<p>Yup--that, too. We've just talked with him, and shared justinmeche's experiences, along with a few other things. He's preparing his case. We'll all spend some time on our knees, and trust that things will turn out for the best. I'll continue to check in here, in case there are other ideas, and I certainly will let you know how things come out. Thanks again, all!</p>
<p>Hi, I posted on the other forum about this. I just want to add that if he can support a case for a nonmath course of study, and take some classes elsewhere to support that he can do the work in such a discipline, the committee at the school may give him a chance. Few people take that much advanced math, and he can find a number of majors that do not need further tech courses, and start focusing on his other skills which he has not been able to do with his scrambling to survive in his math based courses.</p>
<p>I'm glad to hear from you! In talking with him earlier, his plan is to ask to a) stay there for the term under agreed conditions, or b) ask for leave to take math courses elsewhere, then return to retake. He is a glutton for punishment! Tenacity is his middle name. There are several colleges in the area, and I'm wondering if he could audit a math course at another school while taking nonmath courses at his school to boost his GPA. Have you ever heard of this being done?</p>
<p>I think he really needs to figure out what his problem is with math before munching down more punishment. See </p>
<p><a href="http://www.artofproblemsolving.com/Forum/viewtopic.php?t=11946%5B/url%5D">http://www.artofproblemsolving.com/Forum/viewtopic.php?t=11946</a> </p>
<p>for specific tips about preparing for college math study that may have eluded him until now.</p>
<p>Wow--that's quite a list. I wish he'd had that some time ago. Looks like you're an expert, and I'm clueless. I agree with you about figuring out his problem is--any suggestions on where to start? Calculus has been the big problem. He took Linear Algebra at a state university without having passed Calculus and made an A.</p>
<p>AnonTxmom: Of course, he wants to solve the problem himself. That's what many college students want to do, to prove that they are capable of doing that. That's what I did when it became clear to me in college that I was not going to succeed where I thought I would. What I did was pretty much what Jamimom suggested - proposed to my advisor an alternative course of study, with a plan and reasons why this was the best course of action for me. </p>
<p>You and your S have to somehow decide whether or not to continue on the present course of study - whether at the current school or another - and then either construct a "parachute", look to change schools, or figure out how to cope with the present problems. But the attitude of the dean or advior at school should brighten if you can show a plan for one or another course of action (unless they have reason to believe that the plan is not sensible).</p>
<p>Good luck on getting through this difficult period.</p>
<p>Well...You all were kind enough to help us think through some difficult things, and I promised to let you know what happened, so here goes: as we expected, the appeal was unsuccessful. We've suggested that he come home and attend nearby state school which is still registering and get his GPA up which might enable him to transfer to a better school in the fall. He still feels connected to the place, to friends, etc.--wants to stay there and work. He's beginning to fill out transfer apps. We can't imagine what kind of job he can find with a high school education that will pay enough to live in a reasonably secure location, eat, etc. He has no car, so would have to depend on public transportation. His "life skills" are pretty lacking, so this would definitely be an education for him. I can see this being a good "grow-up" period, but I'm also concerned that the break will really cost him educationally. Also, I'm concerned that if he applies to transfer to better schools with his very low GPA and no proof that he can do better, will it torpedo his chances of ever being accepted there? Would it make sense for him to call or email someone in their admissions office, tell his story, and ask what he would need to do to have chance of transferring to their school?</p>
<p>AnonTx-I experienced a similar situation when I went to college. I graduated from a public high school in Kentucky, breezed through without studying and earned straight As. I went to Johns Hopkins and struggled my first semester academically in engineering. For me, there were two issues-partially the learning curve. Obviously the academic climate is much more competitive than my high school. THe other issue was I simply did not enjoy the coursework and promptly transferred into the school of Arts and Sciences and majored instead in history. While there was still a learning curve because of background and preparation, I was able to overcome them and graduate with a good GPA. I think the environment of Hopkins helped me to find what I wanted to do-while I probably could have finished an engineering program at a less difficult university I am very happy with my decision.</p>
<p>"He's beginning to fill out transfer apps. We can't imagine what kind of job he can find with a high school education that will pay enough to live in a reasonably secure location, eat, etc. "</p>
<p>I think that right now would be a good time for him to live at home and to obtain whatever fulltime job that he can get. If he can't find fulltime employment, then he could work parttime and do volunteer work in a field or for a cause that he is interested in.</p>
<p>This would also give him the time to think over what happened in the college, and to figure out what direction he should take with his life.</p>
