<p>"Dont you think Lebanon is a little too close to Isreal for them to be using nuclear weapons..."</p>
<p>Haha I think he was being sarcastic, and there must be some low ton nuke that could explode in beirut and not affect Israel.</p>
<p>Your wishing safety to Israeli civillians and innocent peoples really means you are wishing for the failure of hezbullah. Hexbullahs mission and its goal nubmer 1 is to kill jews and destroy israel.</p>
<p>Also your assertions about Israel destroying Lebanon are so wrong. Its a similar claim made after israel's operation in jenin. The claim then was proven false and the same thing will happen now. Even Beirut is not as destroyed as everyone is making out to be. First off most of the buildings destroyed were Hezbullah buildings. 2nd, the roads and bridges and such that have been hit were for strategic purposes and much is still intact. Take a look at a current satellite picture of the country. It will be very telling and then compare it to a picture from a month ago...YOu will see differences but not nearly at the magnitude that you describe it as.</p>
<p>Would you rather have Israel NOT warn the Lebanese about up coming attacks and operations. Doing this puts Israel at a disadvantage because Hezbullah also hears and sees the warnings. No one is forcing them to leave or go anywhere. Just like in Israel most building in Lebanon have bomb shelters. Its really the samething in northern israel rite now. People have either left or are sitting in bomb shelters except they know that Hezbulla hopes and aims that thier rockets will land in jewish homes. Israel does not want to kill civillians. Why would they do it. It hurts their image.</p>
<p>You cannot make excuses for arab islamic terrorists. What they do is deplorable. When Baruch Goldstien massacred 30 some or whatever Arabs in Hebron, the same excuses could ahve been made for him, but his terrorism was deplorable and awful and thankfully the jews do not support such action.</p>
<p>Its interesting you bring up what would happen if Jews were left homeless. Lets just go back in history and see what happened each time. Starting at the Spanish Inquisition. Jews were kicked out of Coorodva and murdered in mass numbers. Instead of hiding in the mountains and firing off rockets or strapping dynamite to themselves they left and spread accross the world building very succesful communities. The decided to contribute to society in jhuge amounts and so they started and ran successful buisness, won noble prizes in disproportionate numbers etc...After WWII when 6 million Jews were murdered and millions left as refuggees with no where to go, where no country would take them. Did Jews strap on dynamite and go after the germans? No, they once again were kicked out of their areas and had to spread all over the world again many moved to america, to france, to South america, and to israel. And they built a booming country in the desert. When Israel was attacked in 1948, did the Jews strap on bombs and blow themselves up, when they gouht in 67 and 73 and many were left homesless did they kill. When PLO rockets flew into northern israel and destroyed towns and homes did the jews crawl into lebanon by the cover of nite and smash babies against walls. Howbout when there were 2 million Jewish refuggess out of the Soviet Union with a home or a place to go? What did they do? The same thing that jews did in previous generations and that is they made a success out of themselves.</p>
<p>"When PLO rockets flew into northern israel and destroyed towns and homes did the jews crawl into lebanon by the cover of nite and smash babies against walls."</p>
<p>You're very good at taking one example of a gruesome attack by an Arab and applying it to all Arabs in general.</p>
<p>All of the examples you gave of Jews not fighitng back does not apply here, because at those times, Jews didnt have the ability to fight back, they had to flee. The Palestinans have the ability to fight back, and that is what they have been doing since they were kicked out. </p>
<p>This is from human rights watch:</p>
<p>"The pattern of attacks during the Israeli offensive in Lebanon suggests that the failures [to distinguish between combatants and civilians] cannot be explained or dismissed as mere accidents, the report explained. [T]he extent of the pattern and seriousness of the consequences indicate the commission of war crimes."</p>
<p>"The report also produced further evidence that the Israeli military has systematically covered up and lied about its attacks on Lebanese civilians. Human Rights Watch found no cases in which Hezbollah deliberately used civilians as shields to protect them from retaliatory IDF [Israeli Defence Force] attack, it stated, contradicting Israeli claims. In none of the cases of civilian deaths documented in this report is there evidence to suggest that Hezbollah forces or weapons were in or near the area that the IDF targeted during or just prior to the attack.</p>
