<p>My poor HS jr son is fretting over the fact that "ALL" his friends know where they want to go, what they want to do.... and he does not. He can point to things he DOESN'T want to do, but is really struggling with what he does want to do. My personal feeling is that he is NORMAL - I even brought out my old yearbooks and showed him where people I went to school with thought they would be majoring in subject X, only to get a degree in subject Y. Some got MDs, JDs, PhDs... and some got no degree at all. It's hard to know at 16 what you want to do "forever". I told him the key is to get a good foundation in HS, then he can select a good foundational college that will hopefully help him on that journey. I am not of the opinion that one needs to submit 25 applications - I told him we would make a list and weed it down to the select 6 or so that make sense. He is a good student - however - he is also fretting over the fact that his GPA doesn't place him in the top 5% of his class (it's a private school, and 100% of the students will be college-bound. His GPA is about a 4.3 - or in other words, mostly A's, the occasional B here and there, and tasking all the pre-AP and AP classes in math, science, English, etc. I think he is in the top 20%, but note that the top person is only a few tenths above him, so there are quite a few people in that same margin). He has already watched as students from his school have transferred this year over to the public HS so that they could be in the top ranking. And so, I keep pointing out to him - life's a marathon, not a sprint. If his HS classes at the private school prepare you better (than the public HS) for college, he will fare better than he would have simply jumping ship just to look better by comparison in a larger pool of people. But he is convinced he won't even get into the state schools (TX). Has it really gotten that bad? I just don't even recall ever stressing that I wouldn't get in to even the state universities, and I certainly recall lesser students than me going off to college without this sort of stress. He does have Rice on his potentials list, and so that one, I could see being concerned about. He's not a couch potato - he has sports, civic service, and soon an eagle scout to his credit, along with student gov. and various other EC type stuff on his record. He wants to do something that "makes a lot of money" (ahh, youth) and talks quite a bit about sports mgmt, but I am very fearful of that degree in and of itself - would prefer he look at perhaps a solid business degree in finance or mktg, maybe a JD, and apply it towards a sports job if he so chooses, versus getting a sports mgmt degree that locks him into that career option only. (But that's another thread entirely...) ANything I say to him about that, however, is met with a depressed sigh, as if to say "Well if I don't do that.... what WILL I do?" (I also think he needs to be calibrated on how many sports mgmt majors end up representing big clients... and how many end up managing a fitness center or program, or similarly less "high profiel / glam" job.) So how about it... anyone else out there have the child who is fretting over their own indecisiveness? And if so - How are you going about selecting schools to visit / explore, not knowing what your child might be leaning towards? How are you allaying the fears? Is there reason to be afraid of private school competition amongst class percentile - do schools look at class rank, and if so - do they also look at what sort of school your child attended? Is there good reason to fear rejection at the state university level if you aren't in the top 5%? AUUUGHHH.... Like my name says - I'm too old for this! (ANd the sad thing is... I have 3 more kids behind this one, so I had better get over it ASAP!) Help / THoughts appreciated....</p>
<p>CC is the right location to get the info. Read through the many topics that apply to your future students. You will be much more on top of it and feel better too.</p>
<p>When I was that age, I had no clue about what I wanted to do.</p>
<p>At the same age, each of my kids knew exactly where he or she wanted to go to college and had already selected a major – and neither changed their minds in the slightest.</p>
<p>So I think your son was normal for our generation. But maybe not for his own?</p>
<p>Some kids either know what they want to do or they have been asked that question so many times they’ve come up with a response that will make people stop asking…I remember having a “pat” answer (pre-med) even though I knew I wasn’t really interested in it (and I ended up changing majors pretty soon after I got to college).</p>
<p>A lot of the jobs we have today didn’t even exist 25 years ago.</p>
<p>My son is very much the same.</p>
<p>He ended up applying to most schools undeclared and got into some good schools with good merit aid and lots of choices.</p>
<p>I think the pressure these days is ridiculous. It is fine to not know what you want to do with your life at that age-at my age I still am not sure what I want to do. :)</p>
<p>I went through all of his angst over this so I do understand your stress. I finally was able to help him understand that there is no right answer-everyone is so different-and to accept and embrace who he was.</p>
<p>I think he should stay at the school if he is happy. I can’t imagine changing schools at this age with all the upheaval that would cause for class rank. </p>
<p>One thing my son would say a lot were there were just too many choices and too much information. He thought it was easier for us-and I agree with him. However, he is also going to a school and getting the kinds of opportunities at his age that we never even dreamed of.</p>
<p>He is still undeclared and part of his first year will be about trying to figure out a little more about what he wants to do. </p>
<p>I think in the end me being as calm as I could (not easy for me 
) helped him through the process. </p>
