University of Michigan EA Class of 2025

Yep some of my son’s friends got into pre engineering at UIUC (think first year they had it) but excepted into comparable engineering programs elsewhere. My son was a direct admit but seemed like too many hoops to go through with engineering compared to other schools. He was undecided since he was really undecided… And they only took like 100 of those that year.

As far as ranking the internet can be all over the place but for undergraduate CE both UIUC and Michigan at tied at 7.

Engineering overall. CMU, UIUC and Michigan are all ranked 6 in that order.

This is using USNWR…

Non of this really matters. For graduate school Michigan is ranked 5th.

It’s more fit and feel and affordability at this point and what type of culture you want to be in for 4 years. Every school has their weed out classes. It just seemed at the UIUC open house we went to 4 years ago they pointed that out and stressed it out more from the head of engineering. It’s real we know a family friend that dropped out after his first year. But it was on him not keeping up and procrastinating he admits.

You will get good jobs from either school.

Since I mentioned rankings… My son’s 2 minors are also ranked in the top think 6 with his engineering degree. That’s just kinda cool to me. 45 majors in the top 10 and many more in the top 15 and beyond. Few school can profess that. The one thing that sold Michigan besides the sport angle was that the entire student body was 3.9 unweighted with a 32 - 35 Act… Engineering was a bit higher. He really wanted to be pushed with his peers.

When I asked my son about honors before he applied he just laughed. He knew the rigor of engineering at Michigan. He doesn’t felt like he missed anything. He was very active on campus and that is a strong hint to do that. Guaranteed housing on central campus, special advisors. Think you do register earlier. Mostly for humanities smaller classes. Grading is curved so mostly A and B+. Special lounge and events. Can make just about any class honors by doing an extra essay, PowerPoint etc. Have to do a thesis so if going for a PhD that might be helpful. Many do it for the first 2 years then drop it. But for many its rewarding.

At honors convocation you have to get a 3.5 for 2 semesters or more during certain times to be mentioned at the honors convocation and your name is written in a booklet under your major. If you get 6-9 semesters of all As then they read your name out loud (probably have you come up to get diploma in non covid times).

Not saying it’s not worth it for those that want it but Michigan is hard enough without it.

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Are you still required to write a thesis/capstone Senior year as an Honors College students?

I think you do. LSA Honors Program | U-M LSA… Yes you do the requirements are there

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@srparent15 - Thanks for the detailed response! DS21 is targeting CS as well and will be looking to take credit for APCS, AP Calc BC and AP Physics C - E&M. Did not get a 5 on the Mech. so will have to do that course. Shaves off a semester overall but plans to use those credits to do a minor in a foreign language (starting afresh).

Biggest concern at this point (apart from cost) seems to be the challenge around signing up for upper level classes. See article in Michigan Daily dated Dec 9, 2019 (“academics/students-discuss-frustrations-long-waitlists-upper-level-computer-science-classes/”). This article talks about long waitlists, long lines for office hours, etc. Read other articles at the bottom of that page as well. Did you guys look into this and talk to upperclassmen before deciding on UM? We are trying to track down CS upperclassmen to understand this issue. Want to make sure DS can get to attend the classes he wants to without compromising on his objectives…

@knowstuff, @sushiritto - SInce your kids have been through this already, please add your thoughts as well. Were they unable to get a class they wanted and therefore had to compromise and settle for something that they didn’t really want to do?

We got Brooks coming back, who is the one I really wanted to come back!

Blockquote - Thanks for the detailed response! DS21 is targeting CS as well and will be looking to take credit for APCS, AP Calc BC and AP Physics C - E&M. Did not get a 5 on the Mech. so will have to do that course. Shaves off a semester overall but plans to use those credits to do a minor in a foreign language (starting afresh).

Hysterical about the Spanish minor. If there is one thing my son hates more than anything it is foreign language. I think that was one thing he was really dreading if he went to Purdue although you could take other Culture type of classes. I also think that’s why he refused to apply to LSA at Michigan and transfer to Engineering even though the CS requirements are essentially the same other than the freshman ENGR100/101 sequence. So UVA not having foreign language requirement probably made his life. He made it through Honors Spanish 4 and did well but somewhere along the way someone or something just turned him off, or else it was one class he had to work extra hard in and he did not enjoy.

I originally did not want him to take the APCS credit but after he spoke to someone that’s a freshman there now from our hs in CS, he told him to skip it. It’s the same as our high school course other than a little C++ and that he should just take a quick C++ refresher mini course. They also were in Data Structures together last year for Dual Credit and that’s a class he is intending to retake no matter what.

