<p>Northstarmom,</p>
<p>Thanks for the link! I will look into Tulane, though I'm not too thrilled with the location, except for great food vacations! <em>lol</em> ~berurah</p>
<p>Berurah:
If your son is really interested in medical research (instead of first getting an MD degree, and then practicing medicine or getting a law degree), he may want to consider getting into an MD/PhD program after his undergrad degree. This can take around 8 years to complete, but the big plus is that he will receive a full-tuition scholarship along with an annual stipend of around $20-25K. The expectation of the school funding all this is that he will dedicate himself to medical research for a minimum #years after this - he can't just get the MD/PhD degree and hike off to start making those big $$$ as a practicing doctor.</p>
<p>Based on reviewing this entire thread, I suspect that the GC recommendation may have hurt your son. It may help if the doctor adds info to her recc that explains how it's unusual for students in your area to apply out of state, and in general, the high schools aren't experienced in handling these kind of apps.</p>
<p>To me, it otherwise doesn't make sense that your son was rejected outright from Yale. There are not an overabundance of midwesterners applying to Ivies. Based on your post, it is hard for me to imagine that your son would not have been at least deferred. Seems he also would have stood out because of demonstrating a long term passion in medicine.</p>
<p>I second some of the above suggestions: Top LACs like Amherst, Wesleyan, Bowdoin, Carleton, etc-- & maybe Vassar, too because males may get a boost there. Hamilton is also a good LAC. For total safetys, where you can get good merit aid, try the Colleges That Change Lives book suggestions. I think Juniata was one that was excellent in sciences.</p>
<p>He sounds like a very interesting and passionate kid. Do not assume that because he was not admitted to Yale that the other reaches are also "no." </p>
<p>He sounds like the sort of kid who would be VERY happy at Brown, where the lack of core curriculum requirements would allow him to go deep into pre-law & pre med simultaneously if he wanted to, as well as to explore his other interests. That would be the best aspect of Brown for a kid like yours. </p>
<p>By the way, my 7 year old (since about age 3) only wants to read the youth encyclopedias (you know the ones the grandparents gave your eldest child to use for reports, the ones that have never been opened?-- those.) With my older children it was Make Way for the Ducklings & Charlotte's Web. With my littlest, it is a cozy chapter or two about "Inside the earth," "The Circulatory System," "Space," or "Early Man." </p>
<p>When asked, at 6, to name his favorite subject in school, he answered "Marine Biology." I should probably pay attention to the science/college info because I may need it for him in 11 years!</p>
<p>wjb,</p>
<p>I cannot tell you how concerned I have been about the contributions of the guidance counselor, who in our case, is the gifted teacher. She has NOT been supportive of our son's choices, but we had no alternative. And you are right on the mark about her having no idea about ivy league admissions (not that I have a clue either, obviously). So, I really think that may have been the biggest problem with the app. I don't know if you've ever heard of ratemyteacher.com, but all of the students consider her to be two-faced and backstabbing, and that has been my experience too.</p>
<p>~berurah</p>
<p>Northstarmom,</p>
<p>That has been what has both perplexed me and scared the **** out of me. I honestly told myself that I was being paranoid about the GC, but I honestly do not think that anymore. PLEASE tell me, what options do I have? See, I know that if my son sees the recs. they are basically worthless, but if he doesn't, he can be sabotaged so easily. I feel between a rock and a hard place. I think I HAVE to agree with you...the counselor may have done us in. She has even issued snide remarks to me. :-( ~berurah</p>
<p>optimizerdad,</p>
<p>Thank you SO much for that info.!! That is VERY interesting! ~berurah</p>
<br>
<blockquote> <p>but he is ranked about 8th in a class of 520+. </p> </blockquote>
<br>
<p>OK. Then I would view W&M and Emory and UMich as reasonable matches, but I would still want something slotted in below that. I'd feel pretty good about the odds at these schools, but I wouldn't count them as stone-cold sure-bets. This same category would include many of the better LACs.</p>
<p>Brown is a reach, but not out of the question. Same for the very top LAC's -- Williams, Amherst, Swarthmore, Pomona... I believe that Duke is SAT-heavy in their selection process, so of the schools in this general range, it might be one of the poorer bets.</p>
<p>Yale and Stanford are most likely unrealistic reaches. Your son is a great candidate, but the SATs and class rank are just a tick low barring an exceptional "hook".</p>
