<p>I would assume that he has a lot of things to take care of for the week and that it might take him a little time to write things up if and when he feels so inclined.</p>
<p>There's no such thing as "harsh and punitive" in drug testing. </p>
<p>If you know your school has a zero-tolerance drug policy, and you know they sometimes do random drug testing, then don't do drugs if you don't want to get caught doing drugs....</p>
<p>Unfortunately you are not in a very strong position to negotiate the "fairness" of random drug testing as someone who is proof that random drug testing is necessary. </p>
<p>My suggestion: Go in there and cry. Their is nothing more sad than a mother crying for her child. Otherwise, you just have to take your medicine and move on from there.</p>
<p>sunnyflorida - thanks for asking. I made an update to the other thread reporting the outcome. Maybe I shouldn't have broken out two threads, but I did want to try to isolate the college implications from the other 27 or so issues.</p>
<p>It didn't go well, and to say we're devastated is an understatement. I thought I was prepared for anything, but the fact that every single one of our fears has been borne out today is very hard to take.</p>
<p>As my wife said, it's a nightmare situation. We can yell and scream and complain about the timing of the testing etc etc but the school had a very clearly written policy, my D had a previous violation and was well aware of the risks. She had lost all EC leadership positions in the previous violation (it was a massive emotional blow, we thought) and despite our repeated warnings to steer well clear of ANY incident that might engander graduation, she could not or would not do that. </p>
<p>Keeping this thread on track, our very worst fear was that her transcript would indicate the event, and apparently it will. At this point we were not sure that we would let her go off this fall, but now we're wondering if the carefully targeted school/merit aid package will stand up. And what all that will mean.</p>
<p>She's a great kid, and we are deeply concerned about how to sort through the wreckage over the next few months. That will have to occupy our thinking now.</p>
<p>I think it's time to bring out the lawyer.</p>
<p>I agree about the lawyer. You need to find out everything and make the best arrangement for protecting your daughter's options.</p>
<p>Don’t necessarily agree about ‘bring out the lawyer’ myself:</p>
<ol>
<li> The school is supposed to lie if asked to report any suspensions, expulsions, or whatever? So when the college finds out the high school lied and doesn’t take any more students from that school, this is a good thing?</li>
<li> How many of you would be happy to find out that your daughter’s new roommate or suitemate was expelled for drug use but is rooming with your daughter because her high school lied about the expulsion or had its hands tied by legal action?</li>
<li> It is possible the college will find out about the expulsion from a third party. Any peer or parent not on best terms with OP’s daughter could make a phone call. They all know where she expects to attend next fall.</li>
</ol>
<p>I feel for BayAreaDad, his daughter and family. The is very possibly a lost opportunity. The consequences of her actions will and are affecting not only her, but also the emotional and financial well being of her family. But putting the morals of expecting the school to lie about the situation aside, I don’t know that any action will protect that scholarship at this point. I know we appreciated the update from him, knowing today was a big day, but I have to think BayAreaDad should be very careful about giving out any more information about this situation on this forum.</p>
<p>^^^
[quote]
3. It is possible the college will find out about the expulsion from a third party. Any peer or parent not on best terms with OPs daughter could make a phone call. They all know where she expects to attend next fall.
[/quote]
Excellent point. Any kid with a grudge, or simply a busybody, could contact the college and fill it in on this development. The prep school may be particularly inclined to be proactive in communicating with the college because of this consideration. The prep school wants first of all to maintain its reputation with the colleges to which it feeds students. It will want to be in control of the release of this information, yet it knows there is a risk any student at the school may make that call.
