<p>It is true that a differential rate of attention is also a symptom of ADHD (though the same qualities of intense attention focus only on areas of strong interest, disorganization and inattentiveness of other areas of life - are ALSO characteristic of high giftedness; the "absent-minded professor" syndrome). </p>
<p>However, having a label or diagnosis is not a cure - and the ultimate issue is how is this person going to function effectively in an adult world, whether or not in college. Often the solution is a matter of finding a good career match - not all jobs are 9-5 or detail-oriented. </p>
<p>My son also experienced the "surprise only to him" quiz syndrome in college - though fortunately it happened in the first week of the class where quizzes were routine, so he recovered from his error and did not repeat the mistake. It's sometimes a mismatch of communication styles.</p>
<p>In any case, my son has done very well out of school working in a management capacity -- the best thing in the world for his organization skills was for him to be put in charge of something. Whether it is because his motivation is enhanced by the sense of responsibility, or that he is able to successfully pass of some of the detail work to subordinates, I don't know -- I just know that many of the classroom problems and issues are not a problem in a world where projects tend to be goal oriented and work place routines are more predictable.</p>
<p>I too have a HS senior son who is brilliant & for many reasons his grades don't reflect it. He has a very good understanding of everything covered at school & has a 3.6 weighted GPA with a 2230/1560 SAT. He's had to overcome significant health issues for the past 5 years, which sap his stamina as well. It makes parenting especially challenging.
His younger sister is a sophomore who is bright as well but pretty disorganized. She also has health issues which sap her stamina. Parenting the two of them really makes us weigh our priorities. It's a tough balancing act, wanting them to be all the can be when we never know whether they'll be physically able to attend school from one day to the next.
I count my blessings that they have a school & friends that care about them and somehow are able to keep up to varying degrees with all their schoolwork. Life is very different than I had imagined--in many ways, more challenging than ever.</p>
<p>If your son does have ADD you do want to follow up because that diagnosis, after the appropriate testing performed by the licensed professionals that a college will accept. This is because he would be entitled to accommodations in college. For example, the college may find a person that could sit with him to look at his workload and break it down into steps and give him deadlines for those steps. Then they would meet again. It could save him from failing.</p>
<p>My son went on an overnight at a college and sat in on a class.When he got home he actually talked to me about how interesting he found the subject matter. So, I do think that it is true that he is bored in school, but I also know that he is sometimes unprepared in subjects that he does like. Also, isn't life it self boring at times, and tasks we do are boring at times? Yet we do them because we know that they have to be done. That is the part my son doesn't get.</p>
<p>As far as ADD, even if he does have it, since we decided not to medicate, he still needs to learn coping mechanisms such as writng things down, time management etc. I realise that does not come easy for him, but that is life.We have to learn to overcome obstacles. I do feel for him though. I know that accomadations are available with an ADD diagnosis, but he is not going to get that in the real world. I think it may be appropriate for some, but I think, knowing my son, he will fight it tooth and nail. We had to drag him to the initial evaluation.</p>
<p>Many people with ADD cannot step up to the expectations that others have. They can be slow to develop the skills you describe. Many will fail and drop out of higher education because of this. Lets say that there were a student a visual impairment rendering them legally blind. Even with a 1500 sat and high IQ one would not expect that student to see because that is what is expected by others in life. It is a disability and that student would require assistance-perhaps he/she would need to type in braille, require books recorded on tape, might need some tutoring because they may have missed the information presented visually. Students with ADD may require some assistance as well, such as a coach to help them organize and manage their time.</p>
<p>I hae not read the whole thread but want to comment on this excerpt below:</p>
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So, I do think that it is true that he is bored in school, but I also know that he is sometimes unprepared in subjects that he does like. Also, isn't life it self boring at times, and tasks we do are boring at times? Yet we do them because we know that they have to be done. That is the part my son doesn't get.
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<p>While schools should prepare students for the real world, I don't think they should prepare students for a world of boredom. Yes, lots of real life work is tedious, but it need not be meaningless. Doing research, checking footnotes, all this can be extremely tedious, but it is far from meaningless. However, many teachers think that if a student has finished some problems early, that student should be given more of the same. The contrary is true. If a student finishes early and has done the problems correctly, this means the problems are too easy and the student should be given more challenging work.
