<p>And to say that the kids who are on these boards would not use the work “relish” is absurd and insulting to these kids. Dav Pilkey’s book “Dogzilla” had a line something like “with all the relish he could muster,” so my kids have known that word since about 3rd grade. I bet many of us could tell stories of amazing vobaculary coming out of our kids’ mouths. :)</p>
<p>I have called the colleges to check on apps/financial stuff because my son is in a program in the AM in which he is in the hospital/doctor’s offices and can’t call, and then rushes back to school for his afternoon classes, and then runs off to soccer, or skiing, or Quiz Bowl practice, or one of any number of activities that these very busy kids are engaged in. We just spoke this AM that his hours are never less than 7AM to 8PM. Unfortunately, most Admissions offices are not open at 6:50 in the morning or 8:30 at night, so I have called.
Am I overstepping my bounds? Probably. But it is just a matter of practicality.</p>
<p>The comment “Watch out for Mom!”…
At our school, teachers and mentors are told not to communicate with or about students and parents in an inflammatory way. Problems were handled, or supposed to be handled, professionally. If a student had issues in class, for example, they needed to be documented in a specific and meaningful manner. IOW, putting a sticky note in his file saying something like “Student is a real PITA!” would not be acceptable. If the school had issues with a particular parent, I’m not sure how they were addressed (I never had this problem), but I’m assuming they were addressed professionally, in meetings or writing- not with a sticky note on the students college application saying “Watch out for Mom!” </p>
<p>I do know of some parents who, over the years, clashed with administrators or teachers. I doubt that those battles were used against the student, though. I suppose if whatever problems there were affected the student’s work or behavior- then it might have been mentioned.</p>
<p>I think the same thing goes with complaining about a teacher. One has to go through formal process. A parent cannot send an anonymous letter and write such and such thing. It’s not allowed because it’s not a fair process to the teacher. So why is it different when it comes to a child. It seems unfair to put a sticky note.</p>
<p>I emailed my Ds college once- to let them know that opening the dorms one day before classes started in January was very difficult for students flying in from the far coast- this school used to have mostly “area” northeast students, but now has more and more from further away, so haven’t been as thoughtful when it comes to kids having to make fight reservations etc- there was a program D would have attened, but notification was sent out after most smart people had already made travel arrangment- point was, if I didn’t communicate that as a FAMILY, getting earlier information was most helpful</p>
<p>That being said, if a child has quiz practice, or skiing, or whatever and are soo booked they can’t make a phone call, they do to step up and tell the people they are in clubs with etc. Hey, I need to make an important phone call and this is the only time I can do it…be back in 15 minutes…is that some how unreasnable for a person to do</p>
<p>We act as if these clubs, and meetings, and practices are the most important things in the world and they are not…if you have to contact someone at a certain time, and its important, then a maturing person needs to be able to commnicate that to a coach, a tutor, a study group whatever</p>
<p>If we just keep saying, oh they are soooo busy that they can’t make a phone call for themselves, and can’t even figure out how to get ten minutes to do that, we are not letting them take control of their own lives- and sometimes that control is telling someone you need ten minutes to contact someone</p>
<p>If we taught our kids THAT very important tool, then we wouldn’t have to helicoptor so much, dont’ you think?</p>
<p>Yes, they are involved in activities, but that is a choice, correct and part of that CHOICE is saying, I can’t today, I HAVE to make this phone call, or I will be late, I have to take care of this college thing</p>
<p>Are kids too afraid to step up, and basically stand up for themselves at some club meeting</p>
<p>My D did yearbook- it was a very busy time, but she somehow managed to say, I CAN"T come in tomorrow, I have to do this, but I will come in extra on Thursday, what a concept, figuring out how to take care of your own business and not think that each and every club meeting is the most important thing in the world</p>
<p>Kdis think they are the center of the world and are so fearfui of missing a meeting or whatever, knowing that mommy will not force them to choose, heaven forbid they have to sacrifice a meeting so they can make some important phone calls</p>
