unmotivated student, controlling mom

<p>National Learning Commons
<a href="http://www.evergreen.edu/washcenter/project.asp?pid=73%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.evergreen.edu/washcenter/project.asp?pid=73&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Thanks emeraldkity- I was just going to post it. There are over 200 U's that have learning centers including Duke (FOCUS Program), U of Florida and many others.</p>

<p>chammom,</p>

<p>I had to jump in again re ADD. ADD behaviors can comingle with immaturity/lack of motivation, and can reinforce each other. Yes, some ADD tendencies get better with age & experience & training; some are outgrown-- but some are not. </p>

<p>Here is what I found. First-- let me emphasize that THERE IS NO ONE SIZE FITS ALL to ADD and to handling ADD. I have been struggling with what to do re my son's ADD for a few years now. (Really, for his whole academic life-- though we never knew it was ADD till middle school.) We have always known he was an "absentminded professor" but through 6th grade his innate intelligence and having only one teacher saw him through at the A-/B+ level.</p>

<p>In 7th grade with 7-8 teachers/classes, he fell apart. Began "hating" school. Also, like your S, he complained bitterly of boredom. Got some A's and some D's. Advisor thought he did not like math/science as the humanities classes were A's and the math/science C's. The following year, the grades switched and his humanities tanked while math & science soared. KEY INGREDIENT: the Teacher. My son loved the "exciting" teachers where, as he put it, "you never know what is going to happen." Hated the routine-oriented teachers who have the same pattern to each & every week. Adrenaline functions as a stimulant so adrenaline rushes do mitigate ADD problems. Thus exciting teachers = A's.</p>

<p>We had him tested and he was both gifted and ADD. We were very anti-medication. </p>

<p>Step One: We provided intense academic support. The academic services specialist at my son's school met with him each day during his study hall to help him get organized and I did that at home. Lots of emails between home, teachers, & support person, and constant following up. Result: minor (B-) improvement in grades that immediately went away when withdrawn. Major major time intensive effort thet did not provide much objective result.</p>

<p>Step Two: Major nutritional support/focus. Fish oils, zinc, etc-- really paid attention to his diet. No discernable effect, other than proabbly better overall health. We will continue this and avoid anti nutrients as well.</p>

<p>Step Three: Tutoring in specific study skills. Result: learned some coping strategies to break down assignments such as "Read Chapter Two" into specific steps-- "skim, then read, then re-read & make outline/flashcards."</p>

<p>All of the above were useful and helpful in small ways. I wanted to exhaust every option prior to medication. (I am the kind of person who had natural birth and don't take Tylenol, so meds really bothered me.) OTOH I could see how dramatically he was tuning out to school, and how much below his intellect he was performing.</p>

<p>I consulted with homeschooling people, ADD tutors, psychologists, other parents, & CC. Some people were anti meds and suggested home schooling. Others told me to consider Ritalin, that for certain kids they'd have dramatic improvement with no ill effects. (The psychologist told me this, but also that he'd NEVER advise to medicate a kid who did not want it.)</p>

<p>So we tried Step Four: Ritalin. It has been very helpful for my family. My son feels no effect (i.e. no sleeplessness, appetite suppression, agitation, whatever.) He feels no different. I see a HUGE effect: He is organized and enjoying school, getting A's, with very little external support. He is even coping with the "boring" teachers quite well. I am still "checking" but I am not <em>finding</em> any disasters like I used to. His work is organized, he is planning, assignments are in on time, tests are known about, etc. </p>

<p>Our plan is to let him get a semester or two under his belt to solidify all the other steps (study skills, notetaking, organization) and really make these skills into habits. Then we will try it without Ritalin, and see where he is.</p>

<p>I would not pursue this course of action if my son was experiencing any negative effects, nor if the improvement had only been minor. But in my experience it was a very good choice for us.</p>

<p>Mostly I am writing because I have been right there in the trenches-- shoving the boulder up hill; when you let up it rolls back-- and it is a miserable thing to have to do. This year I am calmer, my son is happy, and our time together is not school-oriented (!). I remember all the time I apent trying to teach this kid something that he was not capable of acquiring, and the frustrations both of us felt. I guess I would not have done it differently because I am still the sort of person who'd do meds last.</p>