<p>I think the greatest help we can be is to reassure them that indeed life is a marathon not a sprint, and to enjoy the journey. He sounds like a great kid-and has a mom who is there for him.</p>
<p>I agree that there is a lot more pressure on the kids now. On the other hand there is a lot more uncertainty. Back in the day, decent grades and test scores almost always got one accepted to all but the very, very top schools. Today, many students with great qualifications don’t get in to their top choices. The job market is also very uncertain.</p>
<p>My advice is to stay calm and supportive. Your S has good stats.Reassure him that he will get into a school that he likes and he will do fine. I personally would encourage him to study what he is interested in rather that what might guarantee a job. But that’s just me.</p>
<p>I would venture to say that many, if not most, students change their major (at my institution anyway; I’m sure there’s data about college kids in general). And given the high rate of transfers, I’d say many who seem “sure” about where they’re going really aren’t. Your son is perfectly normal, and maybe ahead of the game because he’s ok with saying “I don’t know.”</p>
<p>36 years ago I sat crosslegged on the living room floor, and filled out the ONE college application I submitted… to a U that was part of the state U system, which guaranteed admittance to the students in the top 25% of their high school class. I had visited it over the summer and it seemed fine to me. I selected it because it was the best college in my state for my major, it was not too big/too small, and it was far enough from home but not too far (5 hours, on 2 lane highways through what seemed like every small town in the state.) I stuck with my major, added another on top, met my future husband, had a wonderful time, and really never gave the whole process much thought.</p>
<p>I have 2 in college now, and one in high school. Neither of my college kids knew what they wanted to major in when they were applying to college. </p>
<p>My oldest, like classof2015, declared a biology major/premed track in his applications, but quickly changed to a major that is more in line with his natural strengths…English. Looking back, he really should have applied as an undeclared major, and given himself time to sort things out his freshman year. He applied to 5 schools and was accepted to all of them. No big reaches.</p>
<p>S2 applied as an undeclared major to some colleges, and as a engineering major to others. He wasn’t sure about engineering, but was really interested in a couple of particular engineering programs he visited. He just started his freshman year as an undeclared major. He applied to 11 schools and was accepted at 7, waitlisted at 1 and rejected at 3. Eleven applications seemed like overkill to me, but he was the one doing the work, so why not?</p>
<p>Both boys are at state flagship universities, which have the advantage of offering many majors, and many well regarded programs. It has been a problem for a few of S1’s high school friends who started out laser focused on a particular major, selected colleges based on that particular major, and then had to transfer when they wanted to change majors.</p>
<p>Both of my kids visited some large universities, some medium privates and a few teeny tiny LACs before they applied to any. They weren’t sure what kind of school they wanted until they had seen a few, and in the case of the tiny LACs, until they had spent a night there.</p>
<p>Since he’s a junior, make sure he signs up for the PSAT next month both as prep for the SAT but also for the potential of National Merit.</p>
<p>The majority of kids end up changing their major at least once. You have majors that are known for having “weeder” classes, like engineering, to thin their ranks. And a lot of times, kids who are strong in certain areas decide to major in an area because they think it matches, only to find they don’t enjoy it. A lot of those kids who “know” what they want to do will change their major. </p>
<p>I’m impressed that your son is actually willing to talk to you about this so early. Let him know that lots of kids start school with an undecided major; he’s certainly not alone.</p>
<p>Take a deep breathe (and write in paragraphs, please. Much easier for others to read). It’s very stressful but you have a long way to go and a lot of changes occur between Jr and Sr year.</p>
<p>All of my son’s friends who ‘knew’ where they wanted to go in their Jr year, changed their minds by fall of senior year and then changed their minds by the time acceptances came rolling it. Everyone was, for sure, going out of state. In reality, only a few did.</p>
<p>If I remember correctly, Texas does have a top 8 or 10% rule. Where the top % percentile of each class is guaranteed an auto-admit to the state schools, so it makes these schools much harder for the average student to get in to. There’s lots of Texas folks around here that can give better information on this. Your son’s guidance counselor can give you a better idea of his chances. You always, always want to have a few ‘safeties’ in your back pocket - schools where you know with a 99% certainty he will get in. </p>
<p>Yes - the colleges look at your student in the context of their hs and they know which schools are better academically, so it does make some difference. My son was in the top 30% of a very rigorous private college prep school and he got into some competitive schools and was offered merit money. </p>
<p>Finally - my son is a college sophomore and still doesn’t know what he wants to do. It just takes time for some kids. Even among those who choose a major, up to 70% change it at least once, so I wouldn’t sweat it. It’s always possible to change your mind later.</p>
<p>Read, read, read CC. It’s a valuable resource and by the time your son is ready to apply to school next fall, you will know everything there is to know about applying to colleges. :)</p>
<p>One mom’s experience.