<p>This just has been irking me, oh they are sooo busy, they can’t take care of what they need to, so mom has to…that busy is a CHOICE…and with that choice, comes learning when to step back and say, I need to slow down and take care of this…why are kids so afraid to say Hey, I can’t come to the meeting this week, sorry…</p>
<p>adigal–I can just hear a little kid reading that as “with all the relish he could mustard” and falling down laughing! Mine would have.</p>
<p>cgm–my D had to learn in college that the world wouldn’t end if she didn’t do everything there was to do. That there were only 24 hours in the day, she needed to manage her time as well as sleep occasionally, and even say no sometimes. Which she didn’t ever do in HS!</p>
<p>Sometimes the activities and, more to the point, the adults who lead them make rescheduling virtually impossible. I can think of several of daughter’s honors orchestras for which the only acceptable excuse for missing even one rehearsal was a medical emergency (with a doctor’s note) or a conflict with a school orchestra performance (with a note from the orchestra director.) Students were routinely thrown out of those groups for a single unexcused absence. A second missed rehearsal, even with one of those excuses, also meant instant dismissal. Had she even once said “I can’t come to this meeting” at lower levels, she would not have been eligible for state and regional level groups.</p>
<p>My D also had a talk with her teacher. She expressed concern the way the teacher organized this EC’s activity which has not worked out well for everybody. I mean this teacher has young children under 2 and barely gets to see her kids every night. So it’s not entirely a kid’s fault. I’m glad she did voice her concern in a mature way. Her teacher listened to her suggestion but who knows whether things will be better.</p>
<p>“For example, a 17-year-old would not use the word ‘relish’ except in reference to a condiment on a hotdog.” </p>
<p>What does this person know about real 17-year-olds? She obviously only deals with those who are too dumb to know what relish means, too lazy to use [url=<a href=“http://www.thesaurus.com%5DThesaurus.com%5B/url”>http://www.thesaurus.com]Thesaurus.com[/url</a>] to come up with another way to phrase how much they like or enjoy an activity or thing, or so unmotivated that their parents have to hire a private consultant to help them write essays that don’t include words like “relish.”</p>
<p>Between the "I don’t believe that a 17 year old knows alternative meanings for the word ‘relish’, and the comments about sneaking sticky notes onto recommendation letters with juvenile and baseless comments- the article exposes a darker and not-so-flattering side of high school administrators/counselors. If my kids hadn’t already matriculated, these anecdotes would scare me.</p>
<p>For all you parents, I just thought you should know that your kids CAN stand on their own two feet. The big issue at stake is your respect for us–we respect you as parents immensely and hope that we can earn that same respect in return. While every child is different, parents need to assess the boundaries of each child and respect them. </p>
<p>My mother has always taken the time to have serious discussions with me, whether I initiated them or she. She speaks to me as a contemporary in these instances, and rarely is school or my performance in school drawn into the equation. If I want to debate a historical event or muse over a geometric postulate, she’s doesn’t say, “Oh, did you ace your such-and-such test?” She understands that my desire to LEARN is at times completely separate from my school responsibility to KNOW. </p>
<p>I won’t deny that I’ve earned the respect, but I still think all parents should give all kids breathing room. My mother never stomped on my toes. If a paper was due (way back in fifth grade or whatever), she would help me with it, ask me about it, but never DO it. Actually doing work, I think should be reserved for the youngest grades (you can’t deny that every kindergartener has had heavy parent assistance–hell, I babysit and sometimes cough an answer). She never made/makes me schedules. In fact, she rarely has any clue what particular projects I’m working on at any given time, unless my same-grade cousin tells her.</p>
