<p>I go to school for academics. You live your life vicariously through kids your own age?thats pathetic.</p>
<p>Miriam Boo, I don't really care about how much research Emory puts out, overall I thinks I'll have a much much better undergraduate experience. Very few would say Emory was second rate or okay, that's issues and bias here wher # of top programs = best undergraduate experience, I guess LACs like Swarthmore are trash then.</p>
<p>Michigan is the 4th best school in the country, I respect it, it's mecca of global research and all should bow before it, are we happy now? </p>
<p>This thread has gone far from defining which school will give you best undergraduate experience. I stated my opinion and that's that, Ann Arbor is not for everyone, it's not for a lot of people. None of the past two pages of commentary have any significance to the OP in the first place, so lets just end it.</p>
<p>nyusternman, you needn't bother arguing any further. When you don't have an argument to start with, you shouldn't dare to try. Sorry, but high SAT scores don't automatically make NYU or any other school an academic powerhouse. That still doesn't tell me anything about the quality of the curriculum and departments at NYU. Michigan had an incoming class of over 6000 in '04 with an avg. SAT over 1300. NYU probably had an incoming class roughly half as large. I'll just assume that the avg. SAT for NYU freshmen was well over 1300 in '04. Now, if you compare the avg. SAT scores from this perspective, Michigan's incoming freshman class looks relatively impressive. Michigan does have an Honors Program for outstanding students with high SAT's in case you didn't know. </p>
<p>If you truly believe that you've presented a sound argument, then I feel sorry for you. All you've done is quote alleged avg. test scores. Yet you've failed to present evidence that backs your claim that NYU is a better school than Michigan. On the other hand, I've presented the results of the NRC Report, which is the most respected ranking in academia. I agreed with you that commercial polls like USN&WR have questionable validity. I didn't exactly flaunt the fact that Michigan's undergrad program is ranked 3rd in the nation by the Gourman Report either. The Gourman poll is every bit as biased & flawed as the USN&WR undergrad poll. </p>
<p>However, the NRC Report didn't rank the professional programs, so the only polls we can refer to for medicine, business, law, nursing, etc are the USN&WR & Gourman polls. If you make a claim like NYU is a better school than Michigan, you better be able to back it up. But I already had the info. from most of the polls and the NRC Report readily available, so I knew from the start that you didn't have a chance. Sorry, but Stern doesn't impress me. Why should it? We have Ross. Ross outranks Stern in both undergrad & grad business according to USN&WR. Ross is also tops in the nation according to the Wall Street Journal and the 6th best business school according to Business Week. </p>
<p>Michigan's avg. NRC score across 41 academic disciplines was the 3rd highest in the nation, while NYU's avg. score placed it in a tie for 41st. Michigan was ranked 10th in the nation for the greatest number of programs ranked in the NRC's top 10 and 9th for the greatest number of distinguished programs. Sorry, but NYU didn't fare very well according to the NRC Report. Perhaps NYU should list its NRC avg. score & rank next to its "high" avg. SAT scores in the NYU bulletin. I didn't realize that out of state tuition was the same at Michigan as it is for all students at NYU. Thank God I got my money's worth! You don't know me, so don't make any rude assumptions. My Michigan education was good enough to get me into a top 30 medical school. I'm a 3rd year resident on leave. What's your excuse for being on this board, Mr. Stern graduate?</p>
<p>Nyusternman, you missed the point. The mean SAT score of the top 10% of ALL Michigan students (not just Ross students) is 1480. Ross students are, on average, taken from the top 10% of Michigan's student body. In other words, the mean SAT score for Ross students is probably around 1480. The top 10% of Ross students are the top 1% of Michigan students. The mean SAT for Ross' top 10% is probably close to 1600. </p>
<p>But back to the point, the mean SAT score for Michigan students (not Ross, but all of Michigan) is 1330. NYU's mean SAT score is also 1330. I really do not see how NYU has a better student body than Michigan.</p>
<p>Cre8tive, Emory is a second rate research institution, but it is a first class university. I am sure you are going to really enjoy your 4 years there and get a first rate education. But I disagree with your comments and opinion of Michigan.</p>
<p>Devil May Cry, NYU Law is not greater than Michigan Law. Michigan is one of the top 6 or 7 Law schools in the US, so is NYU. In Law, they are about equal. You may prefer some aspects to NYU Law, in which case, I wish you the best of luck getting in, but I would not say that NYU law is greater than Michigan law.</p>
<p>Cre8tive1, actually I agree with you. Michigan definitely isn't for everyone. I never wrote that everyone should go to Michigan. Sponge Bob wanted more info. on Michigan, so I gave it to him. I don't even know how Emory slipped into the discussion. That poll lists the top research schools. I don't think the poll is saying that these are the top universities in the nation. Like I wrote, Emory is a good school. No doubt you'll receive a great education there. Best wishes to you.</p>
<p>Alexandre, thanks for the SAT info. I knew that the avg. SAT at Michigan was over 1300, but I didn't know the exact score. I listed the wrong score on another thread. So why is sternman bringing up avg. SAT scores? Let's see. Michigan has an avg. SAT of 1330 for over 6000 incoming undergrads, while NYU has an avg. SAT of 1330 for over 3000 undergrads. You could say that Michigan has twice the number of bright undergrads as NYU has. Go blue!! Beat Notre Dame!</p>
<p>Because Sternman doesn't know how to argue... he never took argumentation.</p>
<p>With his logic, I find it INCREDIBLY hard to believe he actually attends NYU. Look at his posts in this thread and find some sort of logic that isn't bickering.</p>
