Virginia Tech Aid package for out of State

Paying for College
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<p>If “a job pays what it pays”, then you don’t adjust pay based on school, you adjust who you hire. If you have a $60K position for a mechanical engineer just out of school, you get an average hire from Penn State, a top candidate from Milwaukee School of Engineering, or a lesser candidate from Texas. You probably don’t get any MIT candidates at all.</p>

<p>People paying $74K get the MIT MEs. I don’t see how this could be any more obvious.</p>

<p>Mid-career, people changing jobs expect to be paid more than they are already making, so they self-select to the high-paying jobs once again. You don’t have to figure the school into it, the alums work it out for you. I don’t see how this could be any more obvious either.</p>

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<p>You need to not just look at raw statistics but understand the variables contained within. </p>

<p>But you’re right Bob, those of us in the industry and that have done hiring for 25+ years stand corrected.</p>

<p>Best of luck. I’m done with this thread.</p>

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<p>“I’m done with this thread.”</p>

<p>Me too. </p>

<p>A lifetime of living within a family within the high-tech industry (and working within it myself) has assured me that school name really doesn’t matter in virtually all cases.</p>

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<p>Umm, Bob. Apparently MIT mechanical engineering grads do take jobs that pay $60k according to the data you posted. That $74k average salary was calculated from salaries submitted by 44 grads whose salaries ranged from $31K to $140k</p>

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<p>So how do you explain the range of starting salaries that exist if every engineering job pays exactly the same? Tell me why Texas has higher average starting salaries? How is it even possible in your model where every engineering job pays exactly the same?</p>

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<p>I’m with BobWallace on the salary thing. I’m a 50-something electrical engineer and a senior person in my department (a major semiconductor manufacturer). Over my career I’ve performed every part of the hiring process, from simply being one of the interviewers to being the one making the final hiring decision, with several semi suppliers. Pay has NEVER been a pre-defined thing for an engineering position. Perhaps for a secretary or tech, but NEVER for an engineer… be it an entry level position or not.</p>

<p>It is exactly as BobWallace wrote:
“…starting pay varies over a wide range based on the quality of the candidates, and the school is one of the factors that goes into that.”</p>

<p>IMHO, any company not willing to adjust salary (upward or downward) depending on the quality of the candidate probably has a dysfunctional design department. They probably lost their good candidates and pay too much to the ones they hired.</p>

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<p>Maikai…certainly adjustments can be made in salaries to get the right person for the job…and that should be the case. BUT not solely on the basis of where you got your engineering degree. Do you really look at that? Or do you look at the qualifications of the candidates?</p>

<p>Bob…listen again! No one said all jobs pay the same. What we DID say was for a specific job, the place where you got your degree will not garner you a higher salary. In other words, if my husband interviews someone for Job A…the new employee will be paid the same rate of pay regardless of where he got his degree.</p>

<p>NOW if someone from Arkansas has an opening in their engineering firm for similar work, it is mighty possible that THEIR pay allotted for the same type of job will be much less. </p>

<p>I know you don’t think cost of living has an impact but to be competitive in CT where I live, firms need to offer competitive salaries. The salaries in areas with lower costs of living tend to be lower. We know this because we have looked at relocating from time to time. If we move to a less expensive COL area, the salaries are lower for the same kind of work.</p>

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<p>I’ve met some MIT grads and many of them have some things going for them that are above and beyond an engineering degree. It’s not hard to see how they got into a school with a single digit accept rate, and I would expect that they would snare the higher paid jobs. I daresay, a number of them would the ones getting the top pay jobs regardless of where they went to school. It was not just that they went to MIT that make them the sterling brains that they are. However, add to that the extra opportunities one does get from graduating from a name school like MIT, and also the fact that there are quite a few MIT grads that come from families where there are some plans already there for those grad, and it’s no surprise at all to see those averages.</p>

<p>There was a study, regarding the success of those who went to the state schools, less selective school, but who had the stats and profiles to get into the the most selective ones but either did not pursue that choice or turned it down. Though there is no question that those who graduate from, say ivy league schools, will be getting the higher salaries, much as your data shows for the MIT grads, when one looks at those individuals who coulda gone, they do just as well.</p>

<p>Anecdotally, it seems to run the same way. A case in point is a woman who is a dear friend of mine and her son a good friend of my kids. She turned down acceptance to a couple of highly selective schools because she was offered a free ride to a local college that included a masters degree if she chose. Because of a love interest at the time, in addition to the freebie, she chose to stay home, a decision she does regret as she never has left the area, But she is one powerhouse person with a job that many from the most select colleges would and did vye to get. Just went to an honorarium for a friend’s niece who is the ONLY Rhodes scholar that a little local college has had. Sure didn’t hurt that woman going there, and it 's no surprise that she is in a top drawer type position making money that many ivy grads would drool over. </p>

