"Voluntary" withdrawal from HS under duress

Parents Forum
61

<p>BA Dad- my heart goes out to you and your family. I hope with each day, the hurt lessens.</p>

<p>things seem very bleak for you right now- but with time and courage, I'm sure your family will follow the right path. Your d's actions is similar to so many other kids. Stupid choices- bad decisions. But at this stage, it's still possible that her behavior doesn't mean she has a CD or addictive personality.</p>

<p>I know, your family is taking the right course of action and all info about your kids true condition will be better understood in time.
Much of your situation was complicated as your kid attended a boarding school. Not that this is going to make you feel better, but so many other kids have had similar situations but didn't have such a disasterous outcome.<br>
Yes, your d may have CD problems, but do not jump to that conclusion based on harsh rules of the school-
yes, I can understand why these schools have such rules due to a very high usage of drug and alcohol in teens. But I just want you to feel that your d's behavior may not be so different than the average HS kid of today.</p>

<p>And some of the parents on these boards who think otherwise are just fooling themselves.
Good luck to you.</p>

62

<p>"One would hope that D's (former) school would be helpful, but given the decision to drug test at the moment when they could be least therapeutically helpful and do the most damage in terms of D's academic future, this is probably not realistic. "</p>

<p>Actually, if the girl has an addictions problem, drug testing when the school did was a good decision and could be very much in her own interest. When people with substance abuse problems decide to get help it's almost universally because they are feeling some kind of pain such as the loss of a job or some other desired opportunity.</p>

<p>If the student has a drug problem, now may be the last good chance her family has to address it because this may be her last summer living at home.</p>

63

<p>^^ I think everyone agrees that the first step is to figure out the extent of the chemical dependency- if any. As Nester pointed out, this could be a case of spectacularly bad judgment. With everything that we went through with our son, there was never CD, and, believe me, every stone was overturned!</p>

64

<p>By Nester:
"Heart goes out to you, BADad. If every CC parent of a child who has consumed liquor, or tried pot, or even taken another child's prescription pill during high school would sign on here, this would be a very, very long thread indeed."</p>

<p>Hear, hear, Nester, a voice of reason and reality. While some on here are quick to support the imposition of draconian measures against the OP's D and label her a "drug addict," I think that the reality might be quite different. As I recall, the first infraction involved alcohol (who among us did not have a drink when we were underage) and this most recent one involves the use of a stimulant to help the child "perform" better during finals. Although I am not condoning the use of the stimulant, it appears not to have been used to obtain a "recreational" high. This does not sound like a person with a CD problem; rather, a judgment problem. It doesn't seem like she is running around getting wasted all the time to me at all. </p>

<p>Keeping her at home is not going to prevent her from doing drugs if she indeed does have a CD problem. There are tons of high school kids who regularly do drugs right under their parents' noses without the parents suspecting a thing. </p>

<p>To allay concerns about the possibility that she may have a CD problem, I would propose the following. Send her off to college in the Fall, with the understanding that your financial support is contingent upon her consenting to weekly drug testing.</p>

<p>I also extend my sympathy and best wishes to the OP and his family. I just think that too many people are jumping to conclusions that may not be warranted.</p>

<p>P.S. Marny1 beat me to the punch.</p>

65

<p>BayAreaDad</p>

<p>I’m so sorry for what you and your family are going through right now.</p>

<p>Please consider writing that letter to the college IMMEDIATELY. Your daughter’s letter should describe the facts, admit that she has used poor judgment, and outline a future plan of action which could (but doesn’t necessarily have to) include counseling and deferral until next year. The temptation to excuse her behavior should be resisted. If possible, I would share this letter with the counselor/administration at her boarding school. Letters of explanation can vary in tone, and a supportive letter from the school on her behalf could smooth any future interaction with her future university.</p>

<p>As awful as it is, her school is forced to ask for her withdrawal and obligated to report her expulsion to her college. To give her a pass after a second infraction would be tantamount to advertising to all current and future students (and parents) that its rules are meaningless. Not to report to her college would jeopardize its reputation within the community and its relationship with her university. It is not easy to deal with, but the school’s actions are indicated. People do talk, and it is likely that the college would ultimately find out, particularly if others from her school attend this university.</p>

<p>I don’t know whether you inquired, but if it were my daughter, I would be very interested to find out why she was singled out (if she was) for random testing. Her school might be different, but my experience with private schools has led me to conclude that, whenever possible, they are not averse to turning a blind eye to minor and not so minor infractions. That her school didn’t in her case and so close to graduation raises some questions.</p>

