<p>
[quote]
Israel acted as a fascist imperialist in Lebanon since 1982.
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Assuming for the sake of argument that you are correct, the fact remains that Israel left in 2000. That means the "freedom fighters" Hezbolla got their freedom for Lebanon because Israel left. Thus, there is nothing else for Hezbolla left to do. If Israel is flying planes over Lebanon's territory and retaining prisoners who should be freed, those are not offenses against Hezbolla, those are offenses against the nation of Lebanon and it is the Lebonese government who should take action at the U.N. etc.</p>
<p>BTW, I hope your family stays safe in Lebanon.</p>
<p>Yes if you ahve family there I hope nothing happens to them. I have family and friends in Israel and we are praying for them every day. I hope that when Israel sends down flyers and leaflets or calls ur family on their cell phones or maybe takes over the airwaves to tell of an incoming attack your family will not see this asa scare tactic but as a warning to save civillians.</p>
<p>My family isn't safe Razorsharp, which is why I am unusually "involved" in this conversation. 5 missiles landed not 200 yards from my parents home in Achrafieh, a very Christian part of Beirut. I was in France trying to enjoy my honeymoon when I saw my father on Televesion, and despite his upbeat and slightly humorous comments, I feared for him. Not exactly something one wishes to worry about during their honeymoon. My brother-in-law's aunt's building in Beirut was leveled and she and her husband and 3 children are now homeless. Thankfully, they weren't home when it happened. Some of their neighbours were not so fortunate. To Americans, this is a subject of gossip and philosophical debate. To me, it is slightly more personal than merely a philisophical debate.</p>
<p>But let us move on. Razorharp, like I said earlier, you cannot expect a country that has been occupied and oppressed for 2 decades to just resume life as usual when the the oppressor leaves. It doesn't work that way. Humans are frail and passionate creatures. There are some individuals who were permanently damaged as a result of the oppression. I must make it clear, when I say "oppressed", I do not mean that Israeli soliders harmed Lebanese cititizens. I am sure there were some isolated incidents from time to time, but by and large, Israelis are no more evil than any other nationality. However, the Lebanese were oppressed because when a country is occupied, its pride and its honor are completely crushed. Do you know what it is like when you have no pride and when your honor is taken from you? I hope you never have to feel that. Well, most Lebanese did not allow that occupation to get to them, but to those living in the South, it must have been very difficult. The result of that is called Hezbollah. That is why I object to their being called "terrorists". Yes, their actions are wrong. But I cannot hold them entirely accountable. Some blame must fall squarely on Israel's shoulders.</p>
<p>Edit: I also hope your loved ones are safe skisaloman. I hope France and the US come up with a good plan that will bring in a strong and fair multinational force to Southern Lebanon and prevent future escaltions of needless violence.</p>
<p>Thank you. My question to you is, does it bother you that Hezbullah fights amongst civilians. Also Israel did not opress the Lebanese people. Hezbullah did enough of that on its own since 1982. In 85 Israel withdrew to a 20km (12 mile) strip. It aided the Southern Lebanese Army and stayed in its security strip to insure no more terror from Lebanon into the Gallilee. You are also mistaken in that Hezbullah is attacking Israel not the civillian population, not the government of lebanon. Hezbullah a rogue force in Lebanon, with many members who originally belonged to the PLO and PFLP was founded in 1982. Their charter stated that their goal is not only to push out Israel from Lebanon but to destroy the Jewish state. And what I see as the big difference between Hezbullah and the IDF is that Hezbulla lobs rockets into Israel with the intention of hitting civillians, little kids, old people, adults on their way to work. They do not aim for the big army HQ in Tel Aviv or for the army posts in the north but for the malls and homes of Jews and Arabs (2 Arabs were killed in Nazareth) Israel on the other hand aims for Hezbullah who unfortunately hides and fights from behind civillians. Ive used this analogy before and I want to use it again. Israel fight holding a child behind its back and protecting it. Hezbullah protects itself by fighting and holding the child in front of them.</p>
<p>Don't be silly Ferstammendment. Skisaloman and I are perfectly capable of handling this conversation. It is perhaps closer and dearer to hour hearts, so we take it more personally, but it doesn't mean we cannot control ourselves. In fact, this is the sort of dialogue I wanted those threads to evolve into. One where we learn from each other rather than accuse each other.</p>
<p>This is one of the few threads I have seen where there seems to be civilized debate coming from two opposite sides of the spectrum, rather than evolving into an all out flame war of mere rhetoric. I hope that your loved ones are safe/making every effort to stay out of harms way in Israel and in Lebanon.</p>
<p>Hezbollah's actions, I cannot condone. Killing innocent civilians is unacceptable. But you must understand that their military options are very limited. Israel's army is supplied entirely with America's best and latest weapons. Their annual budget is close to $10 billion. Hezbollah has very limited weapons and no budget whatsover. They do not aim them at civilians. They cannot aim them anywhere as they have no accuracy. And Hezbollah does not hide behind children. The Southen part of Lebanon is very densely populated, so naturally, there are bound to be civilians no matter where Hezbollah fire their rockets.</p>