<p>These conclusions were drawn from extensive on-the-ground investigations by HRW staff in Lebanon. Researchers conducted interviews with victims and witnesses of Israeli attacks, and corroborated these reports with their own inspections of attack sites, and information from hospitals, humanitarian groups and government bodies. This process was conducted for a selection of Israeli missile and artillery strikes that killed a total of 153 civiliansmore than one-third of the total reported Lebanese deaths in the first two weeks of the war."</p>
<p>"Survivors angrily denied Israeli allegations that Hezbollah rockets had been fired from the area and that local residents had been used as civilian shields by militants. If they [the Israelis] really saw the rocket launcher, where did it go? Muhammed Mahmoud Shalhoub, a 61-year-old farmer who escaped the bombed building, told HRW. We show Israel our dead, why dont they show us the rocket launchers? Another resident, Ghazi Aydaji, added: If Hezbollah was firing near the house, would a family of over 50 people just sit there?</p>
<p>There goes your claim that Hezbollah uses civilian shields.</p>
<p>This is from BBC:</p>
<p>Airports destroyed:
Beirut International
Qaleiat domestic
Rayak military</p>
<p>Ports:
Beirut
Tripoli
Jounieh</p>
<p>Other transport:
Lighthouse, Beirut
Bridges: 62
Fuel stations: 22
Overpasses: 72
Dams: 3
Roads: 600km</p>
<p>Military"
Radar installations: 4
Army barracks: 1 </p>
<p>Civilian:
Private homes: 5,000</p>
<p>Commercial:
Tissue paper factory, Bekaa
Bottle factory, Bekaa
Other businesses: 150</p>
<p>Communications:
Hezbollah's al-Manar TV station, Haret Hreik, Beirut
MTC mobile phone antenna, Dahr al-Baidar</p>
<p>Utilities:
Jiyeh power plant
Sibline power station
Sewage plant, Dair al-Zahrani </p>
<p>THere is no way that, AS SKISALOMAN CLAIMS, that Israel is only targeting houses and buildings that they believe hold Hezbollah. Even Alexandre said that in the vicinty of where his parents live in a Christian neighborhood homes were bombed. Are you seriously saying that Hezbollah has offices in civilian homes in Christian neighborhoods?</p>
<p>Skisaloman, no matter how much you defend Israel, Israeli's actions speak louder than your futile words.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Dont you think Lebanon is a little too close to Isreal for them to be using nuclear weapons...
[/quote]
</p>
<p>lol yeah, if the winds started blowing south, Israel would have it quite bad. Hell, even without the wind Israel would have it quite bad.</p>
<p>You say the Jews did not have the ability to fight back and flee. I do not think that is so true. If the jews had the ability to becomes Europe's most successful minority i think they definitely could have strapped bombs on themselves and blown up little kids in cafes. They could have purchased guns illegaly and shot at cars on the highways and so on, the fact remainst that the jews chose to not do so. </p>
<p>Also I do not know how much the Human Rights Watch can be trusted. You probably remember the whole thing with Jenin in 2000 and how the world including Human Rights Watch claimed that Israel massacred 500 people, destroyed jenin, completely wiped out the western wing of the hospital there. Well, when the facts came out Israel had killed 43(lowest official estimate)- 56 (highers official estimate) The Israeli estimate was at around 53. I believe only about 10 werent terrorists too. Jenin was intact and was not even close to being destroyed, and the western wing of the jenin hospital that israel destroyed never even existed as it turned out. Human Rights Watch reported completely falsely...</p>
<p>Also I was wondering why my original account name, "skisaloman89" was banned. I was not aware of doing or saying anything that should warrant a ban</p>
<p>Skisaloman, Jenin's figures were never confirmed by an external body because Israel refused an international investigation. However, from what I understand, roughly 20 of the 55 confirmed dead Palestinians were innocent civilians.</p>
<p>At any rate, Lebanon is not some refugee camp in Palestine's West Bank. It is a sovereign state and the damage there has thusfar been accurately reported. Roughly 100 bridges, thousands of civilian buildings and homes, most major highways, several ports, a few hospitals and Lebanon's Rafik Hariri airport have all been destroyed. Of course, that is nothing compared to the human toll. Roughly 1,000 civilian lives have been lost, many of which were children and women, have perished. Thousands more have been badly injured and close to a million have been forced to abandon their homes and been made homeless. Tell me, when one of the tormented souls that lost an innocent parent or wife or child turns around and kills an innocent Israeli, condemnable as it may be, does that make him a terrorits? </p>
<p>But unlile Jenin and other atrocities, Israel cannot conveniently deny the world the right to investigate what it did in Lebanon. The world has witnessed it, from the thousands of Europeans and North Americans tourists who left Lebanon via Cyprus and Damascus to the Red cross and other international aid agencies.</p>
