pay $24,589 in fees and tuition (room and board extra). Costs also going up for residents, with less financial aid available:
<a href="http://ucnewswire.org/news_viewer.cfm?story_PK=4348&CFID=166124&CFTOKEN=950E0DB3-144E-AB56-DB99864EA6FAAA25%5B/url%5D">http://ucnewswire.org/news_viewer.cfm?story_PK=4348&CFID=166124&CFTOKEN=950E0DB3-144E-AB56-DB99864EA6FAAA25</a></p>
<p>I know that many CA applicants who apply to HYP also apply to UCB and UCLA (as "safeties"--although I know of one kid who was accepted at H and rejected by UCLA). It looks like many out of staters also apply to Berkeley, get accepted but don't attend--I'm guessing because of the lack of financial support spotlighted by Carolyn.</p>