I’m hoping with the extra 3 weeks he has between Mechanics and E&M AP Exams he can hit that 5, especially since he now doesn’t need a 5 on AP Chem. To get those all 3 out of the way and knock off the 3 science classes just buys him a ton of time to take some classes for interest, fun, double major, or minor. Unfortunately, thanks to another poster, I can’t remember who, I realized if he does take the APCS and scores the required scores on his AP Exams, he can end up with 37 AP Credits. That means he has to take 16 or less I believe first semester or else second semester he will be junior standing and at the higher rate. I understand we will be at that number no matter what for “soph” year but I would like to keep my $2k or whatever it is a few months longer. Maybe the trigger is if he takes 17 semester hours first but that’s a non issue I realized because in that case he wouldn’t have the 37 hours since he would only get the 37 if he gets all the Science credits. I also can’t have him go to summer school at a CC and submit the transcript.

It’s not hard to find CS majors in upper level classes. If you want me to find one I can. My neighbor across the street is one and she’s graduating with a great job. While she is in LSA she’s still in CS. She was in LSA Honors but not sure she stayed in that track. She definitely did not have as many AP Credits as my son going in, but clearly it didn’t impact her graduating on time. Send me a pm if you want me to ask her anything specific. You make a good point and I haven’t yet reached out to her myself so I can do it all in one text. Even though she’s in LSA the CS requirements are identical.

Also, I am pretty sure that after first semester registration, you register based on the number of hours you have, other than kids that have honors, so if your kid has 40 hours, and another kid has 18 your son will have first dibs at those other courses. My daughter in CS at Cornell has had some problems with long waits for TA help. They get on the que, it can be 4 hours long and then they only get 15 mins and have to get back in the que. She got her ass saved this week when she wasn’t going to finish a project in time and thought it would be her first C (her own issue because I don’t care about grades) but it was a partner project and she also forgot to sign up by the deadline with her partner so they each were stuck doing it on her own. The que wasn’t going to be help because she couldn’t wait 4 hours until getting help, she sought the help of my older son who lucky for her at least calls her back even though he doesn’t return the calls of his parents (yep one of those) and literally as she was almost done and knew she would make the deadline to turn it in, the professor extended the project another 5 days. But my point after that blabbering is the TA lines are a problem. But that said, you want qualified TAs that know what they’re doing and they will for sure at UM. Not sure about uvA. One thing I forgot to mention before about another reason he chose UM over UVA is he is interested in Machine Learning and UVA didn’t really have much along that track. So your son should also look at where his interests lie.

But again back to older CS grads PM me specific questions and I’m happy to send to her. I wouldn’t mind hearing the answers too.

Not sure Brooks will be relevant next year. I’ve watched quite a few of their AAU and HS games on TV and spoken to someone plugged into the AAU circuit. And Michigan has some “real deal” recruits coming in the Fall.

@QQsubs Freshman year D18 had to take a popular class “out of sequence” (numerically, but order didn’t matter) in the Fall and then go back and take the “other” class in the Winter. She had a very late orientation/registration date, so that was the reason for the “switch.” No harm, no foul.

For last Fall (2020, junior year), she had to waitlist another popular class, which she eventually got into, but that was because she had registered to take that class last summer at UCLA, cheaper, same class, units would transfer, etc. UCLA went remote due to Covid and she/we cancelled it, then we had to get on the waitlist at Michigan for this past Fall. If that makes any sense. Otherwise, smooth sailing for class registration, including this Fall’s class schedule. And she’s in a high demand LSA major and minor.

And she’s avoided any 8:00 AM and 9:00 AM classes. If you’re open to those class times, then the lack of that time constraint will make registration even that much easier.

@srparent15 - Thanks for the offer to connect with a UM senior! I’ll talk to my son and IM you.

It appears UM has 10 levels of registration priority based on “standing”, which is determined by credits earned either at UM or through dual-enrollment, CC, etc. They used to count AP credit for this but changed that policy for the next year. However AP credit counts for “upper level” standing which determines your fees! Go figure. DS will therefore only be claiming credits for classes that allow him to fulfill a pre-req. or program requirement. He will not be claiming credits that he won’t use (Econ, English, etc.). Why pay more fees sooner?

@sushiritto - Thanks for that input and registration tips. I suspect a lot of kids will be avoiding the 8/9 AM classes to sleep in! :slight_smile:

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In some instances, though, the best professor teaches that 8:00 AM class, like a 8:00 AM Chem class, my D didn’t take from that favored professor. That 8:00 AM chem class was SRO (standing room only). For my D, Class time > Best professor.

My son was waitlisted as a freshman for 2 classes mans first on the waitlist and able to get his class’s. Also he took 1 out of order due to his schedule. His CS friends really never had issues. The article is 2 years old and they did make some changes. Every school got hit with influx of CS students and had to adjust. Call or email the CS department and or talk to Someone from one of the CS student orgs and ask. Don’t rely on Reddit since most just complain there but… Sometimes you can get useful information.

BTW - my son is industrial engineering with 2 minors. Lots of classes to get and just never had an issue but that means also 3 advisors…

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It’s funny except for like first semester freshman year my son’s class schedule has been pretty great with later classes etc. But those 8:00pm tests can be killer also after a long day…

BTW - get ready for papers etc due at Midnight… I used to ask why he didn’t have them done before and he just laughed :rofl:

BTW, for those incoming freshman parents, watch out for evening classes, because those morning and afternoon classes have evening exams. Those morning and afternoon classes call out those evening exams in the description and often conflict with evening classes.