My son didn’t know what he wanted to do, but felt good about math and science. The growth and realizations came in the fall of senior year when he had to write essays about himself, his strengths, his goals, his values, things that mattered to him. What seemed like a jumble in September was much clearer in November. The essays probably did more for my kid than just providing info to the admissions committees.</p>
<p>My son grew up a lot junior year. Likewise, senior year, likewise freshman year in college.</p>
<p>HS class of '74 here. NO. Not even in my imagination. </p>
<p>As to your son not knowing what he wants to do there is nothing wrong with that at all. In fact, I find it strange that kids so young can know (or think they Know) what they want to major in/do for a career.</p>
<p>No, we weren’t this stressed 20+ years ago… The pressure kids are under now is nothing like what I experienced. And I don’t think it is healthy, but I cannot really do much other than to try to help my daughter learn to handle stress and prioritize things, so she can decide what is and what is not important. </p>
<p>At this point, I don’t think there is anything wrong w/ your son either having no declared major or w/ having an idea that may not be practical… Either is okay. When he goes to college, he may discover something that really interests him (and it may or may not be what he has pre-selected).</p>
<p>Finally, as a mom of a kid who has a very high class rank but has gone to what I now consider a very mediocre (being kind here) public high school, in terms of her academics, I definitely question whether or not that was the right decision. And in fact, when her younger sister goes to high school, she is going to the high school that has an IB program (so I suspect her class rank will definitely be lower, but I am hoping the quality of education there will be higher). So while your son’s rank may be lower, I bet colleges will recognize the quality of his education and understand the environment he was in - i.e. if my daughter was in the top 20% at her school, that would not be saying anything; at your son’s school it is! Also, I am guessing his scores on standardized tests are (or will be) high because of the high quality of his high school… </p>
<p>Hang in there - This is definitely an interesting ride - and as w/ you, it is my first of three! Good luck.</p>
<p>I honestly think that some of the pressure on kids is based on false premises and misconceptions. The economy is definitely upping the pressure as well, but the early careerism encouraged by our culture is not really appropriate for many students.</p>
<p>It is fine to be undecided. I know many kids who think they want to be a doctor, lawyer, or detective based on tv shows! I have read some intelligent articles that say that planning prematurely can actually close off opportunities, and it is actually beneficial to wander and explore a little.</p>
<p>Also, there is not always a tie between major and job. Check out craigslits, for example. The types of jobs are endless, and most of them, if they require a degree, will say “BA or BS required” and not which major. </p>
<p>Internships and volunteering may eventually help clarify career goals, but first, I think you are absolutely right: foundational high school, then hopefully studying what he is interested in, in college.</p>
<p>The idea of jumping schools to change class rank seems almost insane to me. How could people be so involved in this admissions game that they would disrupt their lives for a number? College don’t pick students in order of their GPA anyway (though some state schools have scholarships for #1 and #2 some places, so that is an exception). Admissions offices look at the big picture. Your son should do great with acceptances.</p>
<p>My kids applied to 2-6 schools (the 6 was because she applied to conservatories and colleges, so there was another layer of choice). State universities usually have rolling admissions, so applying early gives that safe feeling of having somewhere to go. Then waiting for the other results is less stressful. Early action helped too.</p>
<p>Make sure he looks at all kinds of schools. Maybe check out Loren Pope’s books, for instance. Some schools really want undecided kids and have a culture that encourages uncertainty at first. Wherever he lands, he should know that he is not only “normal” but possibly ahead of the game as all the ER and CSI fans learn that reality is different from tv!</p>
<p>Most of all, I hope he enjoys the last two years of high school and avoids major stress in this whole crazy process.</p>
<p>Make sure you aren’t adding to the pressure by fretting about sports mgt versus law or business. He’s a junior? I used to joke that 16 is only when they start to think, to get some perspective- they can’t be all done and planned at that point. </p>
<p>Just get him on those visits (including safeties) and try to make each a good time. Include schools that don’t have a sport mgt major. He has more than a year to narrow things down. There’s a real growth sprint in the next 12 months- and another between start of senior year and 12/31. His friends may just sound surer than they are.</p>
<p>Many hs don’t rank. All send a profile with the college apps, so adcoms will know the school’s rigor, structure and opportunities. Junior year is the time to make sure your son gets to know the GC and builds a relationship wth him/her and the teachers who might write LoRs.</p>
<p>Was I stressed back in 1973 - well sort of. I went to a small private school, the male Ivy’s had just gone co-ed and there were a lot of us aiming at them. We spent most of senior year obsessing about SAT scores. It was all kind of silly - our class had fabulous acceptances. Class of 80 - 6 went to Harvard, 4 to Yale, 2 to Princeton etc. (Nothing like what they get now.)</p>