<p>But on the other hand, we have my sister. A little less academically motivated, if only to prove that the second child does have to stomp through my footsteps. Which, of course, she doesn’t, but that doesn’t make it any easier when she flat up refuses to assess why she has a C in this or a D on this test. For her, my mother bothers her a bit more, checks up on her, and will review her papers. BUT my mother has never written a single word of her work, nor a single problem for math. They discuss, and while my sister may get frustrated and basically go, Nope, don’t wanna learn, can I have the answer? my mom always tells her that it’s my mother’s explanation or none at all. My mom’s a bit more knowledgeable about my sister’s work–checks teacher emails, asks my sister about her progress. And while I know that my mother will help my sis a bit more than she ever did me, she still respects my sister, never doubts her opinion (unless it’s, Math is dumb!). AND I fully believe that while she may have to pester my sis about college apps, college will be her time to work things out. </p>
<p>And just as a side note, I think that pestering parents shouldn’t MAKE their kids schedules but make their KIDS write them and then stick to it. Much more valuable. And when I had a B (in an easy class that I just slacked off in, not genuinely deserved), I proposed a plan to raise it. I think parents have two responsibilities: respect, and to instill (not themselves exemplify) discipline.</p>
<p>“too lazy to use Thesaurus.com to come up with another way to phrase how much they like or enjoy an activity or thing”</p>
<p>If you’re using a thesaurus to write a college essay, you’re making a big mistake.</p>
<p>Trust me.</p>
<p>"If you’re using a thesaurus to write a college essay, you’re making a big mistake.</p>
<p>Trust me."</p>
<p>Yeah but you’re a 17-year-old kid. One without a paid private college consultant to tell him that.</p>
<p>"If you’re using a thesaurus to write a college essay, you’re making a big mistake.</p>
<p>Trust me."
How is this?
A thesaurus is an invaluable tool when used tastefully, in moderation, and by a wise author; i.e., I wouldn’t recommend that a poor writer use one because they are unlikely to truly understand the scope of the words they are selecting.
As for me, my vocabulary would be rather barren and undeveloped were it not for my common use of the thesaurus.
And as for the intervention of my parents, I’ve always been something of an independent soul; their intervention has always been more of an annoying nuisance than anything helpful.
I chime in periodically regarding my grades, which have never really deviated far from an A- average, so it’s not as though parental consultation has ever been a necessity.
We as a society tend to infantilize our children to the extent that it is becoming harmful; I understand that one wants their offspring to succeed, but overbearing parenting is no more than a hindrance to the healthy development of a child. There exists a point at which one must, for good or bad, let go. Such long-term parental dependency leads to nowhere.</p>
<p>Going back to post #3 - shouldn’t that be “…relish their large vocabularies…” or else “…revel in their large vocabularies…”?</p>
<p>My D stonewalled me on the application writing. Believe me, I WANTED to edit: this application was something she had been planning for 8 years. She refused to let me even read it, or the essays, which literally made me crazy. In fact, her main essay was conceived as she hid from me in the shower of the hotel room ( something about raindrops on windows.) And she was accepted to Stanford SCEA. </p>
<p>I don’t know what it signifies, except that she’s just fine on her own!</p>
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<p>That’s exactly how I feel. When I think of helicopter parents in the ‘negative’ sense I think of parents still allowing their kids to rely on them for academic help instead of learning to get that support from peers or professors. I think that learning to ask for help and giving help to others is important and that gets lost when the parents are working on the kid’s essay over e-mail. </p>
<p>On the other hand I think that being there for moral support and encouragement is good- but then I don’t see that as being a helicopter parent. More of a grounded 747 - stable and not going anywhere.</p>
<p>glassesarechic
I appreciate your comments, thank you.
especially your comments about respect and discipline - so true.</p>
<p>I have heard professionals use the term “learned helplessness” which I believe means that the student says “I can’t,” when they really mean “I don’t want to work that hard”…or perhaps sometimes it’s not laziness but lack of confidence and fear of failure.</p>
<p>“learned helplessness” is a bad outcome for an overzealous chopper pilot parent</p>
<p>just like “glasses” mom had to draw the line ---- offer the explanation at most (and not the answer)…the challenge is - whether the helicopter parent’s help is wanted or un-wanted…the parent has the obligation and goal to put themselves out of the ‘helper’ job!</p>
<p>I think I (we) need to make it very clear that any organizational help (or pressure to write essays) is a temporary position.</p>