<p>I don't think it's a good idea for him to immediately jump into going straight back to college. He needs to figure out what went wrong. Organizational problems? Did he pick the wrong major? </p>
<p>I still think that he hasn't yet told you the whole story. He may not have admitted the whole story to himself. The extra time at home this semester will give him a chance to come to grips about what happened, and it would give you time to see if what he's telling you coincides with what you see of his behavior. </p>
<p>His taking a semester or even a year off from school will not mean that he will never graduate from college or obtain a job that would comfortably support him. Better to allow him some structured time to regroup than for him to jump back into the frying pan.</p>
<p>You may be right about taking time off from school, and we would certainly prefer to have him home where we could observe him a bit more closely. I think you are right that we don't yet know the whole story. Getting a job in our small town could be difficult, however, and being home after being "the star" here would also be hard. He is also up against March 1 application deadlines for next fall transfers. That's why I was wondering about calling admissions to ask what they'd want to see before considering his application. Good idea, or bad?</p>
<p>Is his tech/math career choice a really definite one? Does he have other fields he might want to explore more deeply and find a better fit?</p>
<p>". Getting a job in our small town could be difficult, however, and being home after being "the star" here would also be hard. He is also up against March 1 application deadlines for next fall transfers. That's why I was wondering about calling admissions to ask what they'd want to see before considering his application. Good idea, or bad?"</p>
<p>He also could do some structured, regular volunteer work in a field or with an agency that he has an interest in. This would give him a good chance to bounce back and to find out more about his interests, talents and the direction he'd like to take in life.</p>
<p>He also could spend some time getting counseling. I suspect he is depressed, overwhelmed with his situation and could use some help sorting things out. It would be good if he could work with a counselor experienced with people having crises regarding careers.</p>
<p>As for his transfer situation, I think that you should be supportive, but let him take the actions that are needed. If he needs your help to do things like make calls, he is not yet ready to handle the stress and work that college requires. He really may need a year or so to figure out what direction to take with his life.</p>
<p>All good ideas. It appears I've given the wrong impression about calling admissions--I wasn't suggesting that I make the calls, just wondering if it would be a good idea for him to do so instead of applying without talking to someone first (see previous post). We want to strike the right balance between being helpful and compassionate and allowing him to grow up.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Part of my difficulty with this is my inability to understand what he doesn't understand, if you know what I mean. He does OK on the problem sets and lousy on the tests.
[/quote]
If the problem sets are assigned from the book then the difficulty between doing them and the test is dramatic. Typically the assignment might be "do the even problems 2-14 on page X of the book". However texts typically have to solutions in the back to 1/2 the problems, in this case I'll assume the odd ones. So its possible to finish the problem sets by referring to the solutions of similar problems and by looking in the chapter, and still have no real understanding of the material. Then the test arrives, without the crutch of solved problems to refer to, and you're stuck.</p>
<p>Added to this is the cumulative nature of math and science, where what you learn in class B strongly depends on the material in class A. Linear Algebra, which you said he did ok on, is one of the exceptions in math since its largely self-contained and you don't need a large number of prerequisites to learn it. But in calculus, if you didn't master the idea of substitution, for example, you're going to be really lost when you move on to using trigonometric functions for substitution, and ready to throw up your hands when you are doing volumes & areas of revolution and need all those forms of substitution in order to solve the integrals. This may sound like gobbledy-gook but ask your son and I'm sure he can explain what it means! Again, the problem is that you can limp on using solved examples to guide you in the problem sets but be completely stumped on the tests. </p>
<p>And the classes move so fast that if you don't learn something the first time thru their isn't really time to go back and review it a month (or year) later; you have so much work to just get the labs and problem sets done.</p>
<p>So not knowing your son I'm going to make the following guess. He had enough native intelligence and drive to keep up in the math classes for a while, even though he wasn't really mastering all the material. As time moved on the amount he really understood was dropping as were his test scores, but he kept trying to move forward. Eventually he ended up where he is today, where the current math classes are just too difficult. If he agrees with this assessment, then even if he does decide to stay in a technical field enrolling as a xfer somewhere else is not the right strategy at this point. He will simply be taking the same math courses somewhere else, with about the same results. He needs to figure out what he knows and what he doesn't, and retake the math classes (even without getting college credit) at a CC or some other school and this time make sure he is understanding the material.</p>