<p>Thanks for the kind words. That's what threw me too. The doctor who sent the rec. now holds a national position: chair elect of the board of regents of the American College of Physicians. However, I wonder about the stuff that came from our school. We are in a small town in Kansas, and the counselor was decidedly UNSUPPORTIVE of our son's choices and showed rather obvious disdain and sarcasm toward him, so that did make me nervous. There is a prevalent attitude here that I call the Wizard of Oz attitude...You should not want/need anything that is not in your own backyard. That may have affected what the school sent out, even though the teacher recs. were superb.
~berurah</p>
<p>From a kid's perspective, I wouldn't rule out any of the other Ivies/Reach schools on the list. From what I'm seen, Top 25 admissions really IS a crapshoot. Kids get rejected from Columbia and get accepted to Harvard. Plus, one application might provide a chance to write some GREAT essays, and show some awesome personality, while on another application a kid might have a terrible time writing anything meaningful. One school may be looking for JUST his type of person, interests, or background. Or maybe in one school, the person reading his app finds a certain sentence particularly appropriate to her own personal situation or loves (if he say, mentions an obscure British TV show that the adcom happens to adore, or he writes a sentence that happens to be something very similar to advice the adcom once received from her dying grandfather) then that could be the impetus to boost him into the "accept" pile. I'm not sure if this sort of thing happens very frequently, but I'd say in a sea of qualified, nearly identical applicants (and I think your son has about the same stats as anyone else, no greater and certainly no lesser) that scenario is entirely possible. </p>
<p>If he applies to schools, he has a chance. So don't be resigned to a state school just yet... and good luck!</p>
<p>Berurah:
I'll second the suggestion to consider WashU. Our D2 is currently a happy freshman there, majoring in biology/ neuroscience. WashU offers upto 15 full-tuition merit scholarships and 30 half-tuition merit scholarships, plus others. In <em>addition</em>, if your child gets a one-time $2500 National Merit scholarship, they will extend it for the remaining three years. So from a merit $$$ viewpoint alone, I think it would be worth it to give it a look.</p>
<p>you might also consider those schools with a Public Health program -- you probably already know that Hopkins has one of the best epi and infectious disease programs, and if he gets in there, he could easily do research at their downtown campus. But, other schools, like Tulane, Emory and GW also have fine programs, as do many of the state U's. (An essay on a public health might be received much different by an adcom than the standard pre-med type essay.) Good luck.</p>
<p>That is a really excellent suggestion. He will be working on redoing his essays this weekend. JHU was on the list for that reason (epi/infectious disease), and I think we need to also look at the state U's with strong programs. Thanks! ~berurah</p>
<p>Berurah, best of luck. Your son sounds amazing. I think he has an excellent chance to get into one of his top choices. </p>
<p>LOL--Where do you get those plush microbes? D made a model virus in biology last week out of washers, screws and pipe cleaners. She was so proud of her virus, asking everyone, "Isn't this just the cutest virus you've ever seen?"</p>
<p>Thanks so much for the suggestion! We will take a close look at Emory. I first came across the stuffed microbes at thinkgeek.com, but then I found the site that thinkgeek gets theirs from, and they have a wider selection. Here it is:</p>
<p>They are SO cool, and I can't wait 'til my son gets his Ebola!! <em>LOL</em> We also bought an AIDS one for the dr. who wrote his rec. and whose speciality is AIDS!</p>
<p><em>LOL</em> about the virus!! My son did his senior project on a literary comparison of two books, one on Black Death and one on Ebola. He constructed large virus models out of model magic, but I like your D's idea!! ~berurah<br>
See post above with the link!</p>
<p>WashU does seem like a terrific possibility; it has both law and medical schools (the latter one of the top programs in the country), and offers an unusual number of opportunities for undergraduates to do interdisciplinary work. The campus is lovely--parts of it look a lot like Yale, though it's in a much quieter neighborhood--and students there seem to be really happy. Last year, at least, all it took to apply was the Common App, without any extra essays.</p>
<p>But the other great attraction of WashU--the availability of big merit scholarships--does require significant work: 4 or 5 essays, I think (some of them short), plus extra recs. It's not too late--I believe the deadline is January 15--but I also seem to recall that you needed to get a hard copy of the scholarship application to them by that date, rather than submit it electronically.</p>
