<p>Candylady
So glad you called! A perfect example of why it is CRITICAL to call as information/requirements can change from year to year. 2 weeks ahead two years ago - 4 weeks ahead now!</p>
<p>Good job!</p>
<p>Theatermom, you are SO right to point this out. This forum is GREAT but for this sort of information about a school or an audition, which can change from year to year, you really must ask the school directly. This is super example because even just LAST year for UMich, you only had to submit your audition selections two weeks prior to your audition. Apparently it changed. If someone just went by what others say from prior years, it would not be accurate. Another example is if someone asked me if BOCO has a dance audition, I'd normally say NO, because last year they did not but apparently this year they do! </p>
<p>This board is great for lotsa things but for that important type of information, one must go to the source. Too much is riding on the line not to do so. </p>
<p>Susan</p>
<p>Two questions: (1) Anyone have a January 20th audition date? (son does) (2) I'd be interested to here whether there are favorite hotels among the MT families. When we visited in September, we stayed on campus at the Michigan League. It was great location-wise, but older and a little too library-ish for our tastes. Can anyone tell me about Bell Tower? Has anyone stayed near north campus?</p>
<p>The Bell Tower is equally well placed for auditions. It is more expensive than the League and while it is more upscale than the League, it is very traditional as well. The only other hotel that might qualify as upscale is the Campus Inn, only a few blocks farther than the Bell Tower but still in easy walking distance of the Mendelssohn Theater, where your audition day will begin. I've not stayed at the Campus Inn yet (have stayed at the Bell Tower several times because it is sooo convenient and has valet parking included which is a real boon when you are on campus) but we do have reservations there in April when we'll be there to see Suessical and celebrate my birthday! (The Bell Tower was full.)</p>
<p>The remainder of the hotels in the vicinity are standard chain fare but most are fine (avoid Studio Plus and the one that used to be the Red Roof Inn - Yuck!) - the hotels near North Campus are fine but not comfortable walking distance from where you will need to be on North Campus (the Music School) for the afternoon portion of auditions. </p>
<p>Feel free to email me if I can help with anything else regrading auditions. Hope the weather cooperates! There has already been snow a few times in Ann Arbor. We auditioned the same weekend 2 years ago and it was VERY cold!! Bring your long johns!!</p>
<p>Theatermom is definitely the expert on UMich here, though a couple others here have kids going too. </p>
<p>I've gone with my D twice to UMich, once for a two night visit and once for the Jan. audition (also two nights). The audition trips add up in terms of money real quick....flights, rental cars, hotels, meals, gas. So, everyone is different but for me, I was trying to stay as cheaply as I could mixed with convenience as the other factor. So, both times we stayed near North Campus which is where the bulk of the auditions are, as well as the Music School). We had a rental car. We stayed at the Holiday Inn (which was VERY close to that campus and really only maybe two miles from the main campus as well. Very easy. Best of luck!
Susan</p>
<p>Thanks, both of you. I think we'll try Bell Tower this time, if they have availability. Theatermom, we live in the Chicago area, so I should be used to the cold, but having grown up in the south (New Orleans), I don't think I'll ever be able to say that! I'll definitely take my long johns to Ann Arbor.</p>
<p>I've been reading the cc forums for a long time (silently), so I don't have any specific audition questions at the moment, but you'll probably see me begging for info as the date gets closer.</p>
<p>My only concern is that my son is way too confident for his own good about his odds for getting into MT at U mich (other choices are Northwestern, where he spent last summer in the cherubs program, and Illinois Wesleyan, which is also close to home). Because of his consistent successes in high school and the Northwestern program, and his vocal awards at a state level, I can't seem to get through to him how tough his odds are for the top MT schools. I hate to see him give up his dream if he doesn't happen to be admitted to one of these three programs, but he doesn't want a conservatory, and doesn't seem interested in looking at schools more than 4-5 hours away. I think I'm going to have to have a heart-to-heart with him soon, because I honestly can't see him being happy doing anything else, at least at this point.</p>