<p>And going to these top schools does not guarantee you the mid range salary figure either. Those are averages, and may even be pulled upward by those who have access to some truly high paying jobs due to truly special talents and connections who are more likely to be in these highly selective school The one who graduates by the skin of teeth, who has little personalty, no contacts, no family help and some BO to boot, is going to have a tough go getting that first job, MIT degree in engineering or not.</p>

<p>Plus, what I am saying is that for those first jobs, in particular, I don’t know anyone who is going to assign different dollar figures based on the school of the graduate. Not saying it isn’t ever done, crazy things done in this world, but it isn’t done as a rule.</p>

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<p>OK, Connecticut. </p>

<p>Average starting salary for ME graduates from UConn: $58K
[DEPARTMENT</a> OF MECHANICAL ENGINEERING, SCHOOL OF ENGINEERING AT THE UNIVERSITY OF CONNECTICUT](<a href=“http://www.engr.uconn.edu/me/cms/undergraduate/prospectivestudents]DEPARTMENT”>http://www.engr.uconn.edu/me/cms/undergraduate/prospectivestudents)</p>

<p>So if cost of living is the big factor, why don’t UConn MEs make the big salaries of MIT and CalTech MEs?</p>

<p>And nobody said anything about college being “solely” responsible for anything - I said it is a factor.</p>

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<p>I know I said that I’m done with this thread, but I have to respond to the obvious…</p>

<p>So how do you explain the range of starting salaries that exist if every engineering job pays exactly the same</p>

<p>every eng’g job doesn’t pay the same starting wage. We’re talking within a company, that is in a particular city. </p>

<p>So, Company A, that has a division in City X, will start their eng’rs at the same rate </p>

<p>However, Company A, that also has a division in City Y, may start their eng’rs at a higher, but SAME, rate. The rate is often set by Cost of Living in the area, but also what other bennies the I know I said that I’m done with this thread, but I have to respond to the obvious…</p>

<p>And, Company B, that has an office in City Z may start their eng’rs at the same-but-even-higher rate because it’s in a super pricey area. </p>

<p>So how do you explain the range of starting salaries that exist if every engineering job pays exactly the same</p>

<p>every eng’g job doesn’t pay the same starting wage. We’re talking within a company, that is a particular area. </p>

<p>So, Company A, that has a division in City X, will start their eng’rs at the same rate </p>

<p>However, Company A, that also has a division in pricey City Y, may start all of its new eng’rs at a same-but-higher rate because the Cost of Living is much higher. So, Company A that has a division in a pricey Tri-state area will pay more than its division in cheaper Midwest county. </p>

<p>Companies within the same city/county are competing for the same employees so usually their salaries don’t vary a whole lot for new hires. Exceptions can include companies that pay less because they don’t require US citizenship or may pay more because they don’t offer pricey bennies (such as paid retirement, better insurance, better matching 401k, etc).</p>

<p>If you’re a graduating senior with offers from different cities, you have to “do the math” to really see if the “highest offer” really is the best offer. If you’ll be paying $2k per month for a tiny apartment, then maybe the lesser salary is better because in that location your rent will only be $750 for a nice luxury-style complex.</p>

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<p>I already addressed Cost of Living - it doesn’t explain the differences. Otherwise UConn and Stevens graduates in high cost areas would be getting the same big salaries as MIT and CalTech graduates in high cost areas.</p>

<p>There are high paying engineering jobs and low paying engineering jobs. This is obvious from the salary stats posted. </p>

<p>Who gets the highest paying jobs? The best candidates. A larger share of the best candidates come from the best schools. You can still get a high paying job coming from a mediocre school, but not many from the school will.</p>

<p>If you offer a job at a fixed salary, you will get a set a candidates of quality matched to that level of pay. How hard is that to understand?</p>

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<p>Bobwallace, my DH works in a company laden with top graduates. Yes, there is an income range for each position that opens, but when there is an entry level position that is likely to be filled by someone newly graduated from college, I can assure you that the college makes absolutely no difference in what the pay is going to be. The ranges are even narrower for engineering type jobs. There are a number of reasons why those who graduate from the most selective and well known schools willl have higher average pay, and I’ve gone into that in some detail,but it’s not because when a position opens for a new graduate, a company is going to pay more for the MIT guy straight out of school over the Connecticut grad. There would have to be special skills and experience involved tin order for that pay adjustment to be made. That MIT may give more opportunities for their students to gain those skiils, is possible. That the MIT grad will be more likely to snag the higher paying jobs, is something I would expect. Tha given a room of MIT grads, and XYZ Uni grads, that the MIT ones as a whole are a more impressive group in terms of special skills, knowing the material better, better ideas and quicker synapses, I would hope so. But would every single MIT grad be better than every single XYZ grade. Absolutely not. There would be some at XYZ with the brain power, innovative thinking that would match the top MIT grads and there will be some losers in the MIT crowd too, including the guy who might have the brain power but picks his nose and eats it. (happened, i’m not making this up)</p>

