<p>Clearly the OP’s son was NOT looking to spend $65 out of pocket…he wanted to get one of the most expensive laptops on the market. He didn’t “nicely refuse” an offer, he was trying to force his parents to get him exactly what he wanted…</p>
<p>I think the main problem here was that the OP was offering to provide for some but the son was taking advantage of that, thinking, well, since it’s Mom’s money I can get the most expensive thing there is without considering cost at all.</p>
<p>In the end the son admitted that he was just frustrated/angry and he was wrong…so that was very nice of him…working 10-15 hrs a week it is NOT hard to save up for books. He doesn’t have to work during the school year. He does have the whole summer, after all.</p>
<p>I think it would be nice if Mom helped him with the laptop costs as those things can be finnicky. But I don’t think it is mean to say, no, I can’t support this purchase if you are making it at the expense of your books.</p>
<p>I think OP told her son way before hand he will be responsible for books and personal expense. The son had plenty of time to save up for it, but he refused to because he took it for granted his parents would pay for it. We have always assumed we would pay for our kids books/computer (any educational related expenses), so it would not be right for us to change it midway. At the same time we have always made it clear that we expected her to work on campus and have a summer job. Even though we pay for d1’s books, she always find the cheapest books, and we actually spend less now than when she was in HS.</p>
<p>The issue is not what parents are paying, it is more of an entitlement issue. OP has made her point with the son, and he is getting it.</p>
<p>Yes, I would have him look into repairing the computer. We have done that. Both my kids work for their spending money. We pay for books, but each has made an effort to conserve.</p>
<p>I think it’s a hard, complicated world in a complicated economy. If parents and children are allies and not adversaries I think outcomes are better.</p>
<p>I understand this is not always possible. OP: It sounds like a wonderful resolution. Your son is obviously taking finances and his own responsibility more seriously and not dumping on you.</p>
<p>However (this is not for the OP – just in general) I think it’s worth remembering that different kids reach different developmental benchmarks at different ages. It’s not to punish parents – it’s just in their own template.</p>
<p>My own son did not get toilet trained until he was almost 4. I really didn’t like it, but there wasn’t much I could do. I tried. He didn’t walk until he was 15 months old. However, he talked at six months, read well at three and read music at 4.</p>
<p>My daughter crawled at 4 months but didn’t walk until 14 months.</p>
<p>I have endeavored to celebrate the things that come easily and be an ally for the things that come hard, all the while reminding them of where they had to get to, including financial independence.</p>
<p>My H’s father stressed it so much when he was young that he worked, saved money, bought a car, went to community college and then a SUNY but kind of fell apart later. HIs growth was all in one area and it didn’t hold up.</p>
<p>I am trying to teach problem solving and emotional maturity. Sometimes that means we pay; sometimes that means they pay. I have felt things necessary for their development that another parent might thing a frivolous indulgence, and I probably have felt the opposite on some issues that others think import (senior trip to Disney World for example.)</p>
<p>My soon to be college junior was home this summer briefly. We are paying for his college and books and travel to and from home two times a year, but anything else is on him. While he was home I asked him if there was anything I could get him like socks, underwear, jeans, or anything for his apartment that he didn’t have. His answer was I don’t have everything I want but I have everything I need. Oh my gosh my heart just melted. To the OP, let your son go through this and do his absolute best to replace or fix the laptop he broke and to figure his books out. It sounds like he’s on the correct path and if you decide to help him in the end, you will feel good about it and he will feel good because he solved his own dilemna before you “help out.”</p>
<p>Your S will likely ‘always’ know someone who has more and is given more than he is. This is just a fact of life and it’s better he gets over his entitlement mentality and jealousies now. </p>
<p>I’ll join the others in saying that he could skip the Macbook Pro and instead get a Dell (or Lenovo, or HP, etc.) PLUS pay for books for the first term. He can then get an on-campus job, or off-campus one, that could easily pay for his books for the rest of his duration.</p>
<p>I’m glad the OP has worked things out with her son, and I also agree that the new laptop request was out-of-line. That said, here’s the quote from the original post:</p>
<p>“We told him last summer that he needed to start planning for college and working more and saving money. We asked that he be responsible for his books and personal expenses during the school year such as haircuts, cell phone bill, clothing, school supplies, etc.”</p>
<p>I’m not sure it’s reasonable to give a kid one year’s notice that he is going to be responsible for his books and all those personal expenses throughout college. Particularly if his parents have been picking up all the personal costs for him in high school.</p>
<p>We told our rising-college-freshman son we’d be responsible for everything in college but his fun money and some cell phone costs that he’s had throughout high school. But we told him that from day one of high school so he could plan accordingly (and also made him save at least half of all cash gifts while in school). He’s worked full-time this summer and last, but not during school (we didn’t want him to). </p>
