War On Lebanon

College Confidential Community
101

<p>Well as long as israel has a stable and strong economy with good exporting of ideas and accomplishments, then it does not even matter what lebanon does. Lebanon may very well become a bigger tourist trap than israel that makes logical sense because why would gentile europeans and arabs ever want to go to israel for vacation. There are much better places to vacation if you just want to roll around on a beach and relax. When it comes to buisness dealings with many countries in the Middle East it will ahve to be through lebanon or some other arab country because most arab states will have no deals with israel, however i dont think any of that will hurt israel in the slightest bit because a strong lebanon is good for israel. It will create possibly a good trading partner. Why do you think israel supported the lebanese government in the 80's?</p>

<p>The point of listing the accomplishments is to show why israel is a strong country and will continue to be strong.</p>

<p>I dont know what you are talking about. Israeli soldiers never shoot at little boys throwing pebbles because in israel that never happens. Rocks and molotov cocktails? yes, pebbles? no also the israelis use rubber bullets and i dont see aanyother choice when there are a mob of people most of them not kid usually in the 500-1000 throwing rocks molotov cocktails and shooting guns on top of that. Howbout the palestinian arab kids who are viciously tircked into coming to close to a bomb by the israelis? O wait no, that the arabs who pay 12 yr old kids to carry a bags of explosives accross the border and then plan on detonating the bag at a checkpt or in a populated area. Just take a look at the pictures of the gaza jews who were being kicked out by thier own government and as they were leaving the ingrateful arabs were throwing rocks at them. Take a look at the pictures of their faces and come back and try explaining to me how a pebble could have done that.</p>

102

<p>"Why do you think israel supported the lebanese government in the 80's?"</p>

<p>Yes good point, that's probably why they occupied parts of that nation for 4/5 of that decade.</p>

<p>"I dont know what you are talking about. Israeli soldiers never shoot at little boys throwing pebbles because in israel that never happens. Rocks and molotov cocktails? yes, pebbles? no also the israelis use rubber bullets and i dont see aanyother choice when there are a mob of people most of them not kid usually in the 500-1000 throwing rocks molotov cocktails and shooting guns on top of that."</p>

<p>Yes, rocks, not molotov cocktails, I had to do a debate last summer at a debate camp and had to do serious research into this conflict and life in Palestinian territories, and found a news report in which an extremely well trained Israeli soldier unloaded a whole magazine from his pistol into a 12 year old Palestinain girls face.</p>

<p>I do admit that many Palestinians have done terrible things, but it looks like even after all this debate you're still to blind to see that Israel and its soldiers arent as perfect as you make them out to be. It's ridiculous how narrow you are.</p>

<p>"Howbout the palestinian arab kids who are viciously tircked into coming to close to a bomb by the israelis? O wait no, that the arabs who pay 12 yr old kids to carry a bags of explosives accross the border and then plan on detonating the bag at a checkpt or in a populated area"</p>

<p>Again, one example exaggerated multiple times.</p>

<p>Here's a link to rocket throwing boys being shot. <a href="http://www.umassd.edu/specialprograms/mideastaffairs/death.htm%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.umassd.edu/specialprograms/mideastaffairs/death.htm&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>If you don't want to read the article, ill post some tidbits that prove my point.</p>

<p>"Young Jawariesh was shot in the head by an Israeli army sniper near Rachel's Tomb on November 11 while standing with a group of stone-throwing children. Kanawati was shot in the head by an Israeli border police unit at the Bethlehem checkpoint as he drove back from dinner in Jerusalem on November 22. Jawariesh was buried Sunday November 16 and Kanawati the following Sunday, November 23."</p>

<p>And this part, I am sure you will enjoy ski, because it points out the civility of the well groomed Israeli soldier:
""Tell the world that they left my boy on the ground to die like a dog," screamed Suad Kanawati, Jimmy's mother, as she waited for the Israelis to return her son's body after the completion of an autopsy. Some people are saying that after he was shot, Kanawati was left at the scene for over three hours and his body was kicked by the Israeli soldiers at the checkpoint before finally being taken away in an Israeli ambulance."</p>

<p>"Several Palestinians who work in Jerusalem and go through the checkpoint every morning told Palestine Report that Kanawati was still on the ground as they crossed the checkpoint around 7 a.m. "I was driving my children to their school in Jerusalem. We saw the body lying on the ground near the car, and the soldiers were kicking it with their boots," claimed one. "</p>

<p>"Just take a look at the pictures of the gaza jews who were being kicked out by thier own government and as they were leaving the ingrateful arabs were throwing rocks at them. Take a look at the pictures of their faces and come back and try explaining to me how a pebble could have done that."</p>

<p>The Jews were mad because they were being kicked off thier homes and thier land, the same thing happened to the Palestinians. This situation is very similar.</p>

103

<p>
[quote]
No, this could be because just like Catholics and Protestants, there are opposing sects in the Islam which developed later on, and oppose each other. All the fighting an bombings in Iraq are from sectarian fighting, just like it was in Ireland.

[/quote]

guguru I just watched a special on CNN about Hezbolla. The leader of Hezbolla, a S-hite, contemned the 9/11 attacks probably because they were carried out by Bin Laden who is sunni. CNN said that sunnis and S-hites are sometimes enemies. The CNN piece seemed consistent with what you are saying.</p>

<p>(I had to use a dash to avoid the system inserting ****).</p>

104

<p>Most of the Muslim World condemned 9/11.</p>

<p>Ski, you keep insisting that the Lebanese government and Israeli governments supported each other in 1982. That never happened. A small group of Lebanese surpemacists (equivallent of the Lebanese KKK) welcomed Israel's involvement in rectifying the Palestinian refugee influx that was caused by Israel in the first place. But that's the extent of the welcome. 95% of Lebanon's population opposed Israel's involvement and close to 100% were not in favor of Israel's invasion and occupation.</p>

105

<p>Well first off the Jews were mad but they never killed arabs or other jews about it yet while they were leaving they got pummeled with rocks.</p>

<p>Idc what you say about the israeli soldier and magazine and how soldiers shoot kids left and right...all of that is not true. Other than what some terrorists claim you have no actuall proof of intentional killing. I am sure it has happened as isolated incidents like in any army, but the soldier has always been punished. The first boy mentioned in the article that was killed outside of rachels tomb in bet lechem was innocent, but the circumstances surrounding his death arent what you said. First off, Rachels Tomb is a Jewish holy site on the road leading into bet lechem. It is basically rite on the edge of the city. At the time that the boy was killed the site was just a small dome building with the tomb inside of it and a synagoge inside of it too. Jews would go to pray there every day, never wandering farther than the tomb from fear of their lives. Aroudn the time that the boy got killed there were riots and murders almost daily at rachels tomb. In one case a mob of arabs rushed the tomb killing jews inside. They sniped at them from buildings and threw grenades left and right. The day that the boy got killed there was a riot planned, not by a bunch of teens but by 20 something year olds. There was a few hundred of them gathered around this extremely holy site. To give you a perspective on how small the building housing the tomb is imagine an endzone in a football field...well its about that size. So the rioters and mobs gather around the tomb with israeli soldiers also in the area charged with protecting jews visiting the tomb and manning the chkpts itn the road connecting bet lechem w/ jerusalem. Now keep in mind that in the past few days there have been murders at the scene. They start hurling rocks and bottles, some arabs start shooting into the air. Israeli soldiers fire tear gas into the scene (a reasonable move you would agree) meanwhile the teeange boy who had unfortunately come to the demonstration to bash in the face of a soldier decided to run away so he stands and runs as he is running an israeli soldier guns him down. Now, let me ask you this question. You are a soldier charged with defending a tiny building and the praying jews. For the past weeks there have been almost daily attacks at the site involving guns rockets small bombs etc also in ur head the memory is fresh of just months agao arab terrorist barricading themselves in the Church of Nativity and holding hostages and killing an armenian monk. You remember hearing stories from other soldiers of arabs strapped in bombs blowing themselves up at checkpts or throwing grenades and such. You remember watching the news and hearing how a suicide bomber blew himself up in a cafe. So now you see an arab, yes even an arab teen, running apart from the mob. What do you do. Should you let him come to close because he mite be packiing a bomb and trying to detonate it. You arent sure where he is running, but all you know is that among the tear gased arabs there is one person running away from the rest...Perhaps you mite not shoot him because you have the bravery of the israeli soldier who was approached by a 15 yr old boy strapped with bombs under a heavy wintercoat in the summer. Instead of shooting the boy from a logical reaction he let the boy run up to him and hugging the boy he patted him down discovering the bomb...his life was spared along with the boys. I do not think many people have the balls and courage to do that. In any case the soldier in beth lechem shot at the arab teen. Unfortunately it was a mistake, but mistakes happen in war. The arab boy was immediately herded off by some arab into a fatah car waiting near a closed down bet lechem hotel.</p>

<p>Just as a side note and something personal about rachels tomb that may be of interest to the jews here, i was at the tomb of rachel praying a few weeks ago. To get there i had to take a bulletproof bus. Before entering the final stages of the road from J'lem to bet lechem we were stopped at an israeli checkpt. A soldier boarded the bus examined up scoured the bus from head to toe and thren finally waived us on. As we were driving up the road leading to the tomb there were concret barriers on both sides. Every maybe 20 yrds or so the barriers had spaces between then. (This was night time) Most of the lights in the surrounding apartments were off, but i noticed how close the apartments were to the road and tomb and that anyone could have picked us off from the windows or roof. When we got to the tomb i was surprised to not see a a small dome building, but rather a big concrete bunker. Apparentley the bunker was built in the wake of the riots and murders and terrorism at the tomb. On my way out i stepped out of the barricade to take a look into bet lechem i saw some lights nad felt an eerie quitness that a few yrs back none of thees secuity measures existed and arabs killed people just like me. Soon enough an israeli soldier armed in full combat gear rushed over to me and pushed me behind the barricade telling me its dangerous. I have a photograph of me and a few friends standing with the soldier. There is sheer fear in his eyes. If anyone wants to see it let me know.</p>

106

<p>Alexandre, the Lebanese ambassador to the UN often spoke of the horrible atrocities committed by Hezbullah. As a self-proclaimed student of history you are aware of the lebanese christian government being in power up until the the civil war started correct? After the civil war ended with israel expulsion of hezbullah, a christian arab was elected leader of lebanon. The israeli gov't collaborated with this gov't. I woulnt go so far as to say they were friends, but they israeli army supported the Christian army and the Southern Lebanese Army with supplies and intelligence. Many christians were able to live in peace because of Israel.</p>

<p>BY THE WAY, if any of you want an interesting read on arab propoganda, here is something sort of comical in some way. I am going to post the article which talks about a picture of an arab teenager bleeding from the face rite after being beaten by an israeli policemen with a nite stick. The israeli policeman is hovering on top of him waving the stick ready to bludgeon the teen again. Here is the article that goes with it. </p>

<p>BUT BEFORE YOU READ IT LOOK AT THE PICTURE- you will all appreciate this </p>

<p><a href="http://www.honestreporting.com/articles/45884734/reports/The_Photo_that_Started_it_All.asp%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.honestreporting.com/articles/45884734/reports/The_Photo_that_Started_it_All.asp&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>On September 30, 2000, The New York Times, Associated Press and other major media outlets published a photo of a young man -- bloodied and battered -- crouching beneath a club-wielding Israeli policeman. The caption identified him as a Palestinian victim of the recent riots -- with the clear implication that the Israeli soldier is the one who beat him.</p>

<p>The victim's true identity was revealed when Dr. Aaron Grossman of Chicago sent the following letter to the Times:</p>

<p>Regarding your picture on page A5 of the Israeli soldier and the Palestinian on the Temple Mount -- that Palestinian is actually my son, Tuvia Grossman, a Jewish student from Chicago. He, and two of his friends, were pulled from their taxicab while traveling in Jerusalem, by a mob of Palestinian Arabs, and were severely beaten and stabbed.</p>

<p>That picture could not have been taken on the Temple Mount because there are no gas stations on the Temple Mount and certainly none with Hebrew lettering, like the one clearly seen behind the Israeli soldier attempting to protect my son from the mob.</p>

<p>In response, the New York Times published a half-hearted correction which identified Tuvia Grossman as "an American student in Israel" -- not as a Jew who was beaten by Arabs. The "correction" also noted that "Mr. Grossman was wounded" in "Jerusalem's Old City" -- although the beating actually occurred in the Arab neighborhood of Wadi al Joz, not in the Old City.</p>

<p>In response to public outrage at the original error and the inadequate correction, The New York Times reprinted Tuvia Grossman's picture -- this time with the proper caption -- along with a full article detailing his near-lynching at the hands of Palestinians rioters.</p>

