UMichigan Full Ride vs.Yale

Colleges and Universities A-Z University of Michigan
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Well, there you have it. D has the top merit scholarship at UMich, and for in-state (we are) it is a true full ride. We do not have final FinAid numbers from Yale yet, but let’s assume it would be a stretch. Her major is Neuroscience. Definitely grad school in her future, but unsure if Med or PhD. Please give input; I’m dying here.

@Musicmom2015‌ @Lisn123 @billcsho‌ @Alexandre
I am tagging some CC’ers that I would love to have input from. I see that @viphan already committed to Duke. Congrats Viphan.

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“Her major is Neuroscience.”

Random thoughts as they occur. Michigan’s program may not be #1 in neuro, but it is close. Michigan has a great med school for both primary care and for med research. Michigan has great track record for getting kids into medical school as well. UM med. has a student body with an elite profile. Yale is Yale and would be a great credential for anyone who stops short of professional credentials and the undergrad degree would certainly be more well known than Michigan. At the professional level the difference in reputation is probably not that large though Yale would still hold an edge.

Possible considerations: Michigan is building a new $260,000,000 bio building, a new $160,000,000 pathology building and may actually be larger than Yale in terms of NIH money (would have to research). Michigan has also poured about 1,000,000 sq/ft in concrete for life sciences facilities since the year 2000 and may have some of the best such facilities in the country. Michigan is also very heavy on the technology and engineering side as well as big on forming collaborations between/among schools (biomedical engineering being an example. Last thought on facilities: Michigan bought 1,700,000 sq/ft from Pfizer…pretty much state of the art labs and now home to a giant health policy institute…one of the largest in the country.

Bottom lines, Yale has immediate global brand recognition; there are no limits at Michigan for a bright student and the resources are almost unlimited, the brand recognition is probably not comparable.

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Thanks @ClueBus !

Have you run the NPC yet for Yale? It should be similar, given that the financial situation remained same from the previous years.

If the cost is not too over-burdening, I would choose Yale. I know a friend who I’ve met during the Shipman Weekend already committed to Yale. Also, don’t forget to ask your child!

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Yale is a top 5 university, while Michigan is a top 15 university. Michigan’s academic and reputational peers are Cal, Cornell, Duke, Northwestern and Penn, while Yale’s peers are Harvard, MIT, Princeton and Stanford. In other words, Yale is only a tiny notch above Michigan.

Is Yale worth the extra cost? It depends on your financial situation. Generally speaking, I do not think Yale is $200k better than Michigan. I do not even think it is $50k better than Michigan. The difference in quality between Michigan and Yale is truly insignificant. There isn’t a single door that Yale can open that Michigan cannot open just as easily.

Plus Ann Arbor is way nicer than New Haven! :wink:

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When Pfizer shut down at Ann Arbor, most employees were reluctant to relocate to New Haven. Perhaps that may tell you something. I just happen to have a PhD in Neuroscience and know quite a few faculties doing research in that area at UMich. Although I don’t know much about the undergraduate program in Neuroscience, the research there are really great. The director of the Molecular Behavior and Neuroscience Institute is one of the former presidents of the Neuroscience Society which is among the largest biological scientist organisation with 30,000+ people attending their annual meeting from all over the world every year. UMich also encourage undergraduates to do research. One way is through their UROP program. You may also use UROP as work study if eligible. So your D will be well prepared no matter which route she will take afterward.

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If your daughter is not head over heels for Yale (and maybe even then), I would go with Michigan. What an amazing scholarship!

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@cluebus I feel your pain! We had to make a very similar choice. For us, the MI scholarship was closer to full tuition than full ride, but still wonderful. My S also had a few other merit awards at other schools, but this was his top choice among them. When he came home from Shipman weekend I could see him saying he should go there/consider it/ whatever. I said, l’m glad you liked it, let’s see what happens this week with the remaining schools. My concern all along was the fit, as everyone on cc says is so important. His dream school all along was Yale. Yale and Michigan are very different! I know that he could get an excellent education at either school. Are the “benefits” of Yale worth the cost? For us, we decided it was. It pained me to pass on $$ but my gut feels he will be much happier at Yale. I’m happy to PM you with details if you like. But, if you are still really unsure, maybe send her to bulldog days next week so she can compare them? Has she visited Yale? Does she love it? If she is ambivalent, then go with Michigan. Good luck!!