<p>Neither of my kids were stressed out junior year and went along rather reluctantly on college visits. My oldest knew exactly what he wanted to study (comp sci), my youngest didn’t have a clue, but we knew he liked history and didn’t want to be an academic. In the process of looking at colleges my younger kid found his major (international relations) and found a good set of colleges that offered it, that were also strong enough overall that if he changed his mind he’d be fine. I actually really enjoyed seeing the immense growth between junior year and senior year. He really figured out who he was, wrote great essays. The biggest stress breakers were finding a safety he loved and getting into a reach unexpectedly via early action.</p>
<p>I think the kids are under alot of pressure these days - since when is it normal for kids to take all APs and literally finish their first year of college in HS? And it is totally unnecessary.</p>
<p>Class rank is playing less of a role in college decisions - GPA and test scores seem to be the two items that admissions offices use to make decisions. In smaller schools, ECS and essays can make a difference but it isn’t clear that they make a huge difference at the bigger universities. GPA and test scores play a huge role in merit awards.</p>
<p>I have one kid that has known what she wanted to do from an early age and another that has a broader view…my oldest has a very difficult admissions process becasue her major was very competitive and only had a 7-10% accept rate. My second one is also a junior this year. She has many more choices because she is not sure what she wants to pursue but she thinks it is business-related. So, we are going to find a school that offers business with a liberal arts core so she can explore other options.</p>
<p>I think that it is important during HS to reflect on all the courses that the kid has taken and just decide what they liked and what they didn’t like. By doing that they just get a sense of direction and they don’t feel totally lost during the college admissions process…then they can focus and explore the subjects that they enjoyed when they get into college…and also try new things.</p>
<p>I think the key is not to focus on one particular school - I found what they liked as a junior is not necessarily what they choose in April of senior year. My oldest got into her top choice program but after visiting on the accepted student day, she changed her mind (we did encounter a tornado, hail storm, blizzard, and mudslide w/i 24 hours but that is another story!) </p>
<p>At the end of the day, I believe that “fit” is probably the most important criteria for selecting a school…most kids know within 15 minutes of being on campus if they could see themselves at a particular school. If a kid is happy, chances are they will do well.</p>
<p>This board is a great place to learn from other parents…the Class of 2011 was very supportive during this process…see you on the Classof 2013 board!</p>
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<p>I think that is really the key. The objective, IMO, should not be to get the kid into the highest-ranked school s/he can possibly qualify for - the objective should be to get the kid THROUGH a school that is a good fit for the individual. My DD goes to a selective high school where there is significant grade deflation. Parents worry that the fact that their kids’ 3.x GPAs will keep them out of good colleges. (1) They don’t, because colleges know that a 3.6 GPA at this school is worth more than a 4.0 at the average run-of-the-mill HS, but (2) more importantly, alumni have told me over and over that once they get to college, they find they are so much more ready for the rigors of college work than their peers who graduated from regular HSs.</p>
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<p>I agree that parents can do a lot to help with the stress. I’ve told my DD that I really don’t care where she goes to college, because I’m sure that whatever school she picks will prepare her for a successful life. She’s picked out a nice range of schools and is approaching the process as an adventure rather than a stressful time. </p>
<p>But unfortunately, I see way too many parents at DD’s school adding to the stress rather than helping the kids deal with it. Some of my DD’s friends have told her that if they don’t get into HYPSM or near-equivalent, their parents will feel that they have shamed the family. One parent required his son to spend 8 hours a day all summer on SAT prep, because the kid had scored “only” a 2280 on his first attempt. Other parents have pulled their kids out of the school for getting a B.</p>
<p>I have one thought. We have to learn to disconnect ourselves from others for certain aspects of our lives. It has been great at D’s HS. They never discussed academics and their stands and did not care about each other’s plans too much, considering these to be personal untouchable matters that could only strain relationships. This is the only approach that I can see to remove whole self-inflicting artificial stress and save yourself for real stresses in your life which are unavoidable. I am not pushing this position on anybody, but since we are asked about our thoughts, here is mine (the last sentance is disclaimer).
Another thought (sorry for second one), name of where they go to UG is very unimportant (being good college/student match is important), what they do there will determine their future in a much bigger way then they imagine. There is a good match for everyone, no matter what class rank. All this class rank game is very irrelevant, spend your resources researching where your kid will be happy for very important 4 years of his life. These attitude worked for both of mine very well, lead them successfully to the next step in thier lives. Both went to in-state public UG’s and had great learning experiences that far exceeded our expectations.</p>