<p>Read Tuvia Grossman's in-depth, first-person account of his ordeal, entitled Victim of the Media War. <a href="http://www.aish.com/jewishissues/israeldiary/%5B/url%5D"&gt;www.aish.com/jewishissues/israeldiary/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>The photo of a bloodied Tuvia Grossman became a symbol in the struggle to ensure that Israel receives the fair media coverage that every nation deserves.</p>

<p>In April 2002, a District Court in Paris ordered the French daily newspaper "Liberation" and the Associated Press to pay damages to Grossman in the amount of 4,500 Euro. </p>

<p>The Court condemned the Associated Press for "mispresenting [Grossman] as a member of the Palestinian community," while the court censured "Liberation" for "publishing the litigious picture with a comment edited the same faulty way, giving the picture a meaning and a scope it could not have." </p>

<p>===== ARAB ABUSE =====
Even more remarkable is that Arab groups have adopted Grossman's photo to use in their own propaganda campaigns, cynically using a bloodied Jew as a symbol of the Palestinian struggle. </p>

<p>An official Egyptian government website is using the Grossman photo on its "Photo Gallery". </p>

<p>And the Palestinian Information Center, <a href="http://www.islam.net%5B/url%5D"&gt;www.islam.net&lt;/a>, incorporated Tuvia's photo onto its homepage banner, (The graphic was recently removed from the site, but is reprinted here:)</p>

<p>Additionally, some Arab groups have called for a boycott of Coca-Cola, for doing business with Israel, and have circulated a series of posters to state their case. One poster shows Grossman's bleeding face juxtaposed with the Coca-Cola logo, and the tag line: "By supporting American products, you're supporting Israel." </p>

<p>Snopes.com reports that, ironically, since Ramallah is home to a Coca-Cola bottling facility that employs about 400 local residents (and indirectly creates employment for hundreds more), and Coca-Cola industries throughout the Middle East are operated as local businesses, any boycott of Coca-Cola in Middle Eastern countries is likely to cause more monetary harm to Arabs and Palestinians than it is to Americans or Israelis. </p>

<p>Snopes.com notes another irony: Pepsi is also on the Arab boycott list, with claims that the name "Pepsi" is an acronym for 'Pay Every Penny to Save Israel' or 'Pay Every Penny to the State of Israel.' As the Associated Press once noted, "Calling Pepsi a 'Jewish product' is ironic, given that Pepsi was one of many multinationals that wouldn't do business in Israel during the 40-year Arab commercial boycott of the Jewish state." </p>

<p>And of course the biggest irony of all is that the image chosen in the poster to represent Palestinian suffering was that of none other than Tuvia Grossman, who was nearly beaten to death by a Palestinian mob. </p>

<p>Click here to see the Grossman poster.</p>

107

<p>ski:</p>

<p>Whenever I post links, you just claim they are false.</p>

<p>But then you ramble on about Arab propaganda. Are you that naive to first off believe that they wouldnt use propaganda? EVERYONE uses propaganda, America uses it extensively, Israel even more. I post an article from Human Rights Watch, and you blatanly said its all false! I admit, the arabs use propaganda, osama and those terrorists use propaganda to serve thier own agenda, but are really that naive and excuse me for saying, dumb, that you believe all Israeli propaganda? you think that Israel serioulsy doenst want to harm Lebanon. </p>

<p>Couldnt propaganda from Israel be something such as:</p>

<p>They drop leaflets into Lebanese cities telling citizens to get out, and they let the whole world know about this. <--Propaganda for thier war and supposed humanity.</p>

<p>Then they immediately bomb the roads, and brdiges, and the civilians cannot get out. Then they bomb the towns, and whenever civilians die, the IDF claims that Hezbollah was using them as shields. Yet oddly enough, international aid agencies and Lebanese agencies don't find any weapons, guns, rocket launchers, and such.</p>

<p>Hmmm???</p>

<p>And please respond to this, because either you will completely ignore it, or make some excuse up like "that's not true" and then post more Israeli propaganda.</p>

