<p>Actually the Heritage Foundation would do just the opposite of that.</p>
<p>Ummm yeah, that's why it's a joke. I was (quite clearly, I thought) lampooning people who make such claims, as those people typically say the same things about me and my beliefs.</p>
<p>(and psst, I also don't work for them)</p>
<p>No one misconstrued your beliefs in that manner, no one brought up conservatism (or liberalism), and no one who even has a remote clue of what the Heritage Foundation is would 'make such claims'. I hardly see how that could be a joke.</p>
<p>IT HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS THREAD. I made a stupid joke. I'm clearly very outspoken about my beliefs, and in my life I've had many people pidgeon-hole me in negative ways, usually as a close-minded, fascist ultra-conservative. (which I'm not at all) I was LAMPOONING people who typically say those sorts of things to "ultra-conservatives" as stereotypes which I am often mistaken for. IT WAS A DUMB JOKE in response to globalist's comment of my being "thoughtful and intelligent."</p>
<p>Damn, what the hell is your problem? Go away and leave me alone.</p>
<p>IT WAS SARCASM.</p>
<p>who 'dis?????</p>
<p>You want to know why?</p>
<p>You walk into this topic acting "The Man" and proclaim all of us as dishonorable students who are flagrantly violating the Honor Code, when clearly you had little to no understanding of the Honor System at UVA in the first place. Then you proclaim these immutable laws of the social contract that you read about in one book and tell us to read Cliff Notes or some other crap because clearly we were ignorant of the vast knowledge you possess about what is moral and what is immoral. In fact, you said that those were not your opinion, but rather concepts developed by various philosophers that you listed (when you clearly only had an understanding of one of them- an ancient one). Once someone who has more than the Cliff Notes knowledge walks in and points out discrepancies between your definition and the one that is pertinent to this topic, you start complaining that these are just your personal beliefs and all of a sudden your definition of what is right and what is wrong isn't so immutable anymore. Quickly after that you resort to whining about how I am offending you, despite the fact that you strolled into this topic acting as if you were morally superior to cav and jags when they were talking in favor of underage drinking. Unlike Globalist, I do not find this a laughing matter. Nevertheless, since you asked I will leave you alone now.</p>
<p>You sound like an incredibly insecure person. You can't stand someone who disagrees with your behavior and is willing to say it outright and without pause. You can't handle it because you lack the self-confidence to tolerate being judged by someone with different views, so you attack my intelligence, my level of education, and my ability to comprehend this issue. I attempted to discuss this reasonably with you. It went on and on and on, and at the end I attempted to just agree to disagree because you somehow believed your interpretation of literature and philosophy is undeniable reality and I'm ignorant and not well-read. Then myself and the other posters (who, unlike you apparently, have a sense of humor and don't take things too personally) started making jokes...you kept badgering and pestering me. I can tell that I don't like you, I would never like someone like you, and your inability to accept dissent makes me sick.</p>
<p>I think you're wrong. I think your behavior is wrong. I hope you get arrested and put in jail. I hope you get brought up on Honors charges for every single Honors violation you make and I would absolutely be willing to report you for them. I'd feel no shame, no qualms, and as a matter of fact I absolutely DO think I'm better than you for NOT breaking the law. I'd say it to you now, I'd say it directly to your face. I'm not ashamed, and you can insult my intelligence and my level of education all you want, but it's not going to go away.</p>
<p>I said about 20 times that I specifically referenced that theory because you seemed to have ABSOLUTELY NO IDEA what I was talking about. I was appalled that someone who attends the University of Virginia did not even have a reference point for my frame of mind. Shocked. Even a little disgusted. You can say I just totally don't get it and I'm totally off-base and so totally misguided that you were unable to recognize it, but I find that absolutely absurd. I mentioned it because I thought you could say "oh, ok, so that's where she's coming from" but instead of debating with me what -I- believed you kept hammering in on what other people believe. I said again and again that I PERSONALLY BELIEVE this and I PERSONALLY BELIEVE that and you COULD NOT let it go. I apply the principles of that theory to my life, particularly those principles outlined in Crito. GET OVER IT. You want me to strictly believe X, Y, and Z so that it would make it easier for you to "refute" my belief system and thereby make my judgments against you irrelevant, so you could make yourself feel better. It's not going to work.</p>
<p>I judge you now, and I will continue to judge you, and I'm sure I'm not the only person in your life who will. You're an adult-- Deal with it.</p>
<p>That post was completely uncalled for, pizzelle.</p>
<p>Wow.</p>
<p>Well first, concerning 'intelligence', 'level of education', and such, I would like to point out that you told us to "Read about it" and use 'Cliff Notes or something' and "Do your resarch" because apparently you thought that as UVA Students we were "confused about this concept" since we are ignorant on this issue. I was only returning the favor by showing that there are multiple social contract theories and only one applies to underage drinking laws of the United States (The Founders', which is based on Locke), despite the variety of personal beliefs that go around on the subject. </p>
<p>As for Honor Code violations, as I have said before I am an Honor Counsel, and I have never committed an Honor violation at UVA ever in one year, and I don't plan to in the next 3. As for getting into jail- maybe if I join in on the next round of living wage protests I'll get thrown in there for a night.</p>
<p>cavalier302 - Not at all. I deal with people like him on a regular basis in my life. People who can't stand someone disagreeing with them or their lifestyles, for whatever reason, so they attack and insult their belief systems. I believe what I believe, and I'm used to people trying to have debates about it because they disagree with me. I'm used to being questioned and used to being wrong, actually, because I'm still fairly young. I can respect that in others. Hell, I do the same.</p>