Another problem we've faced is teachers putting too much emphasis on neatness and nice presentation. Again, my S did not care enough about too-easy assignments to be neat and work hard on presentation. He invested a lot more effort into assignments that were more challenging and this effort went into style as well as substance.</p>
<p>northeastmom - while I agree that sometimes ADD kids need accomodation, I think chammom is right -- that they need to get used to the fact that in the real world, they will not receive accomodations. They need to be able to learn to manage their own disorganization and forgetfulness, and come up with strategies that work for them in order to get through college. My D has been diagnosed since 2nd grade, and have been on meds. Finding the right combination has totally changed her life. While we were reluctant to medicate, she would not be where she is today without it. THat's not to say that meds take care of all symptoms. She is still very easily distracted (therefore takes longer to get her homework done), she's a perfectionist, forgets and loses things all the time. Still, she has been able to maintain maximum honors throughout her high school career. Fortunately, she has not had academic problems because her abilities compensate for her problems. I have been a total CM and have struggled with whether to be one or not throughout. I am constantly reminding her to stay focused, reminding her not to forget things, to talk to who she needs to at school, etc. In some ways, I think this has been beneficial, as some of my nagging about organization has rubbed off, and she is able to be more organized (also maturity probably has something to do with it). Now that its her senior year, I am trying to back off, but I still find it very hard. I don't want her not to succeed due to her disorganization, but keep reminding her that she will need to be on her own next year. But I am also helping with the college process. If I left it up to her, she would probably never get it done. And she truly does want to go next year. I have been organizing her materials, making sure she gets done what needs to be done, etc. and she truly appreciates this. Its a complicated process, and just because a kid seems to be reluctant to get it done, doesn't mean they are not motivated to go. Like she says, its her senior year, she wants to have a good time and not have to waste too much time on planning for next year.</p>
<p>northeastmom: I agree that students with ADD need and should get assistance. However, the student has to be open to accepting this assistance.My son is very resistant to a diagnosis of ADD or any accomodations. Maybe it is because of what happened to him when he was younger.</p>
<p>When he was in 3rd grade we moved to a new community and a new school. Shortly after school began, the teacher called me to say that she was moving my son's seat because he was talking to his deskmate, and not paying attnetion. I said fine. Everyday my son complained about school and that he wasn't making friends etc. I thought it was adjustment pains so I decided tio give it some time before speaking to the teacher. A few weeks later, I went to his classroom and was horrified to see that the teacher had placed his desk against a side wall, away from all the other kids, and put blinders on both sides of his desk so he could only see the blackboard. No wonder all of his classmates avoided him or teased him about having "kooties". I immediately went down to the principals office and the desk was moved back and the teacher was spoken to, but the damage was done. The teacher resented him and took every opportunity to humiliate him on class. Knowing of all this difficulties, I asked that his class be changed. The principal refused, but said she herself would monitor mty son's progress . She had him tested and moved into the gifted program which was a pull out for 1/2 hour twice week. In addition, she had him come to her office several times a week for enrichment help, as well as see a resource room teacher for help with his fine motor skills, and another pull out for advanced math. She meant well, and all of this should have helped, but all the other kids saw was that my son was "different", and was always in the principal's office. He had a terrible year, and even though his teachers in the years to come were much better, he never quite connected with the other kids in our neighborhood who attended that school with him. To this day he is adamant about not appearing to be different and refuses to accept the possibility of ADD.</p>
<p>marite:I agree that sometimes the emphasis in school is on busy work, etc. I have often wondered how my son would have turned out if he had been given thefreedom to choose what he wanted to study, and at what pace. I agree that schools often stifle creativity and individuality, but this is the world in which we live.Hopefully, college will be a more interesting enviornment for him, if he makes it that far!</p>
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I agree that schools often stifle creativity and individuality, but this is the world in which we live.
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<p>Again, I have not followed all the posts, and I don't know the details of your S's situation. We solved our S's boredom problem by persuading his school to let him be drastically advanced in the areas he excelled in. That had very positive repercussions in the areas that were not his strengths as well. He did not again complain he was bored in school except one year when he was placed in a class that was below his level. The school knew it, but it was the only class offered that year. Midway through the class, the teacher let him peel off from the regular curriculum and do a special project of his own. He chose a challenging one and no longer complained of being bored. His grade also shot up as a result of his greater investment in his studies.</p>
<p>northeastmom - while I agree that sometimes ADD kids need accomodation, I think chammom is right -- that they need to get used to the fact that in the real world, they will not receive accomodations</p>
<p>actually accomodations will be available in college and in the workplace if there is a documented need. It falls under the civil rights act and is called a 504 accomodation rather than an IEP as in special education. We have both principals and teachers who have accomodations.
