UWisc Madison L&S v. UWashington Seattle v. Occidental College

College Search & Selection
1

Hi guys, I’m having trouble selecting between these three schools, and the deadline is approaching.

I am an international student from China. I plan to study International Relations (or PoliSci) in my college years after I submitted my application to UWashington, before that I wanted to major in mechanical (space) engineering (which, by now, I would consider as a second major or minor. I know they are often taught in different departments).

Weather is not my concern.

University of Washington is known for its strength in engineering, and the various opportunities the school provides after we graduate. I entered as a pre-engineering student, and this opportunity really attracts me. But I am not sure if I could study PoliSci (like having one or two courses) in UWashington. So far this is the only concern I have regarding UWSeattle.

The situation I have now regarding University of Wisconsin is that in my idea it is too similar to UWashington. I heard that both its engineering and international relations are very good, but it seemed to be a little remote, and I worry that I would have relatively fewer opportunities (like internships). I was accepted into the School of L&S but will think about working hard for a double major in engineering if UWMadison is my final decision. Also, I don’t know what kind of benefit I would get as an honor program student: what kind of difference will it make to my college years? I would really appreciate some real examples.

Occidental attracts me with its small student number. In my opinion, small colleges might mean that it’s easier to build a closer relationship with professors than in big universities like UWMadison. (I applied for four LACs but only got one offer…) But Occidental seemed to be relatively expensive than the other two options, particularly giving that it’s in California. I am also worried that I would have a harsh time going out since I won’t acquire driver license in China, and my parents seemed to be very determined that I will need to pay for my own car if I want to have one.

Feel free to correct me if I am wrong about something. I want to hear more about these three schools, and I really hope someone could tell me more about the differences between UWashington and UWisconsin.

Many thanks!

2

Your main concern is that getting into an engineering major is difficult and competitive at Washington.
https://www.engr.washington.edu/current/admissions/admitstats
Taking a few political science courses should not be much of an issue in comparison.

Changing into an engineering major at Wisconsin is competitive admission:
https://www.engr.wisc.edu/academics/student-services/academic-advising/cross-campus-students/
Also, Wisconsin engineering majors are oversubscribed, so they use high GPA progression requirements to weed out some of the students:
https://www.engr.wisc.edu/academics/student-services/academic-advising/first-year-undergraduate-students/progression-requirements/

3

Both Washington and Wisconsin are superb universities, and a student will have many opportunities at both. A general matter to consider – at least at Wisconsin, which we know well, a double “major” in Political Science or International relations and Engineering would actually require completing requirements for two Colleges within the University, College of Letters & Science for Poli Sci/IR and College of Engineering.

I suggest going to the University of Wisconsin (and the University of Washington) board, under “Colleges and Universities,” to research the opportunities more specifically. As for Honors at Wisconsin, my own student is completing the Honors in the Liberal Arts program and has enjoyed the opportunities to work closely with professors. I have written at length on the Wisconsin board about Honors, so if you search for either my past replies, or for the key word Honors, you will turn up a lot of posts about Honors at Wisconsin. As for being remote, Madison is not a metro area like Seattle, but is the capital of Wisconsin, with a wealth of government internships. It is about 2 hours from Chicago O’Hare, with coach buses going to Ohare and Midway throughout the day.

4

I’ll chime in as a fan of LACs and not a fan of UW Madison.

Madison is a very good school, don’t get me wrong, but it is large and you do have a legitimate concern about large anonymous classes. It is in the middle of nowhere. I’ve spent a lot of time in Madison–years and years. And it has a cute shopping strip near the campus, but it’s cold, really cold, and hard to get to. You need to fly to Chicago and take a 90-120 minute bus one way to Madison. Or fly to Milwaukee and take a bus. If you attempt to fly directly into the Madison airport, on several occasions my plane has been delayed and delayed and delayed. Sometimes I’ve had to spend the night there; once after an all-night there they gave me a taxi voucher to the Milwaukee airport just to get me out. Definitely research the Honors angle of things. That may allow you access to professors and it may allow you opportunity to register for usually oversubscribed classes, so that you can graduate on time. Only 56% of students at Madison graduate in four years. You should probably count an extra year of study and of expense if you opt for Madison. Honors may allow you priority registration, and may save you that extra year of classes as a result. http://www.collegedata.com/cs/data/college/college_pg01_tmpl.jhtml?schoolId=1703 One big reason why big state schools have lousy grad rates is because their classes are too full. You can’t get the classes you need to graduate.