<p>Just like telling your kids what is and what isn’t affordable for tuition and room and board shouldn’t wait until the summer before senior year, neither should voicing your expectations about what they will have to pick up of their college expenses.</p>
<p>eireann - I think the other laptop is salvageable, but Apple quoted $500 to repair it. S did order some parts to try to fix it himself, but he has not been successful yet. I think he’s going to try a few more things and if it doesn’t work, he will sell it for parts. I’m just quietly letting him work this through on his own. His quest for the latest and greatest technology has gotten him into trouble over the years.</p>
<p>I am grateful for everyone’s support and advice!</p>
<p>Compmom…the OP clearly stated to their son that HE would be responsible for paying for certain things and the parents would pay for tuition/room/board. I’m sorry…this is the same deal we made with OUR kids UP FRONT. They knew that we were footing a huge amount of their college costs. It was not unreasonable for them to have part time jobs and pay for other expenses, books included.</p>
<p>If my kids had come to me with a good reason for ME to loan them money for something, I might have said yes. BUT from the OPs description, this young man was trying to lay a guilt trip on his parents for not doing what he viewed his friends parents doing…setting them up. </p>
<p>We bought each of our kids ONE computer. NO REPLACEMENTS. We bought one cell phone. We do not pay for books…and you know, both of them have found very good ways to save a lot of money purchasing books for their courses…not a bad lesson to learn.</p>
<p>I did NOT see the OP’s post as resentful at all. I’m glad that the OP updated this thread because it sounds like the son had a change of heart and realized his parents were already making huge contributions financially towards his education.</p>
<p>Northstarmom: Yes, I am buying my kids textbooks for college, thanks! And we’re providing her with a used computer, too. </p>
<p>And I didn’t read each and every post here, but each family sacrifices at different levels to help their children out with college. In our case, we settled for an in-state public college that was about $14K cheaper than the private one, even after taking merit scholarships into consideration. The upside is that she can graduate debt-free and we will be able help her with books, computers, etc. Maybe have $$ for her to do a study-abroad. Again, the OP stated that they are “upper middle class.” I just don’t get why MAKING your child work for or pay for college is necessary if you the parent can afford it.</p>
One reason - Regardless of the parents’ ability to pay maybe if they think their kid has come to ‘expect’ the parents to pay for everything, is exhibiting an entitlement mentality, and is otherwise acting like a spoiled child, the parents think the kid can learn some valuable lessons from working and contributing. It can teach some responsibility.</p>
<p>Another reason - Some kids abuse the priviledge of going to college on their parents’ dime and sometimes being on the hook for paying for some or all of the expenses themselves re-orients the kid’s mentality to buckle down more and make the most of what they’re spending their hard-earned dollars for.</p>
<p>Yet another reason - Some kids WANT to pay for some or all of it themselves. These kids achieve a certain level of satisfaction and feeling of (and actual) independence. (This doesn’t fit the ‘MAKE your child work…’ statement but it’s admirable when it happens)</p>
<p>I’ll add another reason: I want my son to feel, and be, competent. He can’t if I do everything for him and buy everything for him. Some parents do too much for their kids, which can send a subtle message to the kid that the parents think the kid can’t do whatever, that the kid isn’t competent. I don’t want my kid to get that message. I want him to know that yes, he CAN do it, whatever “it” is, and the best way to let him know that is for him to do it!</p>
<p>We had the chat about “skin in the game” with our kids when they were in middle school. Whether our EFC is $5k or $100k, they are expected to contribute. </p>
<p>Happily, both of our sons seem to have inherited the frugal gene from their parents. They are both happy to work – it gives them independence, responsibility, better time management skills and gives them a graduated way to learn about budgeting, paying bills, etc. While they don’t ask us for expensive gadgets, designer clothes and cars, they do know we are happy and thankful we can cover the major part of their education (thanks to that frugal gene), and they have lived up to their end of the bargain by doing very well in HS and earning choices for their futures.</p>
<p>S1 paid over 50% of COA at his school this year (and 50% is significantly more than the cost of our flagship), and will pay around 40% of each of the next three years. I cannot express how PROUD he is of that accomplishment. </p>
<p>S has also learned a lot about the types of jobs and work environments that work for him (or don’t). Having regular work hours helps him to be organized. Going to an office to work helps to reduce distractions and produces better work than sitting in the dorm lounge with his friendswhile trying to work. The applications to work-study skills and time management for academics should be clear. He has realized that having a busy schedule keeps him on task.</p>
<p>On the personal side, he has learned: There are a lot of cool things one can do without much money. Finding cheap textbooks is a challenge to be relished and reason for triumphant celebration when successful. Having one’s own money means he can go visit a GF or attend a conference without having to convince us of the merits. He has a new-found appreciation of payroll systems and the folks who run them.</p>
<p>OP, glad to hear the update. Your S demonstrated maturity in acknowledging that he was disappointed in himself and that he wanted to do better. And deciding to think about it before taking the loan – you have obviously gotten the message through to him, and is now realizing there is some merit to it. You gave him a year’s notice and made your expectations clear. Logical consequences seem…well, logical in this case.</p>