Your D* may* be best served by coming clean with the college before it hears of this from another source. Also, at least then she won't have the wondering about the college's reaction (should/when it learns about this) hanging over her longer.</p>
<p>I can see the point about both the a) morality and b) pragmatics of being proactive in contacting the college.</p>
<p>It's a dilemna for us. First, we as parents cannot allow our D to go into a college environment, knowing what we know now. She'll have to come to grips with the problem, before I will underwrite a penny of college tuition. That will probably take longer than a summer, so at this point I believe a deferral is likely. </p>
<p>But, assuming that we as a family feel that we have entirely dealt with this issue in our own terms, is it the business of the college? </p>
<p>Is every family whose child has some type of behavioral issue (let's just call it that, for the sake of discussion), required to share such information with a college, assuming they have faced it and, in their opinion, fully dealt with it?</p>
<p>I realize that cd (chemical dependency) if that's what this is, may be a special case just because it is one of the most serious problems on college campuses.</p>
<p>Just thinking out loud. Thoughtful considerations invited.</p>
<p>Regardless of whether she defers a year, won't her transcript have that notation and, therefore, the issue will have to be addressed anyway? Or do you defer, have her in treatment in that year and then the thought is that the senior-year issue is now a non-issue?</p>
<p>Of course it's the business of colleges to know about their students. Parents have sued because students died while drunk; parents have sued over their student's death from drug use. Students with emotional disabilities have killed other students. If they didn't try to learn these things, they would be irresponsible.</p>
<p>I understand that losing a scholarship--if that happens--is a very hard thing and will change your daughter's life. But that is a consequence of drug use, and not an entirely unpredictable one.</p>
<p>These are very complicated issues. One question I have is whether her previous alcohol violations resulted in a suspension that had to be reported to the colleges on the applications. If not, you only have to deal with this one incident right at the end of senior year. As others have said, many colleges will be tolerant of something like this. If it results in a real hit to the transcript grade-wise, that could be another problem to overcome. A deferral year with some courses at a local college could fix that, too.</p>
<p>The question of treatment and counseling is a tough one. The first assessment is whether it is a true CD problem. My uneducated guess is that it is not. I suspect it is a situation of stupidity, following the crowd, trying to get the "edge" and seeing nothing wrong with the behavior. These are, in many ways, more complicated things to "treat". One very talented therapist our family worked with used to say to the kid "how's that working out for you?" Other tactics used for my particular kid were, "If you do that, will you get kicked off the team?" You have to find what is valuable to the kid and somehow get across that their behaviors could result in it being lost. In this case, the girl DID lose it! She lost her school, her community, her graduation and possibly her immediate educational future due to her choices. It's a tough lesson, but, unfortunately, with these types of personalities (very intelligent young people who can manage to justify just about any behavior) the next thing down the road may require yet another tough lesson. The kid may not use drugs again at school, but he or she might drink and drive!<br>
Sometimes we, as parents, have to bank on some sort of maturity kicking in while we try to protect the kid from himself. Others say this is "enabling" or "not allowing consequences". That may be, but it goes back to the breaking your neck or your arm thing. I did a lot of bailing and protecting, while still making sure there were consequences. As a result, I believe my kid is where he needs to be at age 21 and he is doing well there. If I had not done some of the things I (and husband) did, not sure he would be in the same place.</p>
<p>In reponse to the question about whether the school must report violoations, this is the last paragraph from the Common Application Final Report to be filled out by the student's Guidance Couselor. If the university in question doesn't use the Common App, maybe there is no Final Report. Increasingly, however, colleges are using the Common App, and the report is part of the process. I have facilited some Junior High info sessions about applying to college and wave this form around frequently to emphasize a major consequence of "mistakes" made as early as 9th grade. According to the GC, many stellar students have to check the "yes" box. </p>
<p>����Has the applicant ever been found responsible for a disciplinary violation at your school from 9th grade (or the international equivalent) forward, whether related to academic misconduct or behavioral misconduct, that resulted in the applicant’s probation, suspension, removal, dismissal, or expulsion from your institution? �� Yes �� No</p>
<p>����To your knowledge, has the applicant ever been convicted of a misdemeanor, felony, or other crime? �� Yes �� No</p>
<p>If you answered yes to either or both questions, please attach a separate sheet of paper or use your written recommendation to give the approximate date of each incident and explain the circumstances.</p>
<p>����Check here if you would prefer to discuss this over the phone with each admission office.</p>
<p>I recommend this student: �� No basis �� With reservation �� Fairly strongly �� Strongly �� Enthusiastically</p>
