I was just putting it out there on a site where people openly voice their opinions about college admissions, and I thought it was relevant to the title of the thread. If you actually think that I go around my neighborhood outwardly criticizing people where their child has sent their applications, you are mistaken. I could care less what goes on in their homes but I do feel sorry for their children who have to live up to their unrealistic expectations. I also feel sorry for the kids who don’t have a college fund because their parents would rather live way over their means so they can try to keep up an appearance. But that’s just me. I am allowed to have an opinion and I’m allowed to voice it to the internet universe and I get to do it anonymously. I also would rather my kid stay afloat than “plunge”, which to me can have the meaning of sinking to the bottom of the pool and drowning. I’m all for taking risks, let’s say for the kid whose GPA is awful but the standardized tests show a different aptitude and all their teachers tell you that your kid is not working up to his/her potential. I can understand that, no problem. But hey, we can agree to disagree. I hope you have a nice day! :)>-
“This person is 48 years old and happily married with two kids and an MD. She did what made her happy at the time and is still doing what makes her happy. Is that so wrong?”
-Sorry for repeating, apparently you did not read my post and assumed that I said that her way is wrong. I believe that her way is admirable, very brave person! I also believe that such a long way is not for everybody, not my kid.
In the comments section of the article, lpb said the following about the Palo Alto suicides:
“…no one ever mentions that the children of these big fish (who all came from small ponds) are now a lot of big fish in one small pond. While it can be a great learning opportunity to be around so many engaged students, it becomes less so when those kids are competing against each other for grades and honors. Grade deflation seems to be the norm here when the students are put on a bell curve to ration out the grades… Kids who are below the median of the class don’t understand that they may be on the far right of the bell curve for the total (US) student population… they feel pretty stupid compared to their immediate peers. It takes a phenomenal amount of strength to have the confidence it will all work out years in the future when teenagers can’t think beyond the end of the day…”
This may be the best explanation for the suicide spike happening there. Malcolm Gladwell has addressed this problem at length. Maybe he is onto something.
I think you totally missed the point. No one said this is a preferred path or even a planned path. It was simply the path traveled and though long and round about, it still resulted in happiness and success. Everyone is different.
" Everyone is different." - This is exactly my point.
Anyway, no matter what and how, there is no argument about different families raising their kids differently. So, what is this thread about? I am confused. Nobody will change after reading certain articles or talking to somebody. We all care about our kids and grandkids, but the way we care is different from family to another. What works for one may not work for another.What works at certain kid’s age, may not work at another stage of development.
We as parents make child-rearing decisions based on how we have experienced the world’s challenges and opportunities. Those for whom life has been a smooth sail may be more relaxed about what their children do, while those who have undergone great struggles (such as immigrants), may feel more urgency about their children’s achievement. Of course, school, community, and regional environments also play a part. Parents in the latter category should not be judged, since in reality their family situation may mean fewer safety nets for their child than the more fortunate or affluent family can offer.
Based on my experience as a parent during the last few years, I do regard what my younger daughter does in high school with a bit more anxiety. I have watched my own older kids and their friends have a very hard time finding jobs, despite being smart, accomplished, and having supposedly practical degrees like engineering and economics from top schools, I have also seen kids with majors like marketing and graphic design from so-so schools flounder and work as waitresses or bartenders, which makes it hard not to feel concern about her choice of major also.
For some of us, “best” doesn’t mean objective “best” for our child and/or everyone. but rather “safest” under the circumstances as we read them. It would be nice if I could happily tell my D to relax, go to bed early every night, don’t bother about taking those pesky AP classes, and after graduation just go off and major in philosophy if that’s what she enjoys most, but I can’t.
^ good post, GFG. I would like to add that even within the same family, a different approach may be necessary based on a particular child’s capabilities/personality,etc. and situation. I had very different approaches with my two.
@Zekesima This comment hits close to home. My kids experienced this in university, not high school. It took them 5 to 7 years in the workforce to realize what their true potentials are.
I think a standardized exit exam for all grads is in order.
" I had very different approaches with my "- The same here. Huge age difference, completely different financial situation. I actually asked the older what was missing in raising him from his prospective. This was the best advice that I got as a parent, I followed it. My older said that he lacked more control from us (at the period that we raised him, we lacked time to exercise more control over him, he was pretty much a “free bird”). I took his advice very seriously. It has worked!
I researched a little more re: Gunn High School and discovered that in the last couple of years since they’ve posted there rail guards, 94 suicides have been prevented. 94! All of these kids were accomplished, way-ahead-of-the-curve kids. But I guess in that pressure cooker, they still didn’t feel good enough. I find it interesting that the school board responded by passing some homework reforms (lessening the load), but they apparently have never been implemented.
One kid from Gunn posted a video where she said that parents and teachers need to re-think their conceptions of success. That maybe 2 APs should be considered a lot/enough, and that it should be okay to get an occasional B or even C (gasp!). As a parent of a kid in a competitive high school environment, I really took this to heart.
94! that is tragic. But I think this is coming largely from the parents. The workload may be contributing to overall stress but plenty of honors students in our high school and many others are taking 5-10+ AP classes and they aren’t killing themselves.
If my kid move to the Bay Area, I would recommend her to buy a house in Gilroy. Much easier for her future kids to standout.
@mathyone She was saying 2 APs per semester should be enough. A lot of kids are taking 5 per semester.
Per semester? They must have an unusual schedule. Most kids on semester-based schedules can only take 4 classes per semester.
I think once PE/art/health are done and the kid is taking Calculus, 5-6 APs at one time becomes possible.
I don’t see how you can meet state instructional hours requirements if the kids are taking 5-6 AP’s per semester. Surely you mean per year. And if that is the case, it’s no different than what the top students at our school are doing sans suicides.
I looked up the school data sheet. The kids take only 7 classes per semester, less than many schools where the course load is 8. The school offers a total of only 16 AP classes, if you assume that a kid will only take one foreign language AP and also must be very artistically inclined to enroll in music theory, art history and studio art. I rather doubt many students are taking all 3 of those. There is no way the kids are taking 5-6 APs per semester, 10-12 per year. They couldn’t do that for even 2 years, not enough AP courses available. The school data sheet also says regarding AP tests: 645 students took 1379 tests. That’s an average little over 2 AP tests per year for those students who took AP tests. Of course we don’t know how many didn’t take the AP exam, but if this is such a pressure cooker, I would think students would take the exam. For a school with such a strong student body (25-40 NMSF and 47-86 commended scholars in recent years!), this hardly seems excessive to me.
I don’t mean to trivialize the obvious anguish many of these kids are in. I just don’t believe that cutting a few APs will make this problem go away. It’s a family and cultural issue.
In my son’s school, most of the classes span two semesters, so 5-6 classes per semester = per year.
The school advises students interested in selective colleges to take a “rigorous” courseload of 4 APs, but it is possible to add a fifth or possibly even a sixth (i.e. senior year: AP Calc, AP Chem, AP Lit, AP Spanish, AP US Gov’t, and maybe an elective like AP Comp Sci).
That said, I agree with you that the number of APs isn’t the only problem. Some can handle a heavy load. Others can’t, but feel pressured (by parents or peers or false perceptions of what is necessary) to take on more than they can handle. Add sleep deprivation, teen angst, and disappointing grades and scores to the mix (good, but not as good as the next student) and you can have a recipe for disaster.
AP classes generally last a full year. With a 7 period day you could have 5-6 APs plus music or health or whatever. Our school has a 7 period day with a zero period option.
Most of the Palo Alto kids who committed suicide had mental issues, some had treatment and others not diagnosed. A few of them left notes saying their suicides were not due to family or academic pressures.
A graph was posted in a blog which I cannot link here.