<p>Your son is pretty much in the same group as my daughter was statwise, so I'm giving you where I ended up pegging her chances. She ended up getting into her first choice school ED, which is roughly comparable to Brown as far as selectivity. But, she also had an application that was easy to grasp and ideally matched to her school, so it's hard to say how that would have translated elsewhere.</p>
<p>My "passive aggressive" comment was more a general thesis. My daughter had two friends that had college lists like your son: Ferrari, Lamborghini, Rolls Royce, Mercedes, BMW, and Ford Escort. These lists leave me scratching my head because there is nothing in the middle between state U. and very, very tough admissions. Yet, some of the best schools in the country fall into that middle range. I never understood what her two friends were thinking. In your son's case, his high class rank makes top schools other than Yale/Stanford reasonable reaches.</p>
<p>I think he'll be okay for Michigan, if he has the GPA to match the SAT. A few years ago, my D applied this late with similar stats, and was accepted to honors in, I think, early March, and heavily recruited by them.</p>
<p>Michigan is a match, but the honors program is outstanding, and its a great school. My H majored in bio an phil there and then went to Med school. I did English there. (BA and MA) we both loved it.</p>
<p>My S, who was fortunate to get into his ED last year (not Yale-level, but still very selective) was going to go to UMich as his second choice. He liked it very much. </p>
<p>I think your son is probably closer to a match than a reach for Cornell and JHU, too, and has a pretty good shot at the others. People get into Cornell and Penn from our school (not a good one) with lesser resumes than your S's. </p>
<p>So, maybe find a matchier match, just for peace of mind, but I'm guessing you won't need it in the end.</p>
<p>SBmom,</p>
<p>Ummmmm, yeah, your 7-year-old son sounds A LOT like my son at that age!!!!!! Be prepared!!!!! You are in for an adventure! <em>lol</em> And thanks for the advice about Brown...it is on our list! ~berurah</p>
<p>Berurah, Your son has two weeks to pull together some knockout applications. I think he will do just fine.</p>
<p>Missing Yale was something that could happen to any one. Having an inadequate strategy for the college process is also unfortunate, but not irreparable at this point. His highschool counselor clearly gets the flipping failure award of the year. Her attitude is worrisome as it most likely came across negative in her recommendation. Maybe you need to have a heart-to-heart talk with your principal before any more applications go out. I hope your sons academic recommendations are rock solid. These are the most important recommendations in the package.</p>
<p>Luckily University of Kansas is a fine school. So he has a reasonable safety. UMich at this point I would qualify as a reach/match just because of the rolling system and your sons out of state status. </p>
<p>The Yale rejection is not necessarily relevant to his chances at other superselectives like Stanford. They are separate situations. Cornell, UPenn, Brown, Duke, and JHU are all reaches, but theres absolutely no reason why he shouldnt apply and no reason why he wouldnt be a top contender. I would think that CMU would fit here too. If hes sure he wants a big university there are plenty of good choices out there as many levels of selectivity. </p>
<p>So the most important action right now (in addition to getting that application spruced up) is to concentrate on adding a few more sound matches and (since it seems that Kansas might be a let down for him) another safety or two. Take another look at his essays. Think about how hes presenting his interests. I know that packaging the applicant sounds mercenary, but he really does need to pull out the stops.</p>
<p>I think several posters gave you good advice on considering a few LACs, like Amherst, Bowdoin and Wesleyan. I would certainly add Williams to the list as they are strong both in science and pre-law. Hamilton would be a good safety in that category. Grinnell, Macalester, Carlton are not exactly safeties, but they are less selective because of their geographic location. My son is at Williams and several of his friends were ivy denied. They now feel blessed that fate steered them toward an LAC education. There are several parents on this board whose children would make the same testimonial. </p>
<p>If he does want to consider the LAC route, he will need to visit early in the new year as this kind of demonstrated interest is important at the small colleges. If this is economically unfeasible, talk it over with the schools as many have programs that will finance a visit from a desirable candidate (which you son is).</p>