<p>Like I said before, I do not think Hezbollah is good. But their actions did not justify the destruction of Lebanon. Lebanon was just emerging into a possibly viable country and this last attack has set it back years. I just hope that Lebanon does not become another Syria as a result of this.</p>
<p>Eh, you guys will just seem to present more compelling arguments...having firsthand knowledge of each country. But...all the more to learn from I guess. I do hope that both of your guy's families are safe and make it out of this ok.</p>
<p>I dont see why Hezbollah had to keep its military arm after Israel left. To me, if a Israel wasnt doing anything, occupying, hurting Lebanon in anyway...yet Hezbollah continued to fire missiles, kidnap, and kill...then that seems like terrorism. And if my country was being attacked then I wouldnt just sit idly by. And the aid being given by Iran...you have to think something is up with that</p>
<p>FerstAmmendment, Hezbollah isn't a rational group. It was formed as a result of a very extreme situation. Attempting to understand them or to justify their acts is impossible.</p>
<p>Well one of Hezbullahs stated goals during its formation was the destruction of Israel. That is why there armed wing didnt dissipate. Another reason is that they wanted to get a nice foothold in Lebanon. As a terrorist orginization they have no where to go so they have to force themselves on someone or be accepted by another country like al qaedia in taliban run afghanistan. </p>
<p>When I used the word aim I did not mean that theyre aiming for a specific aparment building but they are trying to hit civillians. That is their goal. They can aim in the general vicinity and they do not aim towards Israeli military sites. They aim in the cities and towns. </p>
<p>Alexandre, you wished safety to my family and I thank you for that however do you understand that if not my family it will be another family. When Hezbullah kills a soldier im saddened ofcourse but I see it as a course of war. When Hezbulla pruposely kills civillian Jews that disgusts me. That is why i think they are terrorists. Hezbulllah is hoping to hit my family. They are hoping to any and every Jew. Israel is hoping to avoid ur family and hoping to only strike Hezbullah.</p>
<p>I guess I wasn't clear. I wish all families and civilians to be safe in Israel. My problem with Israel now is that they have destroyed the entire country. Lebanon is destroyed. They have destroyed close to 100 bridges, power plants, hospitals, homes, the airport etc... Of the 1,000 deaths, over 900 have been civilians. Only 40 Hezbollah fighters have died. Israel says it is only targeting Hezbollah, but the facts show that Israel is actually targetting civilians and Lebanon's Economy. There are over 10,000 Hezbollah fighters. If for ever Hezbollah fighter that dies, 23 civilians must die, in the end, Israel will have to kill over 200,000 Lebanese civilians. That's over 5% of Lebanon's population. Hezbollah is a bitter and tough enemy, but they can be dealt with diplomatically.</p>
<p>Not really. Not in that magnitude. Lebanon...ALL OF LEBANON, is destroyed. A couple of bridges could be construed as an accident. 100 bridges, high ways, roads, homes, hospitals, airports, 20:1 civilian to fighter death toll is not merely an accident. Israel is aiming to destroy Lebanon. Those are the facts.</p>
<p>I find it funny that Israel drops leaflets warning civilians to leave towns before they bomb them, and then bomb the roads and bridges offering an escape route from those towns.</p>
<p>I understand this is a strategic move to prevent Hezbollah from moving around, and from an Israeli perspective it is a good one, but it really kills the point of dropping any leaflets. Most civilians living in Southern Lebanon, who arent dead or didnt leave before major bombardment, probably can't even leave now because all the roads are destroyed.</p>
<p>"They can aim in the general vicinity and they do not aim towards Israeli military sites. They aim in the cities and towns."</p>
<p>I agree that thier tactic is terrible, but after 18 years of occupation, where countless civilians were probably killed and even more made homeless, I'm sure Hezbollah just wants revenge and wants to inflict as many civilian casualties as possible.</p>
<p>"When Hezbulla pruposely kills civillian Jews that disgusts me. That is why i think they are terrorists. Hezbulllah is hoping to hit my family. They are hoping to any and every Jew. Israel is hoping to avoid ur family and hoping to only strike Hezbullah."</p>
<p>Israel may not claim to target civilians, but they are destroying Lebanon and making around 1 million already homeless, which is still hurting civilians. I really believe that Israel, in this conflict, is not paying any regard to civilian loss of life, and the numbers clearly show that.</p>
<p>Besides, why would anybody leave their home, even if warned? What does Israel think it is? Lebanese are a free people. They cannot be told to leave their homes so that Israel can destroy them. 1 million homeless in a country of 4 million. Yes, statistics are meaningless all right!</p>
<p>wow Alexandre, thanks for the information you wrote on your previous posts. i've never known all that information (how Israel occupied Lebanon for two decades). the media seems to only show one side of the story, so i kept thinking lebanon was at fault. i guess both are at fault, mostly israel. i mean Israel got so ****ed when hezbollah's leader said he would shoot missiles into Tel Aviv; Israel then returned and said it will destroy all of Lebanon's infrastructure. That is seriously not right. And you know the Fox Channel modified that? It took out the word all.</p>