<p>Which school is harder to get accepted to OOS?</p>
<p>Depends. W&M is probably more difficult if you're a female, but possibly easier if you're a male.</p>
<p>huh ?? thats not true.. UVA is way harder to get in than Williamm and Mary..
if you re OOS, and even if you are Instate</p>
<p>O RLY? Cite yr sources or provide some justification for your response.</p>
<p>and how do YOU say that it is harder for a female to get into W&M- provide YOUR source
what i said is generally well-established- uva is ranked higher than William and mary-</p>
<p>and lets not get into the 'my-school-is-better-than-yours" argument,
both schools are good.</p>
<p>Lol. Ok.</p>
<p>Your logic doesn't follow. Yes, UVA is more highly ranked in one publication (USNews) and does have many better departments at the doctoral level. Does that necessarily boost selectivity? No. William and Mary's acceptance rate is slightly lower than UVA's and its average SAT score is slightly higher. Additionally, it's been well-documented that W&M receives a preponderance of applications from females, thus increasing competition for female applicants and giving male applicants a slight boost (due to efforts at achieving a balanced class). Here's an article from the Virginia Gazette discussing the issue: </p>
<p>I'd say W&M overall just because they have less spots and a lower acceptance rate (the lesser spots probably contributes to the lower rate, since about the same number apply to each but less spots at one makes the rate lower simply because they cant admit as many). Also, UVA's legacy policy for OOS students helps a fair number. Also, I agree with Cav: overall, it's easier for men to get accepted to a school like W&M because the school wants a gender balance, and more women will apply to somewhere like W&M (liberal arts school). Somewhere like UVA has less of a gender issue because its programs such as engineering are predominately male, and thus balance out the CLAS a bit.</p>
<p>I think Cav and shoe both make very good points. W&M is more difficult esp if you are female. Yet, it seems that they are more flexible for that candidate whose who has great EC's/essay/recs. UVA seems more numbers focused. prob b/c they have so many more applicants.</p>
<p>I am a male from upstate new york with no legacy. thinking of being an english major. any suggestions? i haven't really don't a lot of research on either of these schools yet..</p>
<p>For an English major, I really don't think it'll matter too much where you go to school, just do well wherever you go. I don't really see a reason for you to be applying to only one or the other, is there any reason you can't apply to both?</p>
<p>Anyways, if you have to pick only one or the other to apply to, there are distinct differences between the two that will help you pick. I only visited each campus once, so this is my Tale of the Tape.</p>
<p>UVA has 13,400 undergrads, W&M has 5,700. To me 5,700 students sounded like a lot, and I didn't think I'd really be able to tell the difference between one or the other. However, soon as you step foot on campus, you can really tell that UVA feels much larger.</p>
<p>UVA has big time sports, W&M doesn't. Not much more to say. If big time sports are important to you, pick UVA.</p>
<p>UVA's campus feels much more integrated into the city, W&M's campus feels like it's cut off and is in it's own sort of bubble.</p>
<p>UVA is located in a small city environment, W&M is located in a tourist town. I'm trying to be objective here, but I have to say that I thought Charlottesville was ugly. However, many people probably would not be too happy about having to live in a (particularly pretty) tourist town for 4 years.</p>
<p>Stuff below is more anecdotal:</p>
<p>There's a stereotype about UVA being a school filled with preps, while W&M is a school filled with dorkier/nerdier kids. After a single visit to both campuses, plus looking at the sort of kids going to each university from my own high school, there is most definitely some merit to this statement. However, it's most definitely not a rule; I'm sure that there UVA has its fair share of quirky kids (mostly in the engineering school, I'd bet), and that W&M has its preppy kids. </p>
<p>UVA has a reputation of being the bigger party and drinking school. </p>
<p>You probably stand a better shot of admission at W&M, being male does help.</p>
<p>Trying to be fairly objective, that's all I can really say. The two schools just feel very different, if you get the opportunity, visit both. I always used to think it was silly when people used to tell me, but visiting a school is the best way to find out which one is right for you. Before I visited both, I was sure I was going to UVA. Then I visited it, and I began to really second guess myself, so I decided that I would visit W&M. After the visit I was hooked on W&M, and I knew that it was where I would be going. So, my advice to you is: VISIT. </p>
<p>I'd also suggest that you apply to both. That way you will have bought some extra time for your decision, and if you end up only being accepted to one or the other, your decision will have been made for you.</p>
<p>I pulled up the data and it is really a dead heat in terms of GPA and SAT. Both are tough. I looked at several different schools data but by the time you average them out it is really splitting hairs. </p>
<p>The word is guys get a slight boost at W&M, but nothing huge. It is my opinion that lots of similarly qualified folks apply to both due to parental pressure to snag that instate tuition rate. All things being equal most folks, but especially guys, prefer UVa. Its a sports thing. Both schools are world class. If it weren't for the D1 thing it would be a total wash. Honestly, both are fabulous schools.</p>