108

<p>Well Human Rights Watch was wrong last time it reported on Israel (Jenin Massacre) so its credibility isnt that strong. I would prefer to wait until the war is over to see what the real damage was. Because I can bet you right now that lebanon is not nearly as badly damaged as it is made out to be. Yes, Israel does drop leaflets and tells residents to get into their bomb shelters or evacuate, they call thier cell phones, they take over lebanese airwaves, and they blast messages through ghetto speakers. Incidently, Lebanese civillians are not the only one recieving the messages, so are Hezbullah terrorists. Why dont you stop to think for a second and ask yourself why does Israel bomb roads, airports, bridges etc... For some reason the Jews are the only nation in the world that is not allowed to wage war the proper way. Just this morning Iran admitted to sending weapons and missiles to Hezbullah. Do you think they teleport this stuff or do you think it gets there via roads and airports. The Syrians constantly send shipments of arms via the Damascus-Beirut road. So what does any warring country do? It destroys the Damascus-Beirut road. Do you see any other alternative because I dont . Any other option will just insure Israel's destruction, which is the stated goal of Hezbullah.</p>

<p>"Yet oddly enough, international aid agencies and Lebanese agencies don't find any weapons, guns, rocket launchers, and such."</p>

<p>Are you trying to tell me that Hezbulla is not armed and that they do not have weapons, guns, rockets launcers, and such. Does that mean that the 12 deaths in Israel today because of a rocket attack that was inteneded for civillians materialized out of the thin air? Also, are you trying to tell me that Hezbullah does not shoot rockets from cities and from atop roofs of apartment complexes. That they do not fight from within hospitals and that they do not mingle with the population. Also, we all know that the Israeli soldiers were olive combat uniforms. Would you be so kind to describe to me Hezbullah's uniform. And lets also not forget the recent media relevations made by people like Nic Robertson and Anderson Cooper about how when they were reporting from Lebanon, Hezbullah controlled their every move and told them what to video tape and what to say. The difference between Israel and Hezbullah is that Israel, a sparsely populated country just like Lebanon, places its military bases and installations far from civillian centers. Hezbullah, by contrast, has hijacked the Lebanese government and it mingles its military equipment and offices and buildings with the Lebanese populus. You, guguru seemed to be very well informed on the issues, and I am sure you have already seen the photographs by an Australian newspaper of Hezbullah terrorists dressed in civillian clothing in a truck loaded with a rocket launcher. The truck was sitting in a nice subrban tree-lined street. ALso please do not forget the tunnels and bunkers that Hezbullah builds underneath the buildings. There have been many international agencies that have said that Hezbullah uses people as human shields. Let me give you just one example. You may have come accross the United Nations in your research on the intentional murders of Israeli soldiers on Palestinian Arab children that never occured. Well Canadian and Ghanan UNFIL "peacekeepers" called into UN hq on more than one occasion complaining of Hezbullah's mingling with the population and the UN posts themselves. One troop even mentioned that Hezbullah fightes were at times not more than 10 feet from them.</p>

109

<p>We all use propaganda. But Ski, I will repeat, warning people to evacuate their house because you are going to destroy it is evil. There is no excuse for such inhuman and cowardly behavior. If somebody came up to you and told you to leave their house because he was going to blow it up, what would you do?</p>

<p>If Israel did not have and use US weapons, if they fought fairly and did not invade and occupy Lebanon, Hezbollah may fight more conventionally. I am sure if Hezbollah were provided with billions of dollars of aid and an additional billions of dollars of the World's most advanced military equipment, you would see them dressed in olive colored uniforms too! But Hezbollah does not have such luxury. That is why they are guerrilas. </p>

<p>And Lebanon is not sparsely populated. Over 1,000 people live per square mile...and the South is more densely populated than the North. Israel knows that it cannot beat Hezbollah. No country has ever defeated a freedom fighting force. The US could not defeat the Vietcong, France could not defeat the Algerians, the British could not defeat the IRA and the Spanish could not defeat the Basque separatists. Israel knows that it must murder dozens of civilians to get to a single Hezbollah fighter. Israel knows that it cannot get anywhere with weapons. The only way Israel will get peace is if they genuinely appologize to the Lebanese for the occupation and negotiate with Lebanon (including Hezbollah) in a fair give-and-take manner. Israel created Hezbollah when they illegally occupied their lands for 2 decades. They cannot truly expect Hezbollah to forgive them so quickly for 2 decades of oppressive occupation.</p>

110

<p>"Well Human Rights Watch was wrong last time it reported on Israel (Jenin Massacre) so its credibility isnt that strong."</p>