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If she’s considering grad school, might be wise to save money.
However, I know in the hard sciences, such as physics, it is possible to get into a top notch PhD program with a full stipend. I’m not sure how it is with neuroscience. It would be a good thing to look up.
I’m not especially familiar with med school plans. I think for that, most people save up.

I second what onceuponamom and Musicmom2015 say. The money might definitely be worth it for a more subjective benefit, such as if Yale has been her dream school since childhood and going there would make her extremely happy. If she also wants to stop her education at undergrad for any reason, then going to a top 5 school would most likely be better than top 15.

I just applied as a transfer student for Fall 2015 and am heavily considering UMich, so for what it’s worth, I can provide a bit of input on my decision process:

Since I’m primarily self-driven, I’m positive that I can do well practically anywhere, given sufficient resources (whatever schools I applied to–all in the top 100–I would seriously consider attending, which is why I applied in the first place). I don’t really have a “dream school” or preference for undergrad amongst those schools. I’m rather very oriented towards “what would get me where I want to be the most efficiently.”

Since I’m OOS for all (except one last-choice backup) and I applied to mostly private institutions, I expected to pay a full 55-65k/year no matter where I went. As a junior transfer, I was bracing for it. I got a full-tuition gift surprise from Michigan, the first school I heard back from, and though I still have apps pending for some peers like UPenn and Cornell, I decided that I would rather not be hard on my parents and myself in terms of money, and I would only consider acceptances from these schools if they offer similar packages.

I have plans to get my PhD at Caltech, MIT, Princeton, Stanford, etc. I’m still not sure what subfield of physics I’m interested in, so I need a lot of research experience. What Michigan offers me–as well as other schools like Hopkins and Cornell–all already might be more than I can even take advantage of, and no matter where I go, I’m striving to be at the top. Living without worry of student loans and debt while still attaining my future goals sounds like a dream come true.

Perhaps your D might consider the same. You said she has plans of continuing her education, so she definitely has another shot at Yale for grad school.

It is ultimately up to her, though. In terms of facilities, your D really can’t go wrong at either place, so you both should primarily consider “fit” and finances.

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I have a different take on it. If you can afford it after the financial aid from Yale, she should go there. First, it would be great for her to leave Michigan and be exposed to some of the brightest people in the world in a different part of the country. No one can deny the prestige of Yale, and it has opened many higher doors than Michigan has (there are exceptions, of course). Second, she would be in a non-Big Ten football school environment. It is much more academic there. As this year has proven, football is number one at U of M, especially for the undergraduates. Third, if she is unhappy there but does decently, she should be able to transfer anywhere, including to U of M. Fourth, if she does well there, she will able to get into most graduate and professional schools, including Michigan’s renowned graduate and professional schools.

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“I have a different take on it. If you can afford it after the financial aid from Yale, she should go there.”

There is affording, and then there is affording. Which one does the OP fall into? If the parents can afford it without burden, then I agree. But if they can afford it with difficulty and personal sacrifice, I do not think it is worth it. Yale is amazing, but Michigan is only one tiny notch below. The difference is really insignificant.

“First, it would be great for her to leave Michigan and be exposed to some of the brightest people in the world in a different part of the country.”

That makes sense, although I am not sure one needs to spend $250,000 for that experience. Her daughter can easily find a job outside of Michigan when she graduates, and she will be getting paid to do so.

“No one can deny the prestige of Yale, and it has opened many higher doors than Michigan has (there are exceptions, of course).”

Prestige? yes, although Michigan is not slouch in that department either. Opening more (or higher) doors? No. There isn’t a door that Yale can open that Michigan cannot open as easily or efficiently.

“Second, she would be in a non-Big Ten football school environment. It is much more academic there. As this year has proven, football is number one at U of M, especially for the undergraduates.”