<p>He had his first disappointment this week with the NFAA ARTS Awards -- we were all a little surprised that his score fell just short of an award. Maybe it'll encourage him to think carefully about only applying to three schools. Thanks for all the invaluable advice you both take the time to provide here.</p>
<p>Ok, guess I have to go to plan B. Bell Tower is booked for 1/19, I'd rather not pay for Campus Inn since we won't be in the room more than a couple of hours, and Hawthorn Suites is full. Susan, was the Holiday Inn ok? Any other suggestions? I have the lists.</p>
<p>If I may give my perspective on what you wrote above....</p>
<p>The good news is that your son is confident about his abilities. Confidence goes a long way in auditioning. The fact that he can self assess is good too. Second piece of good news...he has some "benchmarks" that give him some inkling that he is "competitive" in this field amongst his age group. You mention state awards in voice, achievements in his summer theater program and at his school. These are great. These help him to see how he does among other select groups of kids. </p>
<p>The not so good news....while it is good to know if you are an appropriate and competitive candidate for BFA admissions, NOBODY, no matter how talented, should realistically count on getting into a PARTICULAR top MT program. What he can realistically say is that he has a decent chance at getting in BFA programs (due to other benchmarks), but he cannot safely say that about a singular elite BFA program. Even the most talented kids can be turned away from a particular BFA program because there are just ten slots for boys (or girls) and there are more than 10 kids talented enough or qualified enough to get in. So even if he passes "muster" to be good enough to get into UMich, there is an element of some luck as to whether they feel he fits a slot in that particular freshman class. They can't take every kid who is "good enough". There are kids who did not get into UMich but who are attending CMU or CCM or NYU as examples. I know ones at UMich (inc. an NFAA award recipient) who are obviously very talented or they wouldn't be in at UMich but they did not get into Emerson, CAP21, Penn State or CMU, or Syracuse for example. This is the nature of "elite" college admissions whether you are talking top BFA programs or for regular applicants, schools like the Ivy League. You may have what it takes to get to the gate but it may not mean you get IN the gate. </p>
<p>Just because you gave certain examples in your post, let me relate personally. My D ALSO won the state scholarship award for classical voice and also for jazz (only vocalist), achieved in a summer program (leads, select MT troupe, highest level classes, etc) and her high school (leads in HS shows since middle school), and won an NFAA award. I'm not listing all her "achievements" but ONLY the ones YOU mentioned about your son as she had them too. She did not get into UMich. </p>
<p>Here is how we approached this similar situation. I can say the same of my other D who was not a MT applicant but applied to highly selective colleges (is now at Brown). They confidently knew that they were "qualified" or had what it took to be considered at the selective schools on their list. They knew they were competitive to be considered. BUT, they were REALISTIC and NEVER counted on getting into any one particular highly selective school. They did not get upset if one particular one did not come through. Rather, they felt (as did we as parents) that realistically, they likely would get into some. They knew the LONG SHOT odds so NEVER EXPECTED to get in and didn't get bent out of shape if they didn't, as they knew the odds. They knew what this involved. They knew candidates that were qualified still can be turned away. But they also knew confidently that they were likely to get in somewhere if they had a balanced list and enough options on the list. For my BFA kid, since all the schools are unpredictable given the odds, she had EIGHT BFA programs on her list. I would be very worried if she had only had 3, despite her being a reasonable and realistic candidate. No singular school could be counted on. There was more than one school where she could be happy and thrive. </p>
<p>My MT kid got accepted to five, waitlisted at one, accepted to the college but denied for the BFA at one, and denied at one. So, the predictions of getting into at least one, and hopefully some, came true. She was a realistic candidate. BUT let's say for the sake of the discussion, that she had only applied to three and to make a point, I'll pick the very first three she auditioned at. </p>
<p>Here would have been her results:
Emerson, accepted EA to the college, deferred to RD for BFA, denied for BFA.
UMich...denied.
