<p>I think I’m beginning to understand the banking crisis…</p>
<p>Scary amount of rationalizing of bad behavior going on by the victims of it here. Reminds me of the research on the kidnapping victims and the alliance with their kidnappers.
Here’s one of many articles on the frightening increase in suicides amongst asian-american students [The</a> Growing Rate of Depression, Suicide Among Asian American Students](<a href=“http://www.pacificcitizen.org/site/details/tabid/55/selectmoduleid/373/ArticleID/490/reftab/36/Default.aspx?title=The_Growing_Rate_of_Depression,_Suicide_Among_Asian_American_Students_]The”>http://www.pacificcitizen.org/site/details/tabid/55/selectmoduleid/373/ArticleID/490/reftab/36/Default.aspx?title=The_Growing_Rate_of_Depression,_Suicide_Among_Asian_American_Students_) One shouldn’t live their lives being afraid of the consequences of not living up to unreasonably high expectations, nor of having to justify the abuse they took (and the excuses and justification given by those delivering the abuse). Child abuse is a criminal offense. Period.</p>
<p>What state do you live in, jason? Pull up the criminal code of your state, and you can find the laws against child abuse. Eating your young? Sheesh. You are clearly just having fun yanking the parents chains with this dribble.</p>
<p>A Korean man worked for me a few years ago. He had impeccable education and experience. He was always very courteous to me and his peers. But in a few months I started to hear from his staff that he was abusive, and often screamed at them at meetings. One young woman resigned. At her exiting interview with me, she finally told me that he was so abusive toward her, she miscarried her first child. In my conversation with this guy, I knew his father often beat him whenever he didn’t do well in school. I had to let the guy go because he was too much liability to the firm. </p>
<p>I am an Asian mom. I do not believe in “beating” my kids. I do think parents need to be firm and consistent when dealing with kids. Certainly, my kids wouldn’t address any adults in such manner, it is part of the Asian culture. We try to retain what’s positive from every culture, and the decorum of addressing people properly is still very much part of kids’ upbringing.</p>
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This is why I love CC…</p>
<p>Screwit - if you’ll exercise your own critical reading skills, you’ll see that my initial response was to this post by jasonInNY, which quite specifically credits corporal punishment with “making the difference.” And his subsequent post emphasizes the connection:
He equates beatings with a good outcome. And since beatings also have negative outcomes, I questioned him, and later you, about this. There is nothing knee-jerk in my response; however, there is in your assertion that I “automatically labeled parents as villains.” I did no such thing, and you’ve got some fairly exceptional critical reading skills yourself to find that in my post. I extended my sympathies because you stated that you received “many” beatings from your parents when you were young, and congratulations didn’t really seem to be in order. But, fine - I’ll withdraw my sympathies, if they so offend you. </p>
<p>I have always wondered why, if corporal punishment is effective, repeated beatings are necessary. I mean, especially since we’re talking future Ivy-bound kids here, wouldn’t you think they’d be smart enough to make the connection between misbehavior and physical pain after the first few wallops?</p>
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<p>Maybe you would have turned out EVEN BETTER if they had beat you harder? Do you regret they didn’t beat you harder? Crazy.</p>
<p>^^ No. They beat me just enough so I got ahold of myself, learning to avoid future beatings. Thats all it takes.</p>
<p>Lets go back to my question: why is it wrong to beat your kids? </p>
<p>Just because something is illegal doesnt mean is wrong. It just means the majority of people support the legal measure (think gay marriage in most states or heavily shaded car windows).</p>
<p>Because we live in an age of science, the new religion, i have to ask those of you who disapprove of corporal punishment: WHERE IS YOUR EVIDENCE THAT BEATING CHILDREN IS WRONG?</p>
<p>This is a thread about what parents did RIGHT. It seems to me that the onus is on you to provide evidence that “beating children” is the “right” thing to do, particularly in the context of college admission.</p>
<p>OP asked… 'If we take a look at the big picture, what are the top 3 factors that you will contribute to your satisfying results? Let’s not count the religious ones here and focus on the admission stage of the game only. "</p>
<p>FWIW, I can provide evidence that in disruptive behavior disorders (oppositional define disorder, ADHD), children do not condition as well to punishment as they do to reward. </p>
<p><a href=“http://www.springerlink.com/content/lv650357r4564862/[/url]”>http://www.springerlink.com/content/lv650357r4564862/</a></p>
<p><a href=“http://www.ehow.com/about_5472545_earlyonset-oppositional-defiant-disorder.html[/url]”>http://www.ehow.com/about_5472545_earlyonset-oppositional-defiant-disorder.html</a></p>
<p><a href=“http://www.joba-ovtp.net/DOCS/VOL1/Individual/Wallace294-v1i3.pdf[/url]”>http://www.joba-ovtp.net/DOCS/VOL1/Individual/Wallace294-v1i3.pdf</a></p>
<p>My mom never “beat” me, but if I hit her or anything like that I got the wooden spoon to my bum
I also got soap in my mouth when I was mouthy. </p>
<p>I think both taught me discipline, but both are far short of beating</p>
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<p>I’m not sure if jason is really communicating correctly here. In today’s climate, “beating” has the overtone of “abuse” if the context does not make it clear it isn’t. If he means “corporal punishment”, then it is legal in all 50 states, with certain restrictions. Corporal punishment for misbehavior is accepted by most cultures and countries as a method of discipline.</p>
<p>Whether corporal punishment is an effective method is what we should be discussing here.</p>
<p>Yes - if we want to stay on topic, we should be discussing whether corporal punishment is effective as a “major contributing factor to get a kid into a T10,” as Dad II originally posted. I’m thinking no.</p>
<p>But if I might engage Screwit once more on the topic of critical reading – are you familiar with the TOS of this board? Is it because of my inferior mind that I find your remarks in posts 227 and 237 to be out of compliance with the following? </p>
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<p>Of course you understand the above, being at one of the best colleges in the world and all. So is there a reason the TOS don’t apply to you?</p>
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<p>Sorry. My mistake. I made the assumption that the reason your parents “beat” you was to provide some good effect - I inferred this because you said they did it “only when i was behaving badly or naughtily, never to make me study”. I assumed that they did it to try to stop this naughty behavior. Again, maybe I jumped to a conclusion - maybe they were trying to encourage this bad behavior because you enjoyed the beatings. Apparently, one must read just the exact verbiage of what you post. So I guess I’ve got