My daughter who has such severe ADD that she still does not have her drivers liscense at 23, is doing pretty well. She can pick a career and workplace which suits her temprament and learning style unlike in K-12 school where students are often at the mercy of the amount of flexibilty in their district and willingness & ability of their parents to help them manuver the process.</p>
<p>Marite, I agree with you, but I also think a distinction need be made between boredom and disinterest. As you've mentioned, boredom can be addressed by increasing the challenge. It's more problematic to address disinterest -- for example, a math/science whiz has no interest in foreign language yet feels the need to take it for 4 years in order to be a competitive candidate, or a wonderful fine arts student suffering through calculus for the same reason. </p>
<p>On those occasions, I tend to agree with chammom. While it would be nice if the teacher could make the subject more interesting to a particular student, sometimes that just doesn't happen. In those cases I DO think the student needs to suck it up and do what needs to be done (i.e. give their best effort), even if they have little interest. That's not "preparing them for a world of boredom", it's teaching them discipline so they can meet the challenges of a world where not everything they need to do interests them.</p>
<p>Chammom, I am sorry about the experience your child had as a youngster. It is a shame. Some teachers are cookie cutter types and do not know how to teach children with different learning styles, or do not get the administrative support they require to do the job well. Despite all of the past, if your son does not want to seek help, then that is a different story. In college one needs to seek help on their own. I hope he realizes that if he did seek help, it could remain confidential (unless he needed to get accommodations from a professor). I guess you need to decide with your S if you want to take the sink or swim approach. You are afraid of him sinking now and how it will effect him. What happens next year? If you take the sink or swim approach why not do it now where you can keep close tabs. Perhaps you can ask for progress reports by emailing teachers to make sure that the grades are up and hw is in before you are too far along in the marking period? If he is sinking you'll at least know that your S will need some help in college and you can point out that he has xy and z missing, and will need some guidance in college.</p>
<p>Of course, every situation is different and I would not want to generalize. I witnesed my S working harder across the board once he felt sufficiently challenged in his particularly area of interest. The enthusiasm he had for that subject carried over into others. But I agree that when students are truly uninterested in a particular subject, it's much harder to motivate them to try.
btw, math and linguistics have more in common than one would think. My S is taking a linguistics class; he was attracted by the course description that focuses on logic and structure. He can take that class because he tested out of foreign languages using Latin, a language that appealed to him because of its structure.</p>
<p>marite -- absolutely agree on foreign language. I could make the same point re math and music. Unfortunately, far too many teachers around here treat foreign language (even at the Junior and Senior levels) as a "memorize vocabulary" exercise. And many math teachers, because of their own background, don't see the link between math and music composition.</p>
<p>I am just hopping in to register my complaints about many math teachers who are not mathematicians but teachers w/o much training in math. I will never understand that training to be a teacher supersedes needing to have studied high level math but oh well. I am not saying they are not smart just not trained in math........too low a level to serve high functioning kids.</p>
<p>What i am saying is that parents don't demand and question the system of teaching math......I recognize that paying for PhDs in math to teach in high school is not happening very many places. I am just stating what I see as a big part of the problem with the US math curriculum.....too much time spent teaching lower level math....way too much time.</p>
<p>hazmat...you hit a nerve!!! (not in a bad way).
I've long complained that people interested in math rarely go on to teach it. This is especially true at grade school / middle school. I hoped once my kids entered high school, that would no longer be true. But what did I find? In many high schools the math teachers are coaches first, math educators second. AURGH!!! </p>
<p>To contradict myself however: One math teacher I know is brilliant in the subject -- but so much so, that it is difficult for him to teach it to others. Students are basically just expected to "get it" on their own. Some of the best teachers I know, were not necessarily the most brilliant students themselves. They may have a love for the particular subject, or perhaps understand what it takes to teach. Unfortunately I have not found too many of those in the math field either.</p>
<p>I had great math teachers in HS and okay ones in middle school. What i don't like is that the curriculum is so limited......early on. I feel this hurts many US kids.....they don't choose college programs that focus on math related majors. I mean more than engineering. The US needs to look at how to increase the interest at the middle school level.</p>
<p>Getting back to the unmotivated student and what to do (or not do) once they are on their own in college-----Many colleges do offer support services, workshops and even tutoring services. Sometimes these programs are geared to LD students, but many times they are open to all. I just went on the website of Syracuse U (not a school my d is going to apply to because it is too cold). But it is definitely a great school and popular with NY kids. Through there Division of Student Support and Retention - they have a Student Success Initiative. Services include personal coaching, facilitated study groups and other services. George Mason, a school my d is going to apply to had workshops in time management, dealing with procrastination and other areas. Now I don't know if a kid will take advantage of this- but it is available. Other colleges have "Learning Communities" within the university setting. Some Honors Programs are similar in format but many schools have them for non-Honor students. It may be a smaller group of kids who take a few of the same courses in a related topic or field. Often there is a faculty advisor who will work more closely with this group of kids. It is an interesting concept and may be helpful to the "unfocused" kid as it will encourage him to work within the group structure. I will try to find the website that gave a listing of the schools that had Learning Communities. I believe the website was through Evergreen U. I also believe U of Michigan has these learning communities. Once our kids are away at school, I think there is very little control we have (short of not paying tuition) so it is important to find the right environment for your kid. I never heard the term Learning Community until I went to a presentation at Temple U. Coincidentally 3 of the schools my d may be applying to, have these communities.</p>