<p>Even if Israel's excuse that Hezbollah hides behind chldren were true (and it isn't because I have family who have seen the horror first hand and told me about it), Israel should have stopped way back when they realized that it could not effectively combat Hezbollah without murdering thousands of innocent civilians and destroying an entire country, one that is generally honest and benign.</p>
<p>Well alot of people have seen hezbullah hiding amongst civillians. I do not understand the UN, IRC, Human Rights, Palestinian Authority, and Israel and other groups all investigated Jenin. You seriously cannot believe that what happened at jenin was an atrocity. It has proven beyond a shred of doubt that what happened was anything but. The int'l community even the UN admited that the civillian deathes were unavoidable and they occured because of the palestinian arab terrorist. There were a few arabs that died because they stepped into the booby traps set up for israelis sort of like on gaza beach this summer when a family was blown up by an arab planted mine.</p>
<p>This also reminds me of the palestinian boy who was shot by palestinians who tried making it look like israeli soldeirs did, but eventually independant european and american groups studied the videotapes and proved it was IMPOSSIBLE for israel i soldiers to kill that boy.</p>
<p>Like I said, I don't know what happened in Jenin. But I do know what is happening in Lebanon. I know exactly what has and is happening. If that is anything to go by, than Israel is not the great country your claim it to be. What Israel has done in Lebanon is evil. There is not justification or excuse that can explain it away. None.</p>
<p>Well look I dont know what to tell you. What I say as a fact you refuse to accept and vice versa. You for some reason simply refuse to believe that Hezbullah hides among the population to make it hard for Israeli soldiers to kill them. They dont wear uniforms. Their buildings and HQ and so on are purposely placed in very populated areas. They clearly want Lebanese civilians to die because it makes them look good...</p>
<p>By the way, you have seen the videos of Palestinian Arab terrorist moving dead bodies of people who died of natural causes into mass graves and graveyards in the neighborhood where there was fighting rite?</p>
<p>Maybe you are unwilling to accept that Israelis are just as capable of being cold blooded murderers as Hezbollah. But it doesn't matter. There is not excuse for what Israel did. Trying to justify it by blaming Hezbollah won't work. Like I said, Israel knows it cannot effectively defeat Hezbollah. Israel knows it is detroying a country and murdering thousands of innocent people in the process. There is no excuse.</p>
<p>So what is Israel's goal then by killing these civillians. If it kills civillians its wasting money, its allowing Hezbullah to still function and shoot rockets into israel, the israeli work forces if off fighting at war so the economy will soon hurt. What does israel gain? Why would they do it? Or maybe they have nothing to gain and maybe or most likely or possibly what is supported by all the evidence in the world Hezbulla prays for dying arabs and they fight in buildings and homes that house innocents.</p>
<p>Israel's motives are unknown, but as they say, actions speak louder than words. Israel has destroyed most of Lebanon's infrastucture and in the process, laid waste to thousands of residencial buildings and houses, murdered roughly a thousand civilian lives and made close to a million people homeless. I'd say that the reasons behind Israel's destruction of Lebanon are many. </p>
<p>On the one hand, it thought that the Lebanese would turn on Hezbollah and blame them for the violence. As it turns out, the Lebanese overwhelming decided to blame Israel. </p>
<p>Secondly, as it is almost always the case with war, Economics had something to do with it. Lebanon was starting to look like the Lebanon of old. For example, the latest Travel and Leisure magazine (possibly the most prestigious tourism magazine out there) rated Beirut the #9 travel destination in the World, ahead of cities like London, Paris and Jerusalem. Many large multinational firms were chosing Lebanon over Israel as a place to conduct Business. Israel probably felt threatened by Lebanon's recovery and wanted to slow down its development. I remember the first thing Israel said when Hebollah took the two soliders captive. The prime minister said that he could not understand why people wanted to invest in Lebanon and that Israel was going to set Lebanon back 20 years. That doesn't sound like he really cared much about the two soliders or about targeting Hezbollah. It sounds more like he was taking aim at Lebanon's development and Economy.</p>
<p>Thirdly, many Israelis don't like Arabs and probably don't really value their lives. Not surprising really, many Arabs are guilty of such bigotry too. </p>
<p>In short, Israel's actions in Lebanon are evil.</p>