<p>And we will beat ND this year. They haven't come in here and beat us since 1993.</p>
<p>Miriam Boo, your NRC argument is ridiculous, that is only half the battle. It is irrelevant to undergrad education. The top LACs and places like Dartmouth, Duke, and Brown do among the best in terms of grad placement and job placement. I would say a majority of my Dartmouth friends pursuing medicine are at the top 25 med schools if they chose to go there over their in state programs. </p>
<p>NYU lacks because it isn't a top undergrad school, nor is it a top research school. Stern, however, is absolutely a top school in the same category as Ross.</p>
<p>I agree with Slipper (an historic occasion!). Stern is certainly on par with the likes of Ross, Haas, Fuqua, Darden, Columbia, Tuck etc... But Stern is very Finance oriented and as a university overall, NYU is not quite as complete as many of the schools mentioned above, including Michigan.</p>
<p>Alexandre, I would DARE say NYU Law is better than Umich law. It's almost as if you believe Umich is the greatest institution on the face of this earth and I'm a little tired of it. I'm sorry, but when you said Umich is equated to Columbia...I was floored. I am probably biased towards Duke, but I know my limits. I know Duke is no HYPMSC right now. I would say Columbia is currently better than Duke as well. I think Umich is awesome and I know a plethora of people going (all who were rejected by almost every school in the top 15). I do not dare assume my anecdote is indicative of the rest of the country, but I also wouldn't dare compare Mich students to Dartmouth students. I just wouldn't. Back to the law discussion...NYU has more cited professors. Umich is not far behind, but I think NYU Law is at the level of Columbia and maybe even Stanford. I would compare Umich to Cornell. I would also think Chicago, Yale, and Harvard are on a completely different plateau than any of them. UVA is better than Mich to me just in its superior elite firm hiring and the number of people they send to Cravath, etc. Now, you're probably going to respond in this 5 paragraph critique of what I just said. I advise you not to because it is not about convincing me of your point of view. Let us agree to disagree.</p>
<p>"I would compare Umich to Cornell"</p>
<p>I hope for law schools you were talking about. B/c for undergrad, Cornell is far superior to UMich. I know a bunch of dudes that got into mich out of state that would never dream of getting into cornell or any other top institution.</p>
<p>who cares about law school anyways: let's start talking about engineering and medical schools :))</p>
<p>I was talking about Law....don't worry. Umich might be slightly better than Duke and Cornell in law though. I agree with you 150%. Has classes started yet? You like it?</p>
<p>um....yeah classes have started, my only complaint is that there are way 2 many students here, more than I had wanted. The ppl are friendly, and a side note, only one day after classes, ppl were already in the libraries starting their work, which is a lil crazy. I can't imagine how filled those libraries will be once midterms start, WOW. The food is pretty good, but i don't eat much, b/c well, i don't like red meat, and therefore, my choices are limited. The frat scene is alrite, nothing special, far overrated in my opinion.</p>
<p>Devil May Cry, I equated Ross MBA program to Columbia MBA. I do not see how that is so flawed. USNWR ranks Columbia #9 and Michigan #10. BusinessWeek ranks Michigan #6 and Columbia #8. </p>
<p>As for Law Schools, you are actually wrong. Michigan is one of the top 6 or 7 Law schools, very much on the same level as Columbia and NYU. But like I said, you may have personal preferences and that's perfectly normal. NYU Law school may be a better fit for you than Michigan Law. Just look at the reputational scores, Bar passage rates, job placement, starting salaries etc... They are pretty even.</p>
<p>"Devil May Cry, NYU Law is not greater than Michigan Law. "</p>
<p>It's not even close. I'm using objective facts-the nyu 25th is greater than Michigan's 75th. That means a lot. It means better students are going to NYU, no matter how you spin itIuse every poll you want), but that means a lot. Reputational scores are based on judges/lawyers from generations ago who still view Michigan in the same regard as Yale, which is obviously more subjective.</p>
<p>Miriam Boo, again with the 'Top' this and that stuff, huh? Last time I checked, there's no difference between US medical schools (I would know, I'm in med school too). There's virtually no difference between Arizona medical school and UCSF medical school. But whatever. Everyone knows that going to easy state schools for ug is the best ticket to med school. But congrats on med school.</p>
<p>LOL Alexandre, who uses rankings in quantities of 7? But...to retort your statement, I can only reply that I believe Harvard, Yale, Uchic (most def.), Stanford, Columbia, NYU and UCB have better teachers. What I mean is...the teachers are more cited with scholarly impact than any other law school faculty.<br>
Oh! You were comparing business schools? Well, in that case, I agree with you. However, in terms of UG experience, I would just rather go to a Stanford/Columbia/Duke/Cornell/Penn/Uchic/JHU than a UCB or Umich. I just feel as if they are incubated by their behemeth grad schools. I really only knew about the politicized UCB and Umich UG that you speak of when I joined CC.</p>
<p>First of all Nyusternman, I am not sure where you got your facts. The mid 50% LSAT score at NYU Law is 167-172. At Michigan, it is 164-169. So yes, the mean LSAT score at NYU is higher, but not by the margin you claim. But I thought we were comparing LAw Schools, not students. Let us look at some key stats shall we?</p>
<p>Peer Assessment Score:
Michigan Law: 4.5/5.0
NYU Law: 4.5/5.0</p>
<p>Assessment Score by Lawyers and Judges:
Michigan Law: 4.6/5.0
NYU Law: 4.4/5.0</p>
<p>Employed at Graduation:
Michigan Law: 94%
NYU Law 98%</p>
<p>Employed 9 months after graduation:
Michigan Law: 99%
NYU Law 99%</p>
<p>School's Bar Passage Rates (both student bodies take the NY Bar):
Michigan Law: 95%
NYU Law: 96%</p>
<p>Starting Salaries:
Michigan Law: $120,000
NYU Law: $125,000</p>
<p>I'd say they are pretty even.</p>