<p>Another thing that complicates the situation is that the girl was at a boarding school. If she'd done the same thing while attending a day school, then she would not have taken the medicine/drug at school. She would have taken it at home, or at a friend's house, and the school would have had no reason to suspect that she'd used it. There would have been no question of losing the important senior-year ceremonies, no question of a report to the college. Of course it is better that the parents know, so that the issue can be dealt with, but some of the consequences seem to be directly tied to the fact that she is at a boarding school. </p>
<p>I did not realize that schools were required to report these kinds of things to colleges. I'm not talking about lying, just not providing the information. But my older son is only in 9th grade, so there's a lot I don't know about HS/college relationships.</p>
<p>Cross-posted with riverrunner; that answers my question. I had no idea.</p>
<p>As the parent of one who had to "check the box", I had lots of discussions with college counselors, admissions folks and coaches. Basically, most of the elite colleges recognize that there is little room for error for kids growing up these days, and these kinds of things are NOT deal-breakers at all. There are a few very strict admissions deans, but not many. What is more important than "checking the box" is how the student explains what happened and how he or she bounced back and learned from the event. Believe it or not, I think the whole thing turned out to be a "plus" for my kid. A college could look at him and see that he had bounced back beautifully and it actually differentiated him from other candidates in a way that seemed to be a positive. There is also an understanding that it is much easier to screw up at boarding school, followed by private day schools than it is at public school. The reins are simply much tighter.</p>
<p>^^Thanks MOWC. I was hoping someone with experience would point out the huge opportunity this form provides for a GC to talk about lessons learned, better choices, and maturity gained from a mistake. So much in life depends on what one does in the days, months and years AFTER the bad thing happens.</p>
<p>BayareaDad, My heart aches for you. I will share my own family story. My oldest stepson had a drug problem. He started at 14 when his parents were going through a divorce. He was very popular and is very smart. He moved in with us for a while to be in a new school, but left because we were very strict on his coming and goings. We were trying to do everything we could to keep him on the straight and narrow. He left and moved back in with his mother at 16 and without us knowing she signed for him to quit school!!! He spiraled down for two years. We had little contact with him, but did leave him messages that if he ever wanted help, that we were here. At 19 he was ready to get help and he turned his life around. He went back to school and two weeks ago he received his Masters Degree in Education. He has been speaking to kids at risk for the past year, and he is making an amazing difference. I tell the story because you asked for "thoughtful" words. So here they are. DO NOT send her to school until she has dealt with her CD problems, the stress, and the college culture will not be healthy for her now. She is going to have to come to grips with her actions, and although the natural series of consequences will be painful now, they will teach her something you can't. She is a smart girl and she is so young, don't lose hope in her future. Its important for you to be there in a loving, firm way. Best of luck, I'll keep you in my prayers!</p>
<p>Once the family has worked out how to evaluate and treat the problem and has a sense of whether long term t'ment with a gap year is or is not necessary (and for all we know, this may turn out to be a kid who sometimes uses spectacularly bad judgement when partying, but whose central issue is not substance abuse or addiction), it might make sense to talk with a reputable private college counselor who has experience with kids in this type situation, and might even know -- or be able to find out easily -- how the college BADad's D was planning to attend looks upon late senior year substance incidents.</p>
<p>One would hope that D's (former) school would be helpful, but given the decision to drug test at the moment when they could be least therapeutically helpful and do the most damage in terms of D's academic future, this is probably not realistic. </p>
<p>Heart goes out to you, BADad. If every CC parent of a child who has consumed liquor, or tried pot, or even taken another child's prescription pill during high school would sign on here, this would be a very, very long thread indeed.</p>
<p>"But, assuming that we as a family feel that we have entirely dealt with this issue in our own terms, is it the business of the college? "</p>
<p>It becomes their business if they are going to give her money to attend. Disciplinary questions were on the application and schools generally expect to be notified of such important news on behalf of an accepted student. The best thing to do is to get out in front of it. The college will find out in some fashion, it's best that it come from her. I think InterestedDad is right in saying that if she is proactive, the outcome will likely be fine.</p>
<p>"That may be, but it goes back to the breaking your neck or your arm thing. I did a lot of bailing and protecting, while still making sure there were consequences. "</p>
<p>I lost a sister indirectly because of substance abuse (long story), but the bottom line for me is that if this isn't fixed, the next thing could be the last thing. Since my family has been there and done that, I'm sad to say that it does happen. Better she is alive and unhappy.</p>