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<p>Exactly what I’ve been saying.</p>

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<p>But it is not necessarily because he went to MIT. Someone who did not go to MIT but as prepared and innovative and able to nail that interview and show he’s the best one for the job, could also get that job. The MIT grad went through a preselection process of single digit acceptance rates to get into that school. Someone who might have been a pick but went to UConn instead, iis likely to have the package that the MIT grads have. It’s not all the school, you know. IF you manage to get an oaf, somehow in MIT, it isn’t going to magically make him/her into the midrange MIT grad.</p>

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<p>Even if the MIT or Cal Tech grads are handled differently in a few cases, that’s not really the point. The OP’s child isn’t considering either one of those schools. </p>

<p>When looking over the schools on the OP’s D’s list, none of those schools are going to result in a higher paying job just because she went to School X. Even a slightly higher salary isn’t going to justify paying $40k - 80k more for the undergrad education UNLESS it can easily be spent with little to no debt. </p>

<p>When discussions about eng’g schools come up, only rarely is the topic, “MIT vs local state school”. Usually the topic is something like, “Purdue vs RPI” or "OOS UMich vs “My Flagship” or “Cornell vs UFlorida”. None of those schools are going to warrant getting paid more.</p>

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<p>I agree with Mom2collegekids. The OP’s DD has a list of school that are probably comparable in terms of opportunities. If one seems to fit some of what the DD has in mind more, in terms of environment, that is what should be the reason for the choice, not that the average pay from that school is $2K a year more. </p>

<p>How comfortable one is with the school, department and the other students there are important factors. Also the attrition rate. What % of those who come in as engineering majors end up graduating as the same? Engineering as a field of study is notorious for driving out students who start out in that discipline. </p>

<p>We’ve gotten off track from OP’s concerns. Wonder if his DD has come to any decision on the schools. It’s time for the envelopes for them all to be in hand.</p>

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<p>If that were so, the job description would include the wages for the job. But they never do. And when you ask what the job pays, they ask you what your salary requirements are. And it’s a big game with the employee trying to ask for the most they can without getting laughed out the door, and with the employer trying to snag the best employees they can for as little as they can get away with.</p>

<p>It’s not “oh you went to MIT, we’ll add $20K to your starting salary” but maybe having gone to MIT is part of what makes them want you enough to be willing to negotiate a higher starting salary than they might pay some of their other starting engineers. </p>

<p>ALSO if you ever plan to freelance or do consulting, having a school with big-time name recognition like MIT on your resume goes a long way in helping you land freelance or consulting projects.</p>

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<p>Well let’s see what ol’ Bob Wallace said back in post number 21:</p>

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<p>Well, I agree with ol’ BobWallace there .</p>

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<p>You guys who say where the degree comes from doesn’t matter, all else being the same, are simply wrong. </p>

<p>BobWallace started this by saying:
“…starting pay varies over a wide range based on the quality of the candidates, and the school is one of the factors that goes into that.”</p>

<p>Read that again people. Nobody said where you got your degree makes ALL the difference. It just makes up one data point in the evaluation of a candidate.</p>

<p>Let’s get ridiculous to illustrate the example…
All things appearing equal, I’m not going to offer the same salary to a Cornell graduate and a regional college graduate. Sure, they may have had the same GPA, but my assumption is the Cornell education was more complete.</p>

<p>And it’s not a ranking thing. Those of us in larger corporations have some experience with grads from certain schools. Some schools create a local reputation for creating good engineers… ready to contribute from the start. Graduates from those recognized schools, when compared to graduates from equally ranked schools, will get a higher offer.</p>

<p>So there could be a significant difference in offers between schools that you would think are equal. Using a comparison already given in this thread…
In the MetroNY area, a graduate of RPI would probably get a better offer than a graduate from Purdue. It’s because the local companies have more experience, therefore more faith, in RPI creating a good candidate. </p>

<p>Sorry to burst your bubbles, but that’s the way it is in the industry. </p>

<p>I’m surprised we’re even having this conversation. It’s absurd to think where you got your degree doesn’t matter. Of course it matters. It’s not everything, but it certainly matters.</p>

<p>If you want to work in Boston, your best shot is to go to WPI or Northeastern or one of those. If you want to work in NYC, your best bet is NYU-Poly or Stevens, or Rutgers or one of those.</p>

<p>So now we’re down to small sub groups of schools. Yeah… you only have a point if someone is hiring for an engineering job in Boston and their choice is two seemingly identical graduates, one from WPI and the other from Northeastern. In that narrow circumstance, yeah, the offers might be identical. :-&lt;/p>