<p>“Again, the OP stated that they are “upper middle class.” I just don’t get why MAKING your child work for or pay for college is necessary if you the parent can afford it.”</p>
<p>Some parents like me believe that when students have to pay for some of their college costs, it helps them become more responsible and independent about their college experience, while it also helps them progress into the responsibilities of adulthood including learning how to figure out how to work a job in order to obtain the things that they want. </p>
<p>I remember feeling a lot of pride in the fact that while I was in college, I didn’t have an allowance, but was responsible for things like my books, phone, transportation home, clothing and social expenses. Because I was responsible for those things, my parents didn’t pay attention to how I spent my money, and that allowed me to learn how to plan ahead for things that I wanted, including things that my parents may have considered luxuries, but that I considered important such as high long distance phone bills to a boyfriend who lived out of town. </p>
<p>I didn’t feel resentful for having to pay for those things. I felt mature about being able to handle such responsibilities.</p>
<p>Neither of my sons expressed concern or resentment about having such responsibilities either. Younger S has been particularly good at budgeting and finding bargains when he needs things. While by his own choice, he isn’t working as many hours as I did during summers while I was in college, he also spends far less than I did on clothes, and he’s a more careful and less impulsive shopper than I’ll probably ever be.</p>
<p>My D does not have an entitlement mentality, nor does she act like a spoiled child. I do not feel that she is abusing us. She does not have too much spending money, nor does she use it for partying. She doesn’t ask for expensive gadgets, designer clothes and cars. She is, in fact, a hard worker…harder on herself than we ever are, both academically and at the jobs she has had. Maybe we are just lucky, but we’ve never had to hit her over the head with any of this. </p>
<p>Sorry, I should have left that last sentence in my earlier post out…as is obvious by the negative feedback that ensued. </p>
<p>Before my H and I had kids, we agreed that we would provide a college education for them…including textbooks and supplies. We took that into consideration with every financial decision we’ve ever made. Our kids have a different role…working hard academically, in the community and at a few part-time jobs that should help them grow personally and not just be about the money.</p>
<p>My D does not have an entitlement mentality, nor does she act like a spoiled child. I do not feel that she is abusing us. She does not have too much spending money, nor does she use it for partying. She doesn’t ask for expensive gadgets, designer clothes and cars. She is, in fact, a hard worker…harder on herself than we ever are, both academically and at the jobs she has had. Maybe we are just lucky, but we’ve never had to hit her over the head with any of this."</p>
<p>Great! You didn’t have to defend yourself. You asked the reason why some parents who have the money still insist that their kids pay for part of their college costs. I explained my reasons to you. </p>
<p>People have different ways of parenting. I’m happy with what I do, and it looks like you’re happy with what you do.</p>
<p>I think the differences here, as I said before, may stem from income levels. There has been no danger of “entitlement” for some people’s kids. </p>
<p>It can feel kind of contrived and artificial when parents have resources, but are trying to get their kids to feel responsible, financially and otherwise, for aspects of their education. A similar situation occurs in our town, when some of the most affluent parents “make” their kids work at Dunkin Donuts, to get a taste of the real world.</p>
<p>When parents do not have the resources, and the kids truly have no choice but to pay for things, then I think the parents wish they, the parents, could do MORE, not less. </p>
<p>I liked what someone said: it is good if parents and kids can be allies, not adversaries, and the point I was trying to make is that when that alliance exists, very often, independence follows naturally. </p>
<p>Perhaps if a teen never develops a sense of entitlement in the first place, payment for textbooks would not be such an issue.</p>
<p>“It can feel kind of contrived and artificial when parents have resources, but are trying to get their kids to feel responsible, financially and otherwise, for aspects of their education. A similar situation occurs in our town, when some of the most affluent parents “make” their kids work at Dunkin Donuts, to get a taste of the real world.”</p>
<p>I think that this is a great idea. It doesn’t seem contrived to me. I think it’s good for young people to see what kind of work they’d have to do without an education. Doing such things also helps them develop appreciation for the many people whose hard work they may have been taking for granted. In addition, it helps young people learn social and job skills that will serve them well whatever they end up doing in their lives.</p>
<p>You misunderstand, or I was not articulate. I am not criticizing the idea. It is a time-honored approach. I am just saying that the situation is somewhat contrived, because the kids know there is actually some money in the background. If anything, my comment was sympathetic. It is harder to enforce financial responsibility when it is not because of family need, but because of family philosophy. Parents who do not have financial resources can just say, “we don’t have the money” and the kids have no choice but to earn it. It is not a power struggle, then, and is a simpler, if harder, issue.</p>