<p>With no information about his high school class rank (and the type of school), it is impossible to provide any meaningful recommendations about matches and reaches.</p>
<p>I will make two observations. UMich and William&Mary are almost as hard to get into from out of state as some of the schools on his list. My daughter had a similar SAT, ranked 2nd in her class, and I did not view W & M as a sure bet at all. In fact, I would not have been surprised by a rejection. Out of state at somebody else's state university is a poor admissions value.</p>
<p>I also would rethink how your son is pitching himself. I don't think the desire to be a doctor AND a lawyer is a particularly effective "identity" for college apps. The rage in admissions these days leans towards kids with a clear focus.</p>
<p>You shouldn't feel too badly. A lot of kids put together that kind of college list. I often wonder if it isn't a passive aggressive way of saying, "I've decided I'll be happiest at my state u, but I was afraid I'd disappoint you....."</p>
<p>Berurah: Another school with fine pre-professional programs is Northwestern. Not a safety, but probably a match for your son.</p>
<p>One comment you made troubles me. You mention that your school's guidance counselor has not supported your son's decision to venture out of his backyard. Is that counselor also writing your son's letter of recommendation? If he is, you will want to try to make certain that he is writing a recommendation that truly highlights your son's strengths and gives colleges the info they need to confirm what he is like as a student, the difficulty of his course load, etc. I am concerned that if this guy does not support your son's choices, this may color his ability to write the kind of recommendation your son deserves. Also, if he has little experience writing recommendations to selective schools, he may simply not understand what it is colleges need to know to help them place your son in the context of his class.</p>
<p>Has your son considered Emory? It seems like a "match" school for him, and with the CDC on campus (lots of internships) it seems like it might match his interests as well.</p>
<p>What I have told this board about is NOT the way he presented himself on the apps. On the apps., he stuck strictly to a pre-med emphasis ONLY. This is partly because of what you said (and what we already figured) and partly because there is every chance that he will go ahead and decide on med. school after. He is not fully decided yet. He has equal interest/ability in both fields.</p>
<p>My son attends a large public h.s. in a small town in Kansas. His GPA is 4.5+ weighted, 3.99 uw. Our school doesn't rank for purposes of valedictorian (they did away with that), but he is ranked about 8th in a class of 520+. This is because our school ranks only on uw GPA and he received one B+ in his h.s. career in his freshman year in honors English.</p>
<p>I don't think he put that list together as a passive agressive thing. See, we have six children, of whom he is the oldest, so I made it VERY clear from the get-go that a state school was GREAT with me. It was not OUR expectation that drove him...only his, and we supported him. but I can see what you are saying.</p>
<p>Tulane has a med school and a department researching tropical diseases. Given your son's interest in Ebola, that might be something to look into, including whether Tulane offers research opportunities in that area for undergrads.
Tulane also has fabulous merit aid, and probably would be very generous with your son.
<a href="http://www.tulane.edu/%7Etropmed/%5B/url%5D">http://www.tulane.edu/~tropmed/</a></p>
<blockquote>
<p>The doctor who sent the rec. now holds a national position: chair elect of the board of regents of the American College of Physicians. </p>
</blockquote>
<br>
<p>Unfortunately, that kind of recommendation (from someone who hasn't worked in a boss/teacher relationship with the kid) carries almost no weight in the application process. Even worse, I have a sneaking suspicion that it could even work against the applicant.</p>
<p>Some kids (with big campaign contributor daddies) get recommendation letters from their local congressman or senator. Those are worth a little less than the paper they are printed on - unless we talking West Point.</p>
<p>Colleges want recommendations from people who work with the student daily -- or at least a direct boss/supervisor.</p>
<p>Well, she became acquainted with him personally at a young age (9) when he wrote her a letter expressing interest in the study of AIDS. She is a local physician (undergrad Wichita State University, grad. Univ. of KS), still holds a private practice here, and teaches at the med. school. My son will be working in clinic with her this winter, but she doesn't allow for that until you are a h.s. senior. I so hope that you are not implying that we were trying to manipulate something. My son established a relationship with her HIMSELF. She was not a friend of the family or someone who had never heard of my son. But then again, given our rejection, maybe you're right. BTW, she also asked him to speak at a large local AIDS fundraiser next spring. They DO have a relationship. ~berurah</p>