<p>And by the way, Hezbollah is not hoping for Lebanese casualties, nor is it hiding behind civilians. I know more about what is happening in Lebanon than you do. My family is in the middle of it and it is highly connected. They have inside information. Israel is targeting Lebanon's infrastructure and economy.</p>
<p>Why do you know more about the lebanese conflict than me. Well Hezbullah admitted on several occasions that arab deaths play in their favor and Israel NEVER felt threatened by lebanon economically speaking. I assume you never been to Israel because if you have been you would see its a modern country with modern development that really matches any european country. They are even building a trump tower there now, but thats not important. Israel is economically the most superior country in the middle east and thats fact.</p>
<p>I didn't sday I know more about the Lebanese conflict. I said I know more about what has and is happening in Lebanon than you do. And when Hezbollah says that Arab deaths play to their favor, it means that it makes matters worse for Israel. It does not mean Hezbollah wishes for Arab deaths. </p>
<p>And I have been to Israel. It is indeed more advanced than Lebanon by a significant margin. I never said otherwise. What do you expect? The us has given an average of $5 billion/year to Israel since the 1970s, not inclkuding the billions of $$$ worth of cutrting edge military technology, equipment and training. But at the rate Lebanon was evolving, I'd say in 20 years, Israel would have been taking the back seat to Lebanon. It is simple really. Europeans prefer the Lebanese to the Israelis and the Arabs do to. In short, Israel would be an isolated island in a region that won't want to have much to do with it.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Israel should have stopped way back when they realized that it could not effectively combat Hezbollah without murdering thousands of innocent civilians and destroying an entire country, one that is generally honest and benign.
[/quote]
Alexander, under your assessment, it is unclear to me what Israel was supposed to do to stop Hezbolla from killing/kidnapping its soldiers and sending missiles into its territory. UNIFIL troops had been in Southern Lebanon without having any effect at stopping Hezbolla. Lebanon ignored a UN resolution calling for Hebolla to disarm. Other than getting rid of Hezbolla, what was Israel supposed to do?</p>
<p>
[quote]
A top Saudi Sunni cleric, whose ideas inspired Osama bin Laden, issued a religious edict Saturday disavowing the Shi'ite guerrilla group Hizbullah, evidence that a rift remained among Muslims over the fighting in Lebanon.</p>
<p>Hizbullah, which translates as "the party of God," is actually "the party of the devil," said Sheik Safar al-Hawali, whose radical views made the al-Qaida leader one of his followers in the past.
[/quote]
I must admit I am a little surprised at the comments of the "top Saudi Sunni cleric". Could this be because Hizbullah is the arm of Iran and the Saudi's don't like it?
<a href="http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1154525810323&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull%5B/url%5D">http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1154525810323&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull</a></p>
<p>You are right, the Europeans never perferred the jews neither did the arabs, however israel isnto so much of a powerhouse because of america's money considering that they give a bit smaller amoount to egypt and other countries, and the EU gives alot to the middle east too. I would say the Jewish culture is what makes Israel a powerhouse. The arab lack of moderinity in most of the region and their desire for war with israel is what brings them down. I think you are from UAE...which is nice, nice cuontry really rich and so on..compare the emirates to say syria and look at their diffferences in life...Also Israel has alot of academic strength and the reason it would neverr be isolated is because of its contributions to the buisness, technology, and scientific world. Look at the sheer amound of jewish and israeli noble prize winners. Youve heard of AIM rite? Well the software for that was developed by an israeli company and sold to time warner or whoever owned AOL. The intel chip was mainly designed by israeli engineers. Alot of times America gives israel weapons and israel modifies them and sends them back improved. During the 1st gulf war and this gulfwar alot of equipment america uses comes from israel, the israelis even helped train american troops. Tavor, an israeli pharmacutical company makes alot of the medecine that you buy..the list goes on and on. On the flip side Arab countries really do not export or give anything to the world other than oil which usually is developed by french and indian engineerrs nad sold by wester buisnessman. Also Israel is already isolated. Its been boycotted and divested bvy so many countries and groups i really od not see it getting any worse for the country. And the countries that have ties to israel now will continue to have ties. And again i dont really understand what you mean by israel taking a back seat to lebanon. What is lebanon gonna take away from israel tourism from non-jewish europeans and frenchman???</p>