<p>I love the account of your sons early fascination with rabies. My son felt the same way about bubonic plague. Hes now off science and into humanities and is veering toward art of the Middle Ages, highly influenced of course by epidemics like the plague. Too bad about Black Death on backorder . . . as Dave Barry would say, sounds like a good name for a rock band.</p>
<p>garland and interested,</p>
<p>His whole michigan app. is ready to go except for refining the essays a tad. We will probably have that out in the next day or two. You have both given me hope for this great school!! ~berurah</p>
<p>momrath <em>lol</em></p>
<p>Someone who understands the disease fixation!! You have some GREAT info. Thanks for taking the time to post! I can't really see him at a small LAC--not his style, I think. I can see him more at a large, bustling State U, like Michigan or Texas. But I have a lot to research! ~berurah</p>
<p>momrath, </p>
<p>I read a great novel on the plague last year called (I think) "Year of Wonder." It is a fictionalized account of a true story of a small village in England during plague that essentially quarantined itself to halt the spread of the plague. Your son might enjoy it</p>
<p>Berurah, my sympathies...I'd add more but I've got to run in just a second. The thing that strikes me about that list is not only top-end but all U's, no LAC's.</p>
<p>I would not take the Yale rejection as a sign of disaster--see the thread about Outcomes from last year's EA/ED--but neither is he a slam dunk for those schools. I think others here can round out a list but A) don't panic and B) add a few schools, particularly re-thinking the LAC issue. He's only got about 10 days left for the apps...he must hurry! And again, don't panic.</p>
<p>Berurah, Others have given you great suggestions for safer schools. I want to add that not getting into Yale says nothing at all about Stanford. They have very different admissions offices. (For reference, my son did not get into Yale last year -- but got into every other top tier school to which he applied. The only kids I know who got into Yale last year were legacies.) I didn't notice your son's gpa in your post, but there's also the matter of how he presents himself in the applications. Stanford really likes to see a student who is deeply and genuinely involved in just a couple of intense interests. That's the way he should present himself to them in the application. Dedication to epidemiology since age eight should do very nicely in that regard, along with making nationals in debate.</p>
<p>Of course, this is not a prediction, just a reminder that all his reach schools are not alike or looking for the same thing. Is he interested at all in University of Chicago?</p>
<p>I do not think that the GC deliberately sabatoged your S. I think that the GC may be very inexperienced with handling applications to top schools, so may not have realized how to write her rec. I saw this happen when I was in a position to look at scholarship applications from one of the country's largest metropolitan regions, and I saw this when my own Ivy's adcom visited my small city.</p>
<p>That's why I suggest that your S ask the doctor to add info to her letter that explains that your city is very inexperienced with students applying to highly select out of state universities. That will help the colleges put the application into a proper context.</p>
<p>When my Ivy's adcom came to visit our local schools, at one school, when the adcom asked about an EA applicant, the GC said, "I didn't spend much time with the recc. It isn't that important, is it?" Afteward, the adcom said she planned to call the GC to explain that when it came to Ivies, the GC's recommendation is extremely important.</p>
<p>GCs in areas that don't have a lot of Ivy applications simply may not know that. At most state universities, admissions is simply based on stats. GC reccs aren't very important.</p>
<p>sac,</p>
<p>Thanks so much!! That's what we thought too---we concentrated very strongly on the young epidemiology interest. The doctor sent in her rec., but also, miraculously, has saved HIS letter than he had written her back in 3rd grade and included that. I dont' know if that was a positive or a negative, but to me, to see the squiggly, scrawly hand of a 9-year-old begging to come and talk about AIDS should have differentiated his app.!</p>
<p>GPA is 4.5+ w., 3.99 uw (one B+ in fresh. year in honors english) ~berurah</p>
<p>Northstarmom,</p>
<p>I wish I could believe that, and I definitely gave her the benefit of the doubt, AND I hope that you are right. It's just that we are not the only ones who feel this way...far from it... :-( But, added to that, she is VERY inexperienced as far as ivies go. ~berurah</p>
<p>TheDad,</p>
<p>I've been waiting for your sage advice <em>lol</em>. I look forward to hearing more from you. I, too, have to run in a minute, but there is so much info. here that I will be spending a lot of time rereading this thread. I just can't believe the collective wisdom on this site! ~berurah</p>