<p>Again, this is a very individual decision; every family will choose a different path. But in case maturity does not take care of things, it may be that medication would help.</p>

<p>


Yes, technically.... but in practical terms, asking for accommodations for ADD is not a great career move. Sometimes it can't be helped -- but a lot of the detail work that is the bane of existence to ADD'ers is also the sort of work that management passes off to subordinates, so rather than being a subordinate with accommodations, its nice to be a step up the ladder. Multi-tasking and creative thinking - ADD strengths -- are assets at the management level -- so the road to success may really be to fashion one's own solutions rather than asking others for accommodations. </p>

<p>I'd also point out that while the law requires employers to give accommodations to existing employees with recognized disabilities who are otherwise qualified to do their job, it doesn't require the employers to hire them in the first place, or to promote them. Nor does it insulate the employee when the disability stands in the way of doing the job -- extended time to do tasks or flexibility in scheduling don't always fit the work environment.</p>

<p>SBMom, I know this was a really agonizing decision for you and I am really glad the outcome has been so good. It's hard for us children of California of the 60's sometimes to take the Western medicine route but sounds like you did the absolutely right thing.</p>

<p>thanks, Alu. It does seem to have worked out well.</p>

<p>chammom: Please excuse me if this was addressed above, you really got a long thread going! </p>

<p>What interests your son? </p>

<p>Does he have or can he get a job and/or steady volunteer position in his area(s) of interest?</p>

<p>SBMOM. Thanks for the informative post. Glad it is working out.</p>

<p>ADad: This thread was really been a source of support for me.</p>

<p>My son is glued to the computer every available moment, talking to people, playing games, surfing. He just gotr a p/t job as a life guard. As luck would have it, there is another guy at his job that brings in a laptop and they play games when they are not in the chair. My son could do school work during that time, but ofcourse that does not happen.</p>

<p>
[quote]
he never quite connected with the other kids in our neighborhood who attended that school with him.

[/quote]
I've noticed that when my ADHD or ADD students are on their meds they seem happier, more positive, and have much better social interactions with other students - not to mention the improved academic effects. My unmedicated students (I teach kinder, so there is usually one or two in my class that get diagnosed during the year) have less positive social interactions and don't experience school as such a happy place. This just makes sense - if you are twitching, vocalizing and subvocalizing, bopping your neighbor, pulling the hair of the kid in front of you, flipping your pencil at your friend, crawling on the floor during story time, and hopping down the hallway touching and grabbing all the artwork on the walls - school isn't so fun, other people don't trust you (you write on their schoolwork when they turn around for a second, break their crayons, etc.), and the teacher is ALWAYS on your case. I'm not a person who believes in lots of medicine - but I have SEEN the difference it makes. If your kid is diabetic he or she deserves insulin. If your kid has ADHD or ADD he or she deserves the chance to suceed and experience school / friends in a positive way. Just MHO!</p>

<p>OK.</p>

<ol>
<li> How about a part-time job at a game store or computer store? He can be successful, he can be admired, he can learn the beauty of one's work being one's passion, he can be responsible, he can be creative in his work. Games/computers could even eventually become a career or a full-time job--design and/or evaluate and/or produce and/or sell.</li>
</ol>

<p>--and/or--</p>

<p>A part-time job could lead to a full-time job at such a store, which could be a bridge between high school and college. There is the possibility that he can really blossom and mature in that setting.</p>

<ol>
<li> Any other areas of interest that might be cultivated if he was not always on the computer?</li>
</ol>

<p>My D too was just diagnosed. She kept insisting she was ADD but has no hyperactivity with it and we just missed it, she always did great in school but was disorganized, ALWAYS late for everything, it became a joke and while extremely social she would make plans with 3 different groups of friends on the same night for the same time.She joined everything, had lots of leadership roles and life was always hectic and a mad scramble. She was happy to get a diagnosis and find it was not just her personality. We realized she may be right after her SATs were low 1300s and she did not do well on APs even though she had A's in her AP class. Once the test was long she fell apart. She is going to try medication but I am a little nervous about it. I appreciate the post SB mom. I am not sure about the difference in various meds ie ritalin vs aderal so would be interested if anyone has input.</p>