Ithaca....accepted (great school but her last choice in her list of faves)</p>
<p>If that was all she'd have applied to, yes, she'd have had one great BFA to go to, but no choice AND it was her least favorite as it met less criteria of hers in a program. </p>
<p>Instead, with 8, she had five great acceptances to pick from and even the waitlist (not counting the college she got into without the BFA part even if it is a very good school, she had no interest without the BFA program). </p>
<p>Other D, same sort of thing. Eight selective schools. Actually she had a full ride at our state U so that's a ninth but was not truly on her list before the offer. But of the 8, admitted to six, waitlisted at one, deferred EA to one where eventually denied. She had great choices. She did not count on or pine away for one particular school as she knew the odds were insanely tough at several schools (Ivies) on her list. </p>
<p>Your son sounds very talented and likely in the running at a place like UMich but even so, realistically he can't count on it. If he is considering UMich and Northwestern, will he be happy to attend Illinois Wesleyan if that is his only choice? Academically it is not like the other two. If he loves that school, that is all that matters but if he sees it merely as a fallback, it seems to me that there are choices in "between" UMich/Northwestern and Illinois Wesleyan. I understand the 4-5 hours criteria but with MT, there are not THAT many programs. There may be some that are just a 90 min. plane ride? I'm not sure but CMU, Otterbein, Baldwin Wallace, Webster, or even the East Coast ones in major airports (Boston, NYC) could be a two hour flight. </p>
<p>Again, he sounds like a viable candidate, talented and understandably confident of that talent. Being realistic in terms of the odds of elite college admissions or highly selective BFA programs is important as well. I'm not saying this about HIM but about ANY kid, no matter how talented. Also, a kid is not as devastated when they don't get into a very selective program because they are realistic going into the process and don't come to expect it and in fact, my kids never cried when one of their faves turned each of them down and in the end, both had many wonderful choices, made sure they really liked the schools on their list, not just one or two, and right now, both couldn't be happier with where they ended up. Your son sounds so talented that it would be a shame to only have three schools and be shut out, or to end up at a fallback that he may not be keen about. Can you do Chicago Unifieds just in case? That way options are there "just in case" because you said you can't picture him doing anything else (lots of us know just what you mean!!). Something to think about. Not because he is not talented enough but because he is not realistic about these odds. </p>
<p>Susan</p>
<p>Yes, the Holiday was more than OK....spent no time there, was convenient, was not overly priced, free parking. Stayed there twice so obviously we were pleased. Lots of alum were there one of the times for a big football game. I can't speak for anyone else but I wasn't looking for a NICE hotel. I was looking for a decent place, not expensive as close to the school as I could get. The two trips to UMich alone were very costly for me even so. This is an expensive proposition. You only have three schools and one is near where you live and is not overnight. We had 8 schools, so keep that in mind. Several involved flights. I live in Vermont.</p>
<p>Best of luck to your talented boy. Keep us posted.
Susan</p>
<p>Thanks, Susan -- your points are well taken and now I just have to convey them to my son. I think he'll agree that it's a good idea to do unifieds, but it won't be as exciting to get an acceptance from one of those if he hasn't visited the school and developed some warm fuzzies. At least he'll have some options, though. Thanks again.</p>
<p>Edmondsg, You are welcome. I realize you will not have visited but look at the bigger picture at this point....you want him to not be closed out of a MT school, AND ideally you'd like him to have options if his two faves do not come through. Many of these BFA programs are LONG shot deals.</p>
<p>You can convey that you totally believe in his talent and that he is a strong candidate. He may NOT be aware of the competition. If you can give him some of the examples I quoted, that may give him a clue. Perhaps in his own world locally or regionally, those are the only kids he sees. However, since he went to Cherubs, he likely saw some top talent from all over. One way to put it is to say....see how many mucho talented kids there were at Cherubs? Well, let's add in that there are SEVERAL summer theater programs that have similar pools of talent (off the bat, I can tell you my D's summer program surely did and many of the top kids are now in all these BFA programs being talked about here). Then say, you won the state award for voice. There are fifty states, there were state winners in all those places and some may be auditioning for BFA programs (not all of course). See the NFAA list of awards for MT? Many of those same kids are auditioning at these same BFA programs. Think of the MANY kids (like HIM!) who are also very talented who did not win one of those, who either came close (like HIM and some others I know who now are at top MT BFA programs but did not win an ARTS Award) OR the many top kids who never even entered (where I live, nobody has heard of this and my kid only entered because I read about it on CC and she was the only winner in any category from our state last year and there are no winners in any category from our state this year....BUT she has several friends from our region who now are in BFA programs). So, all these kids are going to be in the applicant pool. </p>