<p>They were there and they interviewed survivors and witnesses.</p>

<p>"Incidently, Lebanese civillians are not the only one recieving the messages, so are Hezbullah terrorists. Why dont you stop to think for a second and ask yourself why does Israel bomb roads, airports, bridges etc... For some reason the Jews are the only nation in the world that is not allowed to wage war the proper way. Just this morning Iran admitted to sending weapons and missiles to Hezbullah. Do you think they teleport this stuff or do you think it gets there via roads and airports"</p>

<p>o geez, MY POINT WAS THAT ISRAEL MAKES IT SEEM LIKE THEY ARE GOOD BY DROPPING LEAFLETS, AND THEN BOMBS THE ROADS TO STOP THE SUPPLY OF ARMS TO HEZBOLLAH. THATS GOOD MILITARY STRATEGY, BUT IT KILLS THE POINT OF DROPPING LEAFLETS AND WARNING CIVILIANS TO LEAVE, BECAUSE THEY CANT!!!!! </p>

<p>geez, watd u get on your critical reading section on your SAT?</p>

<p>"Are you trying to tell me that Hezbulla is not armed and that they do not have weapons, guns, rockets launcers, and such. Does that mean that the 12 deaths in Israel today because of a rocket attack that was inteneded for civillians materialized out of the thin air? "</p>

<p>....I'm speechless, and literally because I'm not talking right now. Hezbullah is armed, but at the sites where civilian houses were bombed and civilian deaths were found, THEY DID NOT FIND WEAPONS, NO WEAPONS = NO HEZBOLLAH.</p>

<p>"Also, are you trying to tell me that Hezbullah does not shoot rockets from cities and from atop roofs of apartment complexes. That they do not fight from within hospitals and that they do not mingle with the population"</p>

<p>Yes I am trying to tell you that they do not fight from the population. They wouldnt, because then they woudlnt have any support. Fight from within hospitals?? When the Israeli commandos attacked the hospital, it wasnt a civilian hospital, it was a military one, so there were Hezbollah fighters stationed there!!!!!!</p>

<p>Of course they mingle with the population, they just dont use them as shields, and they dont use them period, because thats what Hamas does, and the Mossad is able to bribe civilians to give them tips on Hamas activities. Hezbollah doesnt because they can see from that how Hamas gets infiltrated. whenever you hear of a Hamas or PLO leader getting assassinated, its because of civilian tipsters. </p>

<p>"Also, we all know that the Israeli soldiers were olive combat uniforms. Would you be so kind to describe to me Hezbullah's uniform."</p>

<p>Not too sure, but jeans, a shirt, maybe that red checkered scarf, possibly A GUN/RPG, WHICH ODDLY ENOUGH, are not found at the places where they find dead civilians under bombed out buildings.</p>

<p>"And lets also not forget the recent media relevations made by people like Nic Robertson and Anderson Cooper about how when they were reporting from Lebanon, Hezbullah controlled their every move and told them what to video tape and what to say"</p>

<p>first off, they did not tell them what to say, second, its obvious they would show propaganda. I doubt Israel lets cameras into its military bases and lets people interview Mossad agents.</p>

<p>"The difference between Israel and Hezbullah is that Israel, a sparsely populated country just like Lebanon, places its military bases and installations far from civillian centers. Hezbullah, by contrast, has hijacked the Lebanese government and it mingles its military equipment and offices and buildings with the Lebanese populus."</p>

<p>Hezbollah doesnt have military bases, its a guerilla group. Its political offices are located in buildings with civilians, becase they are the politicians, not militants.</p>

<p>"You, guguru seemed to be very well informed on the issues, and I am sure you have already seen the photographs by an Australian newspaper of Hezbullah terrorists dressed in civillian clothing in a truck loaded with a rocket launcher. The truck was sitting in a nice subrban tree-lined street. "</p>

<p>Yes i have seen those pictures, were they shooting? NO. did you see any civilians? NO. 1,000,000 lebanese have abandoned their homes. thats a quarter of the country, mainly from the south. chances are those hezbolah members were in some deserted town, and the clothes left to dry behind them were left by the inhabitants of the apartment.</p>

<p>"You may have come accross the United Nations in your research on the intentional murders of Israeli soldiers on Palestinian Arab children that never occured. Well Canadian and Ghanan UNFIL "peacekeepers" called into UN hq on more than one occasion complaining of Hezbullah's mingling with the population and the UN posts themselves. One troop even mentioned that Hezbullah fightes were at times not more than 10 feet from them."</p>