<p>What I will not put up with, however, is someone condescendingly telling me that I'm making things up, that I have poor reading comprehension skills, that I'm ignorant, that my beliefs are somehow shaky and propped up on false information. That's unbelievably intolerant, close-minded, and flat out obnoxious. I respect the beliefs of others while still disagreeing with their behavior. Trust me, it's possible, and I expect the same from others. </p>
<p>This thread went on for 50 some posts without getting too personal, but I'm afraid he took it a little too far.</p>
<p>sv3a - Uhh yeah, and like I made clear about 438 times, I didn't make those allusions to your lack of knowledge on the matter because you disagreed with me...I made those allusions because you acted like I was presenting an entirely alien concept to you. If you had even the slightest understanding of the idea, I assumed that my saying "I believe you have a moral obligation to obey the law due to your attendance/citizenship" would like...ring a bell. Say I don't get the complexities of the theory, fine, whatever, but that SHOULD HAVE rung a bell. That's why I then referenced it. Even from the start I admitted I don't follow it by the letter, as I said that others on the board were free to disobey the law if they felt their civil rights were being violated. And I believe that. THAT contradicts what Plato wrote. You're not telling me anything that I don't know, especially since it would be physically impossible to follow the beliefs of every single proponent of the social contract throughout history. So I follow, as I said, the version of it that I feel applies best to my life. What else should I have said to make you understand? I mean I stated my beliefs and you couldn't accept them, so I tried to help you understand further, and you still couldn't accept them. I didn't know what else to say. You don't accept them, you'll never accept them, WHAT MORE DO YOU WANT? Disagree with me, FINE. Tell me I'm an ice queen, FINE. But when I feel like I have to explain the entire concept to you first, and then you try and jump down my throat because I'm not a fundamentalist pro-social contract Hobbes-obsessed college student is insane.</p>
<p>It is also my complete right to impose my personal beliefs as morally superior to you. What, do you believe in subjective morality or something? So your morality doesn't have to be MY morality? Please. Are you telling me you don't judge people who murder, who rape, who steal, who physically assault, who cheat in elections, who abuse others? Besides, if you're so pro-moral subjectivity, then perhaps my morality dictates that I judge you. So who are you to tell me otherwise?</p>
<p>my morality dictates that this thread is stupid on multiple levels</p>
<p>I respect your beliefs, AND I actually agree with you. </p>
<p>People who say "I know it's not allowed/illegal, but I don't care" just really..........REALLY get on my nerves. It's hard for me to not to get all steamed and vocal about it.</p>
<p>On a positive UVA-related note, I drove up there yesterday and had some Casella's pizza. God that stuff is so delicious it makes me want to vomit.</p>
<p>WRONG. Mellow Mushroom is the best ever.</p>
<p>What the hell is that? The name alone sounds like it's AGAINST THE LAW.</p>
<p>As I have already said, this is not a question of beliefs, but a question of history and context. The manner in which you used the social contract theory to justify the immorality of underage drinking is inconsistent with the founding of the United States and its laws- there is a lot less subjectivity in history for events that clearly happened for specific reasons. Personal beliefs are an aside to this- I even said that for all you know I could share your same personal beliefs.</p>
<p>It's on the corner. Go there and order a pepperoni and bacon calzone. It will change your life.</p>
<p>I am staying out of this discussion, but I will concur with Cavalier302's comment on mentioned restaurant.</p>
<p>Actually cav, did you ever go to Baja Bean? My ex-roommate, your friend, and I went there a week ago for their all-you-can-eat fajita night and it was superior to MM.</p>
<p>I don't need to justify my beliefs to you. I don't need Hobbes or Socrates or Locke to justify my principles. I thought I was helping you to see where I was coming from. I didn't just all of a sudden at the age of 18 wake up one morning and after eating waffles, without any provocation or ideas to go on, decide that U.S. citizens had a moral obligation to follow the laws due to the fact that they share a reciprocal relationship with their society. No, my beliefs come from inspirations as a result of reading texts over the course of my life, as I assume is true for most people. My primary inspiration for that belief is Crito. Yes his other words put that text into question, yes other proponents of this belief added and subtracted from it, yes there is a classical vs. modern aspect to it, but I don't care. They didn't inspire me. Crito did, and still does, it's as simple as that. I've adopted some of the modern concepts, I've rejected some of the concepts whether classical or modern, but I will not pretend that I came up with this stuff all by myself because I DIDN'T.</p>
<p>You responded to me like I was speaking Polish, and as though you were appalled that I could even say such a thing, and I was trying to show you where I was coming from. I tried, I don't think you follow the fact that it's merely a reference point, and that I don't need a philosopher, author, or historian to tell me that what I believe is right.</p>
<p>I DON'T CARE what century this is. I believe that NO MATTER WHAT THE CENTURY, the principles outlined in Crito apply. I DON'T CARE what context this is, I DON'T CARE what the history of the theory is. I DON'T CARE. Let me put this in all caps now, so maybe you'll get it:</p>
<p>I DON'T CARE WHAT HAS HAPPENED SINCE PLATO WROTE CRITO. I DON'T CARE WHAT EVENTS HAVE TRANSPIRED SINCE. I DON'T CARE HOW THE THEORY HAS OTHERWISE BEEN DEVELOPED. I DON'T CARE. THESE ARE MY BELIEFS AND YOU AREN'T GOING TO ARGUE THEM AWAY.</p>
<p>mellow mushroom is good - but it is a chain, and something about chains **** me off. </p>
<p>the best pizza in c-ville imo is christians in the downtown mall. its the closest i've had to pizza at home.</p>