<p>I would've agreed with both Shoebox and Cav (that W&M was tougher to get into than UVa - particularly for a girl) - but here's a real example that disproves that. My son got into UVa, but one of his friends, a girl from OOS here in CA (same high school), got into W&M as a Monroe Scholar (with lots of merit $), but only got waitlisted at UVa. </p>
<p>Her SAT's were higher than his (by 90 pts overall), but her GPA and class rank were slightly - and I mean slightly - lower (same classes, but she had a handful of B's and he had none). Their EC's and recs were strong and very similar. She is also Native American (1/16th, which, as I understand it, is enough to check the box). And she was accepted at Duke, Cornell, and UC Berkeley.</p>
<p>To say we were all surprised at the UVa decision would be an understatement...</p>
<p>The VA state universities are challenging to get into - even for very well qualified ISS. Students have gotten into UVA and not into W&M, and the other way around. Students have been accepted to both but not to James Madison. Go figure... Admissions is very hard to predict; if you're interested in UVA, go ahead and apply. Visit/interview if you have the opportunity. Sit in on a class. It's helpful, also, to read the past cc posts of any school you're considering. Remember that there are many good schools out there. Be sure you have a back-up plan in case you don't get into your first choice school or finances prohibit you from attending.</p>
<p>Anyone who gets into UVA and/or W&M but not JMU or any of the other lower schools in VA is a victim of blatant yield protection.</p>
<p>cganyard, one example disproves nothing. Everyone can pull up anecdotal stuff like that. I know a girl who was rejected at George Mason but accepted at UVA. Does that make Mason more selective than UVA? Of course not. </p>
<p>I'm not trying to say W&M is more selective than UVA or that UVA is more selective than W&M, to me they seem pretty equal. I'm just trying to say that one case proves absolutely nothing about the selectivity of colleges. </p>
<p>And I really don't think it was yield protection on Mason's part, it was UVA being very generous with affirmative action.</p>
<p>
She is also Native American (1/16th, which, as I understand it, is enough to check the box).
</p>
<p>this, also, looks like an affirmative action case, as she checked off the box. I don't think 1/16th is enough to check off the box, I believe you have to be registered with a Native American tribe. I'd think that at the very least you'd have to be more than 1/16th to be able to check off the box.</p>
<p>Datkid,
This girl is 1/16th Native American - her great, great grandmother is 100%, and she told me that was technically enough to check the box. I haven't looked into it myself, but I'll take her word for it. And yes, she is registered with a tribe in Oklahoma (has the papers to prove it) - although I'm not sure which one. And for the record, I was in no way trying to imply that she got into the other schools BECAUSE of her minority status - her record was outstanding without any kind of hook. I was just trying to make the point that even with that outstanding record - and the additional URM status - she still didn't get into UVa from OOS.</p>
<p>But please, don't get me wrong. I would be the last one to use anecdotal evidence to make any kind of blanket statement about college admissions. On the contrary, what I was doing was just the opposite...trying to make the point that the admissions process cannot - and probably should not - be gamed. In my experience, it is not consistent, nor predictable. We on this forum can only guess at the many intangibles the admissions officers see when looking at an application - which means our predictions aren't always correct. I only provided the example above to show exactly that. </p>
<p>I know it's a lot of fun for many of us (myself included) to sit here and predict whether Girl A or Boy B will get into University C. But it would be a shame if some high school senior decided NOT to apply to a school because someone here told him he wouldn't get in. My son was told here last fall that he was a big reach as an OOS student applying to UVA - and he got in. Thank goodness he didn't take the comments here too seriously or, heaven forbid, he'd be a Tarheel now instead of a Cavalier! :)</p>
<p>Anyway, I was not coming down on either side of the UVa/W&M controversy. Both are fabulous schools, and if someone is interested in both, he or she should apply to both. I just wanted to make the point that I repeat on this forum whenever I get the opportunity. When applying to a university, you can't ever know for sure whether you'll get in. But one thing IS for sure - you can't possibly get in if you don't take the chance and apply.</p>
<p>The U.Va. website shows acceptance rates broken out for in-state and OOS, showing OOS acceptance at 32%. Does anyone know the middle 50% SAT scores broken out for U.Va. OOS?</p>
<p>yea they don't release that information.</p>
<p>also, i think you only have to be like 1/64 indian or something stupid like that... but i guess it doesn't matter if you 1/9348028420842084230986 indian as long as you can get tribal affiliation</p>
<p>Good question, gadad! And one many of us have asked repeatedly. But as far as I know, they don't release the breakdown for in-state/OOS scores. </p>
<p>My husband asked the question when he visited UVa with my son and was told by an admissions officer that the OOS SAT average was actually LOWER - I'm guessing due to the recruited athletes in the group. But the admissions officer also followed up by saying that an SAT score would not make or break someone at UVa - as long as he or she was somewhere in the window. The transcript - i.e. grades, rigor of curriculum, and class rank - is far more important. And from what I've seen here, that seems to be true...</p>