Also the governor of Wisconsin has mercilessly cut the budget of Madison and the UW system. (and used the money to build a sports stadium for a professional team). Classes will only get bigger and the grad rate lower as a result. Also many of the professors who could leave did leave because the governor got rid of tenure except in name only. The profs can be fired at will by a political (not an academic) board appointed by the governor.

UWashington Honors program (the last time I looked–so please check) does NOT allow priority registration. I’m really not sure why they bother with an honors program . . . . maybe someone else can fill me in. What advantage is there for the student? 63% four-year graduation rate. if you;'re totally psyched about this school, then go for it. But you’d need to figure out a clear reason to attend this or Madison before going. Luke Warm Fuzzies just won’t do in terms of costs vs advantages. http://www.collegedata.com/cs/data/college/college_pg01_tmpl.jhtml?schoolId=764

Occidental has an 83% four-year grad rate. And it has small classes and you would definitely get to know your professors. Check elsewhere on this site for car info there. Probably because it’s in LA you would need a car, or at least it would make things more fun. Telling your parents that they are saving a full year of tuition at the other schools, may help them spring for one.

There maybe other transportation available on campus. The campus is aware that it’s in LA and probably has found some solutions that may help you through. Here is info on the Oxy transportation – http://www.oxy.edu/life-oxy/sustainability/transportation

5

Oxy is a great school. I don’t have a car but there’s plenty of stuff to do - they bring in speakers, music, etc. There’s also a free shuttle service to anywhere in a 7 mile radius and free trips to LA landmarks on the weekends.

6

How would Oxy work for engineering? It has a 3-2 program, which at many schools, are programs which have a fairly low completion rate. The OP should research how many students actually complete the program, how it works with double majors in the liberal arts etc.

7

As a practical matter, the OP’s chance of being able to do engineering at any of these three schools is not great, since both UWs require competitive admission to get into oversubscribed engineering majors, while Occidental only offers engineering majors in 3+2 programs.

8

The boards are full of 3-2 doubts and condemnation.

The two UWs are outstanding in Engineering and a lot of other things. Since you are international, you will want your degree to be recognized. Oxy is very good, but it does not have anywhere near the international name recognition that Wisconsin and Washington enjoy.

I am a UW-Madison alumnus – fair warning. I’m not sure how a city of 250,000 can be in the middle of nowhere, especially given that it’s 2 hours from Chicago, 90 minutes from Milwaukee, and 4 hours from the Twin Cities.

There is little evidence that budget cuts have actually diminished the level of academic quality. The university has had to tighten its belt, but the last thing they would do is sell the bell cow. There is no mass exodus of faculty.

But lots of schools do a good job of teaching. What makes UW-Madison great is the awesome social/party atmosphere, the visual and practical variety and beauty of the campus, the first-class sports scene and school spirit, and the fact that there are both outdoor and city opportunities on the same campus: shopping in multiple places, big lakes and the fun that comes with them, the awesome state capital building, Union and Union Terrace, and the greatness of State Street which ties the capital building to Library Mall and Bascom Hill.

I’ve been to a lot of athletic competitions, and nothing else compares to a Wisconsin Badgers game at Camp Randall Stadium. When you are in that student section you absolutely have a ball, from Jump Around to Buttercup to the section rivalries, to the keys, to the great band and dancing and singing during the Fifth Quarter. Madison is a place great for both its world-renowned academics and variety of cool views and experiences.

If you want to get a great education and have a lot of fun, there’s no better place than UW-Madison.

I imagine there are a lot of cool things about Washington too, though there’s a lot more rain there. :wink: