<p>Actually UCB, the Peer Assessment Score is now only 15% of the total, with the School Counselor Rating accounting for an additional 7.5%.</p>
<p>^ is that extra 7.5% into guidance counselors new this year? If so, UCLA will fall. Guidance counselors don’t seem to rate UCLA very highly :’(</p>
<p>The guidance counselor rating has been part of the ranking for a couple of years, so you have nothing to fear beyphy. That being said, the fact that the PA has dropped in value from 25% to 15% does not help research powerhouses like UCLA, but the negative effects of the change in methodology is a couple of years old now and should not impact UCLA this comming year.</p>
<p>I don’t understand why UCLA and UCB don’t start playing this ranking game. It’s extremely hard to ignore. I’ve talked personally with high people in the UCLA administration, and they honestly don’t seem to care about USNEWS. There are many in depth examples I could give, but the point is I don’t understand why the administration doesn’t realize (and/or doesn’t care) that the unfortunate reality is that we have to play the game or get gamed. Too many uneducated people in the country regard that ranking as the holy bible of colleges, and unfortunately since those large number of uneducated people make up such a large portion of the population, it will undoubtedly impact public image. We should follow Michigan’s fine example of adopting the common app (and still keep the UC app in place also) to increase applicant size and drop another 5-10% on our admission rate. That is a quick and easy thing to do. We could also do many other things, but that would be a good first step. </p>
<p>Also, I agree with beyphy that high school counselors don’t like public schools in comparison to privates, a bias that skews the USNEWS’s bias even more so.</p>
<p>
They sound intelligent.</p>
<p>
I’m pretty sure that overachieving high school students are the only people who care about those rankings. </p>
<p>One of the reasons people here claim that UCB and UCLA are so good is that they are major research hubs in the academic community. If this is the case (it is), then why should they try to be something they’re not? (i.e. an undergrad destination for spoiled rich kids who only care about college rankings)</p>
<p>g0ld3n, you will find that most senior administrators at public universities do not care much for rankings, and I do not blame them. The USNWR only matters to high school students and not-so-educated parents who are not sufficiently informed on their own. The intellectual elite as well as corporate America does not pay attention to the USNWR, those are the opinions that matter.</p>
<p>As for playing the rankings game, I am affraid public universities cannot do it as freely as private universities. There are regulations and audits that prevent public universities from doing so.</p>
<p>“We should follow Michigan’s fine example of adopting the common app…”</p>
<p>The current application that the UC campuses have right now is already like the CA. Just a simple check on an the application and some additional money allows a student to apply to as many of the UC campuses he/should could want at one time. That’s a lot of applications already from a state with over 37,000,000 million people in it.</p>
<p>
It’s not as if UCLA is ranked low on USNEWS. </p>
<p>There are probably dozens, if not hundreds of public universities in the US. Only three make it into the USNEWS top 25 (considered “elite”) Berkeley, UCLA, and UVA. That in itself is astonishing. And UCLA ranking position hasn’t particularly changed much in the last couple of years. From '99 to '07 it’s roughly been at 25-26.</p>
<p><a href=“http://web.archive.org/web/20070908142457/http://chronicle.com/stats/usnews/[/url]”>http://web.archive.org/web/20070908142457/http://chronicle.com/stats/usnews/</a></p>
<p>Also, UCLA’s the only university in the top 25 that isn’t +100 years old (it’s 93 i think.)</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I was talking about UCLA in particular. The five best state public universities (in no particular order) are Berkeley, UCLA, UNC, UVA, and Michigan. Here are the guidance counselor scores:</p>
<ol>
<li>Berkeley (4.5)</li>
<li>UVA (4.4)</li>
<li>UNC (4.4)</li>
<li>Michigan (4.3)</li>
<li>UCLA (4.2)</li>
</ol>
<p>[High</a> School Counselor Rankings | Rankings | Top National Universities | US News](<a href=“http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities/high-school-counselor/page+2]High”>http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities/high-school-counselor/page+2)</p>
<p>In nearly every ranking i’ve seen, UCLA is ranked #2 usually just behind Berkeley in terms of public universities. This in in terms in virtue of being a world university:</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/world-university-rankings/2011-2012/top-400.html[/url]”>http://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/world-university-rankings/2011-2012/top-400.html</a></p>
<p>Repuation:</p>
<p>[Top</a> Universities by Reputation 2012](<a href=“http://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/world-university-rankings/2011-2012/reputation-rankings.html]Top”>World Reputation Rankings 2012 | Times Higher Education (THE))</p>
<p>Lay prestige:</p>
<p>[Harvard</a> Number One University in Eyes of Public](<a href=“Harvard Number One University in Eyes of Public”>Harvard Number One University in Eyes of Public)</p>
<p>National universities:</p>
<p>[National</a> University | Rankings | Data | US News](<a href=“http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities/data/spp+50]National”>http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities/data/spp+50)</p>
<p>Recruitment:</p>
<p>[Education</a> - Image - NYTimes.com](<a href=“Education - Image - NYTimes.com”>Education - Image - NYTimes.com)</p>
<p>So why, in virtue of all of this is it ranked #5, when in all of these rankings it’s ranked (at lowest) in a tie for # 2 (USNWR with Virginia; Gallup with Michigan) I think the high school counselors have a bias against UCLA probably because, unlike the other 4, it isn’t its own state’s flagship. But that’s merely conjecture.</p>
<p>Beyphy, Cal is the clear cut #1 public university in the US, but UCLA is not the clear #2 public university. It is clearly one of the top 5, but the same can be said of Michigan, UNC and UVa. Any rating that has has those four universities rated 2-5 is fairly accurate because there is no difference in quality between those universities.</p>
<p>Why does everyone think Penn will move down in the ranks?</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>^ Perhaps. I guess at this level the other four are perhaps tit-for-tat: Michigan, at least, seems to beat UCLA in terms of it’s professional schools (law, medicine, business) whereas UCLA seems to beat Michigan in terms of its hospital (RR) and in terms of overall research. (where it’s generally ranked higher.) and they’re both fairly equal in terms of international reputation.</p>
<p>Not sure how UNC and UVA fare in professional schools in general. But their international reputations seems as if it’s lacking from what i’ve seen.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Which is why it annoys me that guidance counselors rank it far lower than the others. Were it ranked 4.4 with Virginia and UNC, i bet its ranking would be higher.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Which is why it annoys me that guidance counselors rank it far lower than the others. Were it ranked 4.4 with Virginia and UNC, i bet its ranking would be higher. </p>
<p>I believe UCLA’s lower PA score is somewhat similar to Michigan State’s situation when there exists another older and more established flagship school in the same state. I believe in all fairness, both UCLA & MSU should have slightly higher PA score of 4.3 (if not 4.4) and 3.7 (if not 3.8), respectively. :)</p>
<p>Saint Ann’s and Chapin are not boarding schools :P</p>
<p>The five best state public universities are Berkeley, Michigan, UVA, UCLA, and UNC. Here are the PA scores by knowledgeable academics:</p>
<ol>
<li><p>Berkeley (4.7)</p></li>
<li><p>Michigan (4.5)</p></li>
<li><p>UVA (4.3)</p></li>
<li><p>UCLA (4.2) 4. UNC (4.2)</p></li>
</ol>
<p>I would think that the Peer Assessment score measures academic research reputation more than undergraduate education. I’d consider it much more highly with respect to graduate school than undergraduate.</p>
<p>That’s not to say that these schools aren’t great for undergrad, but that I’d use different information to demonstrate it.</p>
<p>^it’s likely based on research reputation (influenced in part by graduate programs). It’s why a school like Dartmouth (which is ranked #1 for undergraduate teaching by US News itself) scores low on “undergraduate” peer reputation despite having superior placement of graduates in graduate/professional school and job positions (something that should matter a lot more than the rank of a program. It’s telling when their graduates enter top engineering schools in droves compared to say Purdue (with a higher ranked program). Peer assessment is by college presidents who are often more concerned with generating revenue via research and by president assistants that are clueless. There’s no way either one can be in tune with the undergraduate experience at all other peer institutions. Additionally, these presidents have Ph.Ds usually. They <em>might</em> be more inclined to judge schools by their research reputation. This is conjecture however, as have been most posts in this thread concerning the whole state vs. private school debate.</p>
<p>“UCLA seems to beat Michigan in terms of its hospital (RR) and in terms of overall research…”</p>
<p>Hospitals are fairly close with a slight edge to UCLA. You do realize that Michigan is the second largest university based research institution (in terms of dollars garnered) in this country right?</p>
<p>“There’s no way they can be in tune with the undergraduate experience at peer institutions.”</p>
<p>But high school counselors are. LOL</p>
<p>^ Hah. It’s pretty discouraging to know the only real reason why these schools are ranked as they are are because of beyond clueless high school counselors. Maybe I just had a horrid experience with mine, but I don’t think people with such low credentials should be held in such high regard for a “nationally reputable ranking.” Don’t get me wrong, there are amazing HS counselors, and I have known one or two who are amazing people and actually smart. This is just about the most unreliable way to rank colleges.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>UCLA: ranked 5 (25/30 points in 14/16 specialties)</p>
<p>Michigan: ranked 14 (10/30 points in 6/16 specialties.)</p>
<p>doesn’t seem like a “slight” edge to me lol.</p>
<p>[Best</a> Hospitals 2011-12: the Honor Roll - US News and World Report](<a href=“http://health.usnews.com/health-news/best-hospitals/articles/2011/07/18/best-hospitals-2011-12-the-honor-roll]Best”>http://health.usnews.com/health-news/best-hospitals/articles/2011/07/18/best-hospitals-2011-12-the-honor-roll)</p>
<p>On a serious note though, RR has been ranked the “best in the west” for like 30 years, and it’s essentially the pride and joy of UCLA. That’s not surprising since it’s the second best university hospital only behind Hopkins.</p>
<p>What’s more surprising, imo, is that it’s better than UCSF which is ranked 7 (20/30 points in 11/16 specialties.)</p>
<p>EDIT: i just read this:</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Looks like Michigan barely makes the cut lol.</p>