<p>Hezbollah mingling with the population, they werent shooting or using them as shields, Hezbollah does that because they are guerilla fighters who are trying to defend thier people. WHY WOULD THEY KILL THE PEOPLE THEY ARE TRYING TO DEFEND.</p>

<p>Yes, Hezbollah may have been very close to the UN posts. 10 feet, not sure about that. But Israel has the capabilites to take them out with small rockets and gunfire.
INSTEAD, ISRAEL LAUNCHED A PRECISION GUIDED BOMB AT THE UN POST.
yes, but im figuring that attack wasnt intentional (sarcasm)</p>

<p>okay ski, we have argued enough, seriously, we arnet solving any thing, we're just repeating ourselves a lot. we're not gonna change our opinions, hopefully i can control myself and stop posting.
so hava nagilah (for those of you who arent jewish/hebrew it means "let us rejoice) that we are safely in America and not over there, and lets hope that the fighting comes to an end soon.</p>

111

<p>
[quote]
If somebody came up to you and told you to leave their house because he was going to blow it up, what would you do?

[/quote]

I would move my family out and leave until the conflict was over. Alexander, are you saying you would stay and be killed? I don't understand your point on this issue. </p>

<p>I watched the Lebanese Economic Minister give an interview on TV. He was pretty impressive. He seemed to understand the problems facing Lebanon and did not hide that Hezbollah is funded by Iran.</p>

112

<p>That's exactly my point Razorsharp, there are no alternatives. Either be homeless and starve to death or die under a pile of rubble that was once your home. That's what Israel does to the Lebanese. And when a group of men decide to fight back, they are labled terrorists. Israel murders hundreds of innocent civilians and they think it is alright. The US and Israel and the UK maintain it is fine because Israel is a democracy and they have the right to invade a country, oppressively occupy it for decades, steak its resources and subject its population to humilation and then, kill civilians because a group of men decide to fight that oppression. But heaven forbid should Hezbollah do the same, and it is called terror.</p>

113

<p>Olmert's response to criticism of killing civilians:</p>

<p>
[quote]
"Where do they get the right to preach to Israel?" Olmert said when asked about criticism from European capitals of Israeli military operations that have led to a heavy civilian toll.</p>

<p>"European countries attacked Kosovo and killed ten thousand civilians. Ten thousand! And none of these countries had to suffer before that from a single rocket.

[/quote]

<a href="http://reuters.myway.com/article/20060806/2006-08-06T105613Z_01_L06692082_RTRIDST_0_NEWS-MIDEAST-OLMERT-EUROPE-DC.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://reuters.myway.com/article/20060806/2006-08-06T105613Z_01_L06692082_RTRIDST_0_NEWS-MIDEAST-OLMERT-EUROPE-DC.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>I had not though of that, but he makes a good point that the Europeans (and I should add the Clinton administraton) engaged in worse behavior in Kosovo. Clinton killed with the airforce and refused to use any land forces.</p>

114

<p>Lebanon has rejected the proposed cease fire.</p>

<p>
[quote]
BEIRUT, Lebanon (AP) - The Lebanese parliamentary speaker, a prominent Shiite who has been negotiating on behalf of Hezbollah, rejected the U.S.-French draft of U.N. cease-fire resolution on Sunday because it did not include the government's plan for ending the fighting.

[/quote]

<a href="http://apnews.myway.com/article/20060806/D8JATNUO0.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://apnews.myway.com/article/20060806/D8JATNUO0.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

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<p>i want you to know that every year during certain holidays i say hashana habaa beyerushalayim which means next yr in jerusalem. I am not rejoicing that i am not year. Israel is the only country for jews and i am taking a year off before going to ocllege to fight in the military. Hopefully i will be able to immigrate there after school</p>

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<p>The UN resolution was rejected because it only spoke to what Lebanon had to do, not to what Israel had to do. Any UN resolution that does not demand an immediate ceasefire and the complete cessation of Israeli violations of Lebanese soil and aerospace will not be accepted by the Lebanese.</p>

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<p>Hopefuly Ski, by the time you join the Israeli army, there will be peace with Lebanon and you will not have to fight.</p>

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<p>Everyone is treating this thread like a case file you present data and argue your position further delaying the call for peace. This is not to see who is at fault this is a forum to see how a peace agreement between the two can be hammered out. what can be done? or is the possibility of one false hope?</p>