<p>Had my D walked away after not getting into the BFA at Emerson or UMich thinking she was not talented enough for a BFA program, it would have been a mistake....but if that was all she had applied to, that might have been that but instead she had five really good BFA acceptances and a BFA waitlilst. You can't just go by the results of two auditions/applications when the admit rates are so low. Last year, there were two "families" on this forum whose daughters who seem quite talented and experienced, ONLY applied to ONE BFA program (I realize your son is trying for three) and while they got into the BA program at those schools in theater, they did not get into the BFA program and were disappointed. But you cannot say they were not good enough because they only had ONE try. Had they had six other BFA's on the list, MAYBE they may have gotten into one. </p>
<p>I'd share all that with your son. Has he talked to kids from Cherubs (from outside his local circle) who are applying for BFA programs and is he aware of THEIR lists? I don't know if he has any friends looking into this or not or if you are entering this process in a bit of a vacuum locally.....he may want to read a bit of this forum....last year's results, anything. Find out from peers from Cherubs what their plans are. Just an idea. </p>
<p>Your son sounds too talented to end up being closed out or at his safety. Options even from Unifieds makes it so he has nothing to lose but all to gain.</p>
<p>Tell him to believe in himself (he has THAT going for him!), but be aware of the selective BFA situation. </p>
<p>all the best....glad you found this forum....</p>
<p>One more thing I didn't think of.....you don't audition to get INTO Northwestern, right? So, you audition after the first year or second year to get into the MT program. So, if your son can get in academically there, he may be all set but on the other hand, there is no guarantee that he'll get into the program later on after already being enrolled. Apparently it is quite selective and not all who try get in at that juncture. That may be fine with your son, but is a different situation from the BFA programs which I have been discussing where you audition now to be admitted. Also they are BFA programs, not quite the same as Northwestern.</p>
<p>Susan - Yes, Northwestern has no audition until end of freshman year, which is why I think in the back of his mind, that's his "safety" -- and in some ways even his first choice, since he spent the summer there. He would probably get in academically, although as we all know, nothing's a sure shot.</p>
<p>And yes, the BA that Northwestern offers isn't as desirable as a BFA, but from a concerned parent's standpoint, I don't mind that, if he doesn't, because his "backup" plan, although he really isn't mentally prepared for ANY backup, is med school. If that had to happen at some point, the BA (with a biology minor) would put him in better shape to take the MCATS than the BFA. So from that perspective, Northwestern is a good choice, although in many ways I feel that to give MT a real shot, he has to do everything 100% all the way, including a BFA. On the other hand, Northwestern has a great presence in theater, a good showcase, and plenty of ties to Chicago and NY. So... I guess this is why I haven't pushed him before now to audition for more schools.</p>
<p>Hmmm... I feel like I'm talking in circles. This is kind of where my head's been for the past six months. It took me until then to totally accept that we needed to allow him to take the risky but passionate MT path. Now I just want him to succeed at whatever will make him happy, which is this.</p>
<p>You asked if he has friends pursuing MT. One or two of his school friends are, and a few close cherubs. His new girlfriend (met her at cherubs) is going into theater, but from a writing perspective, not performance. He's very aware of the competition and what the top BFA schools are, I just don't think he's completely accepted the fact that there's a good chance he won't get into one of his top three. As bad as it sounds, he doesn't have a lot of experience handling rejection, and I'd hate for this to be the way he learns.</p>
<p>You asked if he would be happy at Wesleyan. Although I think he'd be a little disappointed at first, he has several friends there, the MT director has very good theatre contacts, and he LOVED his "meet the students" lunch and the meeting with the program director. Wesleyan has been cited as one of the most underrated MT programs, and from what I saw, I can see why. It certainly doesn't have the presence of the true "MT Ivy's", but it has more to offer than most people realize.</p>
<p>My concern, of course, is that once they graduate, the name recognition of the big MT schools give you that little edge in an already competitive industry, and IWU just isn't there yet.</p>
<p>Because of the options Northwestern offers, I guess I, too, look at that as a safety, in a way. Unfortunately, it's not, because there's still the possibility he wouldn't get in academically. Oh brother. I will be glad when this is all over!</p>
<p>gail</p>
<p>Gail, Northwestern is a fantastic school. Now what you describe about a "fallback" option and maybe med school etc. is a different story. The decision to go with a BFA or a BA degree is a big one. I know a couple very talented boys (who are prime candidates for good BFA programs) who are thinking strongly of the BA route at academically challenging colleges like Brown, Yale and Northwestern. This option fits what many kids want. It may be the best fit for what YOUR son wants. You are right that a BFA is the route if you are throwing everything into MT for now. It still is a college degree of course, that can lead to other jobs, not just on stage. If your son were to go to Tisch, he could do pre med courses most likely with the BFA. Kids do have minors, some have double majors (that one is hard). I know someone who was in CAP21 but also majored in chemistry. The boy I know who is very interested in Northwestern and other schools of a BA nature that are very selective, has kept Tisch on his list, one of his few BFAs. By the way, this boy just won an NFAA award.</p>