<p>I just read more of the thread re accomidations, again this is very individual. For some students it is important but many can make it without. I have heard that being labled can hurt someone applying to grad school, especially med school . I know that is illegal and against the disabilities act but it does have an influence on the committees decision.They would never admit it. If you can make it without accomidations then try but if you need them go for it.</p>

<p>We've had threads about this before, and I'm always left feeling that a medication trial period can be most useful to ascertain if the medication benefits outweigh the risks. Also, for young adults, other drugs beside ritalin/stratera/adderil are used; sometimes Prozac and Zoloft increase the ability to concentrate.</p>

<p>Its absolutely amazing the irrational things I've seen elementary school teachers do. I remember one who punished the kids who couldn't sit still by depriving them of recess!!!
"Caging" a child to keep him from being distracted shows such a lack of sensitivity and kindness.</p>

<p>Often the problem with medicating teens is that the teens refuse medication because they insist that they are perfectly fine without it. My S who is ADHD stopped taking his meds at about age 14. He would fake taking his meds, and when we caught him, he simply refused to take them.</p>

<p>This was unfortunate because when he was on meds, his grades were higher and he didn't have the minor, but irritating behavior problems that he tended to have in school. I can not speak directly to how different he was on meds because I never saw him on meds. He took them directly before school, and the effects wore off by the time he was home.</p>

<p>I was diagnosed ADD as a middle aged adult and have taken Adderal. Before I started taking other medication for other illnesses, the Adderal made me much more calm and focused. I'd use it when I had a lot of work-oriented things to juggle. I do not like taking meds, so didn't take Adderal daily. It definitely wasn't addictive, just made it easier to handle situations requiring lots of organization.</p>

<p>Now that I'm on some other meds for some physical conditions, it doesn't work as well, so I tend not to bother taking it. Instead, I've been practicing meditation, which I think has been helping me focus better.</p>

<p>I suggest reading books on ADD/ADHD by Dr. Daniel Amen and by Thom Hartman. Those authors' books have excellent, understandable and very supportive info.</p>

<p>After reading many of these post – I think your sons (the unmotivated ones w/o ADD) are my brother re-incarnated. He was a TOTAL goof-off until late into HS junior year. For some bizarre reason a cute-bright-energetic girl decided she want my brother to be her BF. There was an almost immediate transformation. He started bathing regularly without having to be asked. They studied together and she made him drop his worthless friends. She got him a part-time job in her dad’s business. His grades went from Cs to A-B. We LOVED this girl and she was included in all family events. They split when she went off to college and my brother attended a local U. Fortunately, the maturity he gained during senior year was enough to keep him focused in college.</p>

<p>update: I have listened to the posts and have indeed backed off. Since this thread began,I have see (dare I say it?) a slight improvement. Keep your fingers crossed!</p>

<p>chammom - sending support vibes your way and crossing some extra fingers on your behalf ;)</p>

<p>I wonder whether it is a good idea for an easily bored, possibly ADD person to be a lifeguard, especially if he returns to the chair with his mind possibly on his break-time gaming.</p>

<p>arizonamom - you asked about differences in meds, particularly ritalin & adderall. I'm not too familiar with adderall, but am pretty sure both are stimulants. Stimulants generally have the opposite effect on people with ADD/ADHD (calming them down.) However, finding the right meds is very much a trial and error process. My D (who has ADHD) tried Ritalin for three days a number of years ago, and for the her the effect was a super-stimulant. Not a three days I would want to repeat. She never stopped talking or moving and couldn't even sleep. She now takes a combination of Wellbutrin (an anti-depressant also used to ADHD) and Luvox. She does have OCPD (Obsessive-Compulsive Personality Disorder) in addition to the ADHD which complicates the meds situations. But her dr. has said it is often trial and error to determine what works best for each individual. She tried quite a large number of meds -- some made her like a zombie, which was not worth it. But finding the right combo was the best thing that could have happened to her. And even though she went through a time when she didn't want to take meds because she didn't want to be different, she now realizes what a tremendous help they are to her functioning.</p>

<p>Arizonamom, Isn't revealing a disability by the undergraduate institution to the graduate/medical school illegal? Who would be the one to tell the grad school if the student did not?</p>