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I have friends who’s kids are early birds and prefer those classes so there are plenty of kids like that. There are also sometimes some professors that only teach that time and kids have to suck it up. I have one right now dealing with that. Lucky for her it’s on zoom and I’m guessing she doesn’t move out of bed.

I just looked up the article about them changing the priority registration and that’s a bummer but I get it. That’s how Cornell does it. You register with the class you began with. Unfortunately there however, it’s a free for all and a terrible system because everyone registers at the exact same time and many systems go down, so at least UM breaks it out. It looks like they actually have 27 different registration blocks, so the key if no dual credit, is to make sure first semester you take at least 16 hours hours to be in Block 24, otherwise you are stuck in Block 25. It doesn’t mention anything about Honors students or students with accommodations registering earlier either which would surprise me. But again, Cornell doesn’t do that either, my other kid, is always the first in her group and almost always gets the classes she wants except sometimes there are some that are open to all as first come first serve which happened this semester with one and she was lucky and got in it and is happy to kiss that class goodbye after May.

Here is the block list https://umich-regoff.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/1286/~/how-registration-appointments-are-assigned

Since you can’t tell College Board which AP credits to send, does Michigan operate where you just click which AP courses you want to claim? So for instance, since AP Econ just gives you 4 (2 each) general Econ credits, I assume you just wait to claim those until later? Same with something like APUSH which counts for the General Electives, but I’m with @QQsubs why take them at this point if you don’t have to? However, if you can’t control when you claim them, then we have to take all of them since you can’t control what college board sends other than just not sending senior year scores.

Agree often also @sushiritto sometimes the best ones teach earliest. Sometimes it’s because they have other jobs, or for whatever reason. I think @Knowsstuff is right that it always works out in the end. Get electives out of the way if and I assume they have the swap thing with waitlist so that it just automatically swaps you out of one class into the other if you get in off the waitlist.

I never thought I would say this next, but I can’t wait to do the shopping for this kid for his dorm and know it will be as stress free as it gets! No idea if @sushiritto daughters are like mine, but the amount of crap that girls take and how perfect their comforter and linens and wall decor have to be, yada yada, omg crazy. Not to mention, now they will both have double beds so it’s coming home to go in the closet and I have to rebuy for them. I am seriously hoping my son wants grey as one of his colors though because the girls had pink and grey sheets so he can at least take their sheets!! Knowing I don’t have to spend $1,000 at Dormify for him, hallelujah.

A michigan flag is probably all we need on his wall, if there’s even room for that. No worrying about matching comforters and color coordinating with the roommate either!!

@srparent15
“Since you can’t tell College Board which AP credits to send, does Michigan operate where you just click which AP courses you want to claim? So for instance, since AP Econ just gives you 4 (2 each) general Econ credits, I assume you just wait to claim those until later? Same with something like APUSH which counts for the General Electives, but I’m with @QQsubs why take them at this point if you don’t have to? However, if you can’t control when you claim them, then we have to take all of them since you can’t control what college board sends other than just not sending senior year scores.”

Looks like you can ask to request for credits to be removed before you hit 55 hours. From their “Transfer credit guidelines” page - academics/undergraduate-degrees/transfer-credit/guidelines/

Removing credits: Students should be aware that receiving transfer, test and/or course credit can have an impact on tuition fees as tuition increases once a student reaches Upper Class Standing (55 credit hours or more.) Students are responsible for reviewing their transcript when credits are posted. Credits can be removed no later than the end of the semester in which the student reaches Upper Level tuition.

Ridiculous really. I will be paying tuition at 2 other schools and have never seen such a thing. Just average out the cost of the tuition so everyone pays the same and it saves a huge headache. Also for accounting purposes they would probably save money in the long run anyway.

If someone removes credit though, does that mean they can’t take them. It’s actually perhaps more tempting afterall then to just send the AP credit now. Then not send the the 4 AP Exam results until after the kid is at the 54. Less headache. It’s potentially 19 hours. Our kids most likely won’t know their scores anyway before they register so maybe they can skirt those classes that way without them being on the “transcript as AP classes” and the only real issue is if they’re pre-reqs for anything later and I’m not really sure they are.

Something else I came across and maybe @QQsubs you have found the updated version is that the CS requirements pdf only goes through Summer of 2021. It’s about 10 years old. I haven’t found a Fall 2021 version so I wonder what small (if any) requirements there will be and how it affects the requirements of entering kids. I guess I can have my son email them.

This is what I’m talking about https://cse.engin.umich.edu/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2020/10/cse_guide.pdf

The target and BBB have lots of things to buy locally. We got a futon from Target. Should have one good wall to put stuff on and the local Kohl’s usually has different Michigan stuff to get.

Fantastic! What about microfridge. Do they have the rent a deal thing for those?

Yes.

Michigan has a rental plan on housing.For my daughter we grabbed one from a friend whose kid graduated. Just saying but Target had them also if you want to buy shelp around. .