That does not even make sense. Yale is not more “academic” or “intellectual” than Michigan. Both are about the same. Michigan has an additional dimension when it comes to athletics, but that does not take away from the academic rigor of the university, it merely adds to the University’s campus life. Those who wish to ignore athletics altogether, and many choose to do so, can go happily about their business. Schools like Duke, Michigan, Notre Dame, UNC, Stanford etc…are perfectly capable of running successful athletics programs without compromising their academic/intellectual atmospheres. At Michigan, academics, not football, is number one.

“Third, if she is unhappy there but does decently, she should be able to transfer anywhere, including to U of M.”

Nobody should go to a university with the thought of transferring.

“Fourth, if she does well there, she will able to get into most graduate and professional schools, including Michigan’s renowned graduate and professional schools.”

Same with Michigan. Michigan enrolls 50 students into its own Medical school every year. That is very significant considering how good Michigan Medical School is. Michigan also enrolls 3-5 students into most other top 20 medical schools annually.

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I constantly hear about the great financial aid that top elite private schools are affording students. Where’s the money from Yale? I’m sorry, but Yale is not worth tens of thousands of dollars/year more for a STEM degree over a school the caliber of Michigan. Actually IMHO, a substantial additional expense isn’t worth it for any undergraduate degree from Yale unless the family can easily afford the difference.

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" As this year has proven, football is number one at U of M, especially for the undergraduates."

That is a preposterous statement. Academics are number one at Michigan. It seems you are undervaluating, like so many here on CC, the overall academic excellence of the school. Even Yale isn’t as strong across the board as Michigan in its offerings, i.e. engineering.

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" As a junior transfer, I was bracing for it. I got a full-tuition gift surprise from Michigan, the first school I heard back from, and though I still have apps pending for some peers like UPenn and Cornell, I decided that I would rather not be hard on my parents and myself in terms of money, and I would only consider acceptances from these schools if they offer similar packages."

Intelligent decision eyo777. It seems Michigan has already started to offer more full scholarships then ever before. This is probably the result of the current Victors for Michigan campaign. As more top students get larger financial grants from the school, I assume we’ll be hearing more about top students attending Ann Arbor who might not have in the past. The future for the University of Michigan is very exciting!

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I’m a Yale alum and a Yale parent, and my wife majored in MB&B at Yale and went to Duke Med–so there’s my bias. I would still say that Michigan is the choice if the cost difference is large enough as to be burdensome to your family. What “large enough” means is really up to you to determine. If the costs were equal, and other things were equal, I’d say go to Yale, because I think it provides a really terrific educational experience.

But there is no bad option. Congrats.

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“If the costs were equal, and other things were equal, I’d say go to Yale, because I think it provides a really terrific educational experience.”

Totally agree as long as the student likes the school of course.

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Certainly–these schools are really close in overall quality, and anybody who prefers Michigan would be entirely reasonable to choose to go there over Yale, or any other college. If Yale is the better fit, then it becomes more about the money, and it matters how much money we’re talking about, and how it will affect this family.

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“If the costs were equal, and other things were equal, I’d say go to Yale, because I think it provides a really terrific educational experience.”

I would consider the Michigan experience just as terrific Hunt. Personally, I would choose Michigan over Yale because I prefer the culture at the University of Michigan, and I prefer Ann Arbor to New Haven.

That being said, there is no denying the fact that Yale is slightly better academically and reputationally, and if the OP likes Yale as much as Michigan (or better), and if cost of attendance is truly not a concern, Yale would be the way to go.

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The experience at either can be terrific, but it depends what the student is looking for. What is terrific for one is not terrific for all. Alexandre - do you have any experience with Yale? It is reasonable to love one’s own school, but I am just curious if you have a real comparison or are just emphasizing the attributes of Michigan. FWIW, I did my grad school at Michigan and I know it’s a great school. I just find these two schools quite different in the experience offered to the students. IF the money does not need to be the deciding factor, then student preference and fit should be.

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" IF the money does not need to be the deciding factor, then student preference and fit should be."

I think we all agree on that Musicmom2015.

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If possible, the student should attend accepted student events at both schools to get a better idea of fit–that is, if the financial aid decision from Yale doesn’t make Michigan the clearly sensible option.