<p>Hezbullah actually does want arabs to die. If they didnt they wouldnt center their activities around the populus. They wouldnt shoot rockets from homes and so on. They wouldnt send out suicide bombers, they wouldnt shoot rockets into israeli-arab cities, they wouldnt forbid people from recieving treatment from israelis. Just to get awway from hezbulla for a moment groups like hamas fatah islamic jihad etc do the same thing threre have been so many cases were israel treated arabs in their hospitals and there have been just as many cases where the palestinian leadership would not allow arabs to be flown into israeli hospitals for treatment. Also remember the time palestinians shot a boy to make it look like the israeli army did it? Or the water mines planted by arabs that ended up killing arabs. Or in jenin how a spokesperson for one terrorist group bragged about how hundreds of booby trap bombs were set up in houses and in the streets and how they were packed with nails and syringes and glass and it were those booby traps that killed many arabs, whose deaths were then blamed on israel. Or perhaps you remember the Palestinian Arab woman who recieved treatment at a very good israeli hospital however i guess she decided it wasnt good enough because she blew herself up in that hospital. Or maybe you saw the video of a palestinian mother and her teenage son. He was dressed up in combat fatigues with a hamas armbad and an m16 in his hand. His mother stood by his side spotting the terrorist colors and talking cheerfully about how here son is going to become a martyr, and how he will bring great pride to the family. She then went on to describe her other 9 sons and how she hopes they follow in the older ones footsteps and become shaheeds. The teenager looked real clumsy like he just got done going through puberty, you could have easily mistaken him for an israeli teen. He then kissed his mother on the cheek and went on to shoot 5 jews to death in a yeshiva before he himself was overcome and killed.</p>
<p>Well most of lebanon does not support Hezbullah. The first time Israelis went into lebanon, the lebanese were actually very grateful and happy because the PLO and later Hezbullah commited and commits terrible atrocities there.</p>
<p>Razorsharp, Israel isn't targeting Hezbollah. They are clearly tageting Lebanon's entire infrastructure and its citizens. </p>
<p>Skisaloman, mark my words, in 20 years, Israel's Economy will no longer be a powerhouse in the Middle East. Israel will remain wealthy and stable of course. Israelis are well educated, business savvy and well connected. But Lebanon will become the largest financial, touristic and intellectual capital center in the Middle East. Every dollar that is spent in the Middle East will go through Lebanon and most multinations will set up their Middle East & North Africa offices there. The reason for this is simple. The Lebanese are very well liked by other Arabs and Lebanon is Westernized so Europeans like it there too. It is the perfect gateway between Europe and the Middle East.</p>
<p>"I must admit I am a little surprised at the comments of the "top Saudi Sunni cleric". Could this be because Hizbullah is the arm of Iran and the Saudi's don't like it?"</p>
<p>No, this could be because just like Catholics and Protestants, there are opposing sects in the Islam which developed later on, and oppose each other. All the fighting an bombings in Iraq are from sectarian fighting, just like it was in Ireland.</p>
<p>And Skisaloman, what was the point of listing all these Jewish and Israeli accomplishments???
I guarantee you that Arab and Muslim accomplishments in the past 1,400 years in math, science, etc, is probably equal to or even larger than the Jewish and Israeli accomplishments, not saying thers isnt amazing cause they are smart, but you posting them isnt helping anyone.</p>
<p>Currently, the majority of the Arabs cant contribute anything useful to the world other than oil cause they are dirt poor, and in countries like Saudi Arabia, the Saud family just takes the oil money and makes huge palaces and spends money on golden bathroom faucets, which is why most arabs dont like them. In addition, they're puppets.</p>
<p>"Well most of lebanon does not support Hezbullah. The first time Israelis went into lebanon, the lebanese were actually very grateful and happy because the PLO and later Hezbullah commited and commits terrible atrocities there."</p>
<p>WHAT!!!????!!!???
How about now???? How about, after Israel expelled the PLO in the 1980's, Hezbollah was formed to resist them. At this point, why couldnt Israel leave Lebanon???? NO they didnt, they stayed 18 years, and more and more support for Hezbolah came about. This is an Israeli problem.</p>
<p>On top of that, all of the examples of crazy Hezbollah members that you listed could probably be rivaled by a similar list of crazy Israeli troops who shoot teenage boys throwing pebbles at them.</p>