<p>I don't know your son's academic qualifications and obviously he must be in the ballpark if he is an applicant to Northwestern. However, academically speaking, Northwestern is not a safety school for anyone, in my opinion. Their admit rate to the university this past year was 29.9%. I have a child who had top academic "stats" which I won't run through as I don't post my kids' stats. I'll give just ONE...valedictorian. Even for a student like her, I would have called Northwestern a MATCH school, never a safety. Only HALF of the vals who applied were admitted. Even less than half who have an SAT in math between 750 and 800 are admitted. As you can see from those two measures alone that she fit in, her chances were still less than 50%. Kids like her were turned away in droves. </p>
<p>That is why I mention the concept of being "realistic". Know the odds. Have a balance of schools on your list with various chances of admission. If going for a BFA, you need a number of schools to up the chances, too. </p>
<p>I don't know Illinois Wesleyan at all and I am sure it is a very fine program. If your son feels he would be happy going, then you may be all set. I don't know how tough it is to get into their BFA program but I doubt even that is a sure thing if it is by audition. As a less well known BFA, the odds are likely better than at UM as the appicant pool may not be as strong so it is a wise choice to have on his list. It doesn't sound like he is dying to go there and that's why I'd want more options on the list because one of his schools is not a BFA and has tough academic odds even for excellent students, one is a top MT BFA program with real tough odds, and one is his safety. There are lots in between, plus by adding more schools, more chances are possible and more options are possible in spring. I also am wondering, since I gather he must be a very good student if he is applying to Northwestern, though I don't know him at all, if he will be happy with the level of "challenge" in the academic courses at Illinois Wesleyan. Having two kids in my family who are very good students, I know they cared a lot about the level of academic challenge in their colleges and the level of the student body in terms of a learning environment and motivation and all and IF your son does as well, then he may want options other than his safety. Northwestern is NOT a safety. It simply is not an audition based BFA so doesn't have that element in the admissions decision though again, is an option that has no guarantees he can get accepted into the MT program after freshman or soph year but he may be fine with that IF he is also contemplating other studies like pre med. This is SUCH an individual decision based on what the child wants to do. There is NO right way. If the idea of fallback or other academic paths are important, than Northwestern or schools like Vassar would be great options. If he wants to put his all into MT training and he obviously is into applying to UMich or Illinois Wes which ARE that kind of degree, then he may want to up the odds that he will have a BFA to go to next year. </p>
<p>It is all overwhelming to be sure, but these are the kinds of discussions that may be needed.
Susan</p>
<p>PS...
Your son may want to take a look at Indiana University.</p>
<p>Just wanted to send out a special "Break a Leg" to all who are headed to Ann Arbor this week (and the weeks to come) for auditions. Relax, have a great audition and just show them who YOU are!! Trust me - the real YOU is who they really want to get to know. Stop worrying about whether or not you've chosen the "right" song or the "perfect" monologue. Just let your own light shine for them to see. When you have a chance to talk to the auditors, share your passion, your hopes and what it is that you bring to the table that makes you unique, even if it has nothing to do with MT or performing. UM is quite comfortable with a class of unique individuals - no cookie cutter expectations or uniform plans for your future. They will nurture you and work with you to help you become the strongest, most creative performer and person you can imagine. Your dreams can be realized there. I am so hoping to hear good news in the months ahead and to see you in Ann Arbor in the years to come. Knock 'em dead!!</p>
<p>EEK! My Michigan audition is just two weeks from this Friday! I'm starting to get excited - I just hope my poor little voice (and sanity) can survive the multi-city journey there (Seoul-Tokyo-Chicago-Detroit --- I hate United)!!! Eeeeeeeeeeeek!</p>
<p>does anyone here have the march 10 date at UM?
break a leg samia!</p>
<p>No, but my s has this Friday - Jan. 20th!</p>
<p>eeek! my syracuse audition is the 21st...I can't believe it's all starting!</p>
<p>For anyone who is interested, as part of the Kennedy Center's Conservatory Project, several UM School of Music students will be performing tonight (Wednesday, 2/15) at the Terrace Theater at the Kennedy Center in Washington, DC. Schools participate by invitation only. UM participated last year as well. The performance will be broadcast live tonight at 6pm on a webcast available to the public from the following web address:</p>
<p>At the top of this web page, tonight's concert is the first event listed and there is a link to click at 6pm to view the performance live in streaming audio/video. It will include a variety of School of Music students including several MT's. If you cannot view it live, it will also be available (starting tomorrow, 2/16, I believe) as all of these performances are archived. It should be available from the same page as above. If you are interested in last year's UM concert, use the Search function and choose the event by date box for February 2005. The MT's closed last year's concert with a few excerpts from last year's Spring MT Dept production of City of Angels. I don't know for sure what they will be performing this year. I believe that there will be at least four senior MT's singing. One junior MT is participating but I believe he is playing percussion. </p>
<p>Enjoy!!</p>
<p>Thanks, theatermom. I'll be watching.</p>