66

<p>"Keeping her at home is not going to prevent her from doing drugs if she indeed does have a CD problem. There are tons of high school kids who regularly do drugs right under their parents' noses without the parents suspecting a thing.</p>

<p>To allay concerns about the possibility that she may have a CD problem, I would propose the following. Send her off to college in the Fall, with the understanding that your financial support is contingent upon her consenting to weekly drug testing."</p>

<p>From what I have seen and experienced, the parents who kept their students home after the students crashed and burned (or were headed toward crashing and burning) in h.s. were the parents whose students got on the right track.</p>

<p>Speaking as someone who didn't do that with older S, whose subpotential grades and attitude dipped big time his senior year. Assuming that he had normal senioritis, we sent him off to the college of his choice where he proceeded to party big time, not go to class, and get "F" level grades, then moved permanently far from home. It's much easier for students to permanently get away from parents home by going away to college. This particularly can be easy for girls, who may find some guy who they can live with, something that happened to someone I knew. She thought her daughter (smart young woman with a history of acting out ) was attending college. It ended up that the D had moved out of the dorm and was living with an older man of questionable background. She wasn't attending classes either. She didn't return home until after the man dumped her after she got pregnant.</p>

<p>However, I've seen that students got on track whose parents kept them at home, making them attend college locally after they had grade/behavior problems in h.s. This included students whose problems included drug use. One made honor roll at local community college (never made honor roll in h.s. despite being gifted) eventually transferred to the state flagship and now is headed to law school. This student was furious when his parents wouldn't let him go away to college. I was among those who thought his parents were treating him unfairly (because I heard only the story he was spinning, which made no mention of his behavior problems). Ended up that by taking a firm line with him, his parents did him good.</p>

<p>Another is headed to a 4-year public after getting honors grades in a community college. This is a bright student who had such drug problems in h.s. that he dropped out and got a GED. </p>

<p>Anyway, I don't think that the drug testing solution that you're suggesting would work because I highly doubt that the parents (who are concerned about finances) would take their kid out of school if she refuses to comply with the drug testing. There also are many ways of getting negative drug tests including by taking drugs that testing doesn't discern.</p>

<p>One thing to consider with the OP's D: Perhaps her drug use despite heavy consequences has been a cry for help in which she's trying her best to indicate that she's not ready to go away to college. Sometimes actions do speak louder than words. Just because she says she wants to go off to college doesn't mean that in her heart she feels ready.</p>

67

<p>Northstarmom --</p>

<p>I so often agree with you, but with respect to post #62, unless the school suddenly came upon evidence of this girl using drugs near the end of her senior year and then decided to test her, particularly if this girl has a longstanding substance abuse problem (which we don't know) I don't think they were doing her a favor. If they suspected that she had a drug problem before this, it would have been a lot more helpful if they had gotten in touch with the parents and spoken with the child as long before she turned 18 as possible. Not only would the parents have had a much longer period of control, but perhaps the problem could have been addressed in time for her to return to and finish high school with the problem treated -- not on the verge of legal majority and leaving to live more independently at college. Not to mention, she would have had a longer period to learn to cope without chemical assistance before leaving for college. The earlier alchohol infraction certainly could have alerted the school to watch for signs of a continuing problem; maybe letting her know that she would be tested less randomly and more regularly, or that counseling or AA or some other form of help was available, would have made it a lot easier for her to say no or -- if expulsion wasn't the outcome of admitting that there was a problem and seeking help -- agree to treatment. If this girl was living at the school, the school was in loco parentis. It strains the credulity that they suddenly noticed she was using drugs at this particular moment. If she, in fact, has a longstanding problem, it seems more likely that they evaded their responsibility to her and just let it go (while collecting tuition) until the 11th hour, when there was no longer any possibility that they would have to face or deal with the messy issues of working to help a student needing treatment. Given all this, I think the school was way out of line to test a week before graduation.</p>

68

<p>nester- I am on the same page with you again. If they had suspected anything early on, the had the RESPONSIBILITY to test, counsel, speak to parents ASAP. And if they had any hint of this behavior, it seems they took the easy way out- as they tossed her out right before graduation and didn't have any further obligation to the family. That is just despicable.</p>

<p>and if it was just truly random- why they heck did they do it a week before graduation?? That is just plain stupid</p>

<p>As I said in my first posting- I do not trust this school.</p>

69

<p>I have been reading this thread but have not commented because I don't really have any advice or experience to offer. I am so sorry for what your family is going through. Really tough at what should be a joyous time of celebrating. Perhaps though in the long run this will turn out to be a blessing that you are aware of a problem and can deal with it. </p>

<p>BA Dad - Please make sure your daughter, while learning from her mistake, understands that this is not the end of the world and that she can recover from this in time. I remember being 18 (a looong time ago) and things that are really unimportant now just seemed like the end of the world. 18 year olds do not have the life experience to realize that they can recover from terrible situations and live happy lives. My daughter lost her first love in a freak accident when she was 16 and I could see that in the depths of her despair she did not see that life was or ever would be worth living - I spent many hours talking to her trying to make sure she did not do something drastic. Right now your daughter probably does feel that she has ruined her life and is probably feeling pretty desperate. Talk, talk, and then talk some more with her and find a way for her to work on her problem while at the same time making sure she knows you love her and that she can still make a wonderful future for herself. My thoughts and prayers are with her and with your family.</p>

70

<p>
[quote]
It strains the credulity that they suddenly noticed she was using drugs at this particular moment.

[/quote]
Where has Baydad stated this? You are making an assumption with no facts.</p>

<p>All Baydad has revealed is that his D had an alcohol incident as a soph & tested positive for drugs last week. The school may have been testing her for years. Or they may have had a "tip" from another student about recent drug use. Or they may have had long standing suspicions and this particular test was the one that happened to be administered close enough to the drug's use for a positive result. Or all students with substance abuse records must submit to random testing & her number just came up at an unfortunate time. (The definition of random) He is wisely revealing only small bits of information to protect his D while eliciting advice. I've read every post on both threads, and there is no way anyone could judge the actions of the school -- there is simply not enough information.</p>

<p>I wish her and Baydad's family the best possible outcome for D's health and future academic goals.</p>

71

<p>"I so often agree with you, but with respect to post #62, unless the school suddenly came upon evidence of this girl using drugs near the end of her senior year and then decided to test her, particularly if this girl has a longstanding substance abuse problem (which we don't know) I don't think they were doing her a favor. "</p>

<p>I suspect that the test truly was random because I doubt that any administration would have wanted to deal with this kind of mess just before graduation. Even if the school knew for certain that the girl had a CD problem, at this late stage, the easiest thing for them to do would have been to let her graduate so her problems would no longer be the school's potential problems.</p>

<p>Unless the girl had done something very egregious that was widely known to the other students, I doubt that the administration would have deliberately decided to catch her in a drug test so close to graduation. If, however, this is the situation, I hope the parents will find out about what has been going on in their D's life because it probably would be a much more serious problem than simply one positive drug test.</p>

<p>Meanwhile, I don't see the school administrators as being vindictive or mean to hold the D accountable for the drug test results. The D, not the administration, caused the situation she's in. </p>

<p>The idea that some posters have suggested of giving each student a free pass for one positive drug screen would be unfair to the students who don't ever use drugs. Not every young person uses drugs. Allowing a free pass only would encourage those who aren't using to try drugs because of the minor consequences if they were caught.</p>

72

<p>I by no means meant to jump to conclusions about her having CD. My purpose in telling my story was to reveal a series of events that some parents can identify with, and that is a history of problems with alcohol and drugs. If Bayareadad sees a pattern of CD issues, then I would seriously reconsider sending her off to college in the fall. If these are isolated events and in his heart and soul he doesn't see a problem but normal(stupid) teenage stuff, then fight like crazy to help her fix things with the college. They will be much more understanding than the high school. There are two situations that it could be, only dad really knows in his heart which he thinks it is.</p>

73

<p>To NorthstarMom:</p>

<p>Where is the evidence that the OP's D has crashed and burned with regard to drug use or is headed that way? She just had the misfortune to get caught doing what many tens of thousands of HS kids do. I'm sorry that you had a difficult situation with your son, but, with all due respect, it appears that he was manifesting a lot of behavioral and grade problems that do not appear to be present with the OP's D. If she got a substantial merit scholarship to a good school, I seriously doubt that she slacked off during her senior year. You shouldn't assume that the OP's D has a CD problem and needs to kept at home. </p>

<p>Do you have any idea how many kids would be living at home and attending community college if, under your scenario, everyone who drank underage or did drugs could not be trusted to go away to school? The mere use of alcohol or drugs is not equivalent to being a "drug addict" or having a CD problem.</p>

74

<p>Nester is right. I have not read further than that post but you need legal counsel who is familiar with both school policies and procedures and the local criminal statutes. The punishment here is harsh for a first time event that may not be criminal in nature, and, generally speaking, the school must afford some hearing before the remedy of expulsion is imposed. Get the school handbook if you do not have it already. Read it cover to cover. Find out what punishments have been imposed in the past in the hope that you can argue for the same type of consequence for your daughter. Get a copy of the policies and procedures for a similar infraction at a local public school - it may give you leverage for a comparitive penalty at your daughter's institution. Is there in school suspension?</p>

75

<p>Clearly, the school is gong to have to fill out the Common App form, if it was a CA school. Clearly, they should not actually lie: they have to check the box that indicates that she was suspended or expelled.</p>

<p>But what they say on the form <em>beyond that</em> may be open to negotiation. That is where the lawyer can come in. A lawyer can advocate for the girl in a dispassionate manner.</p>

<p>We do not know whether or not the school is throwing this particular kid under the bus. We do not know whether they are prepared to imply that she is the school dealer in order to salvage OTHER kids with wealthier or more influential parents...or in order to avoid having to investigate other kids and have a virtual bloodbath of suspensions and expulsions right before graduation. What if they ask her to name names, and she names the valedictorian and a bunch of acceptees at the most elite schools? So far, there is no indication that they HAVE asked her to name names. That in and of itself is suspicious to me: a school that genuinely wants to get to the bottom of a drug issue would do so. They must know that she got the stuff from someone else. So far, it seems from what we know that they would be happy if she would just meekly accept her disgrace and quietly go away.</p>

<p>I'm still suspicious of the school because of the timing of events. They may be pure of heart and planning to do everything they should...but they may not.</p>

<p>None of this is to make light of the situation or of her long term mental and physical health. Clearly her parents are going to do whatever necessary to assure that her issues are addressed. Whether the school has her interests at heart is open to question, though.</p>

76

<p>"Where is the evidence that the OP's D has crashed and burned with regard to drug use or is headed that way?"</p>

<p>From the OP's posts: "D, who is a senior, has failed a random drug test. A certain widely abused pharmecutical was identified....
As background, there was a minor drinking infraction her sophomore year. Since then (recently), the school has gone from a "2-strikes-you're-out" to a "1-strike-you're-out" policy. Which was clearly communicated to all, and she was well aware of policy....
"We have considered letting college fall where it may also, as we don't really think she has fully accepted that her behavior was wrong at this point </p>

<p>"I suspect that she thinks she fell afoul of rules, but "everyone does what she did" (limited reference group, I know).
"We can yell and scream and complain about the timing of the testing etc etc but the school had a very clearly written policy, my D had a previous violation and was well aware of the risks. She had lost all EC leadership positions in the previous violation (it was a massive emotional blow, we thought) and despite our repeated warnings to steer well clear of ANY incident that might engander graduation, she could not or would not do that. "</p>

<p>To me, the evidence is that she continued to use despite having been caught before and getting severe consequences for that behavior. She also minimizes her behavior problem.</p>

<p>Sure, none of us can read her mind or know what the future is. However, given the fact that the OP has said that she's headed to a college where during an overnight the D saw that alcohol and drugs were freely available, it sounds like a big risk to send her into that kind of environment this fall.</p>

<p>Having to stay at home and go to community college for a year or two seems like a natural consequence for getting into trouble again, which would raise legitimate concerns about her ability to handle a residential college experience. Community college can be a fine place for smart students who need more structure to handle the college experience. People can even transfer to Ivies if they do well in community college. </p>

<p>"I'm sorry that you had a difficult situation with your son, but, with all due respect, it appears that he was manifesting a lot of behavioral and grade problems that do not appear to be present with the OP's D. If she got a substantial merit scholarship to a good school, I seriously doubt that she slacked off during her senior year. "</p>

<p>Nope. S graduated with an unweighted 2.9 out of an IB program, where he got the IB diploma. His slacking off referred to his low gpa for a person with 99-98th percentile SATs, and getting some Ds for some grading quarters senior year (though no Ds were in his final grades).</p>

<p>S went to a second tier OOS public with virtually full merit aid, and also was listed on their website as one of their top academic recruits. He turned down 2 top 25 universities and one top 50 (that gave him merit aid) to go there.</p>

<p>S never was suspended or expelled from high school, and was never caught by anyone --including H and me -- for using drugs or alcohol in h.s. Not saying he didn't use. As I've said before, many people use and aren't caught, so I can't say for certain that he didn't use in h.s.</p>

<p>The only reason that I'm bothering to post on the OP's threads, where my opinion is such a minority one, is that I wish that when my S's grades and attitude was going downhill (E.g. He told a teacher in class he didn't need to study anymore because he'd gotten a college acceptance. S, incidentally, in h.s. frequently talked against students who drank and used drugs of any kind. ) someone had suggested that he would have been better served by staying at home and going to college locally until he demonstrated the maturity to handle a residential college experience.</p>

<p>Fortunately, my S now seems to be doing well, 6 years after he flunked out of college, but I'll do what I can to spare someone the anguish my family experienced after he flunked out of college and dove headfirst into the partying life far from home.</p>

<p>My read of the OP's situation is that it would be a bigger risk to send the D away to college now and assume that somehow she'll do fine, than it would be to have her stay home and go to college locally, then go away after she has proven that she has matured enough to handle college academically and socially.</p>

1 Like
77

<p>I don't know how many people agree with you, northstarmom, but I for one would be following your advice under the circumstances. D received severe penalties for the first offense, received many warnings about a second offense, yet continued her involvement. This chain of events imo is a compelling indication that it would be most unwise to give her the unfettered freedom of stay-away college within months of the second incident.</p>

<p>I can live with the consequences if I turn out to be wrong, too conservative, too untrusting. I can't live with the consequences if I turn out to have been too liberal, too trusting, too naive.</p>

78

<p>I can not judge whether this girl should go away to college or not, but that option should be preserved.<br>
Northstarmom is projecting a personal experience onto this situation where a student at a high-pressure school did something probably 1/4 or more of her classmates also did and she got caught. To me the prior drinking incident is only relevant to show that she should have known that the school is serious about consequences and the risk wasn't worth it.<br>
ShallWeGo has it right- It is a FACT that this type of behavior is so common that it is almost the norm at a lot of these schools and with a lot of our kids. There are parents on here who want to deny this and who have not witnessed it or who are not privy to the real world of our teenagers, but this is not the sign of a drug addiction. There may be a lot of other stuff going on with this kid that we don't know about, but from the information we have RIGHT NOW, this was a bad decision and a stupid move given all the facts the girl had- that she had a prior offense, a strict school and a lot to lose. She is not the first teenager to make such decisions and colleges understand that.</p>

79

<p>moewb wrote: generally speaking, the school must afford some hearing before the remedy of expulsion is imposed... The punishment here is harsh for a first time event that may not be criminal in nature"</p>

<p>Just a few notes:
* I've never seen a private, independent high school that held hearings on such things. I've always seen these things handled behind closed doors, by administrators.
* Actually, since presumably the drugs weren't prescribed to her, there could be a criminal component but I don't know that police prosecute for this. Oh, and it wasn't a first time event. By OP's post, it looks like the drinking violation in 10th grade was seen as the first time event. </p>

<p>As far as the other concerns.. I believe I was the first to post that I would keep my child home. You said Northstarmom is projecting a personal experience. Well, we all have personal experiences involving these things even if they haven't involved our children. I would keep my kid home. I've seen too many victims of unwise alcohol/ drug use-- not just families devasted by ods, but kids with criminal records following them for years, girls who end up raped after alcohol/ drug use, etc. The point isn't to be punitive. Where I happen to live, there are 4 year colleges that can be attended locally-- some are more of a drive than others, but there are colleges here. It's not about punishing her; it's about her safety and her judgment -- and making sure everyone is on board that this is behind her. If a gap year accomplishes that, wonderful! I just wouldn't send her off to college in the fall. I wouldn't send her off until she and I <em>and</em> a counselor agree she's ready.</p>

80

<p>I assume BayAreaDad lives in the San Francisco Bay Area. The SF Bay Area community colleges are excellent. Students from these schools regularly transfer to Berkeley, UCLA and UCSD, and some transfer to top private schools.</p>

<p>I'm not saying that BADad's daughter ought to stay home next year; I don't know enough to make that decision. But if she does, she can get an excellent education at a community college for almost no dollars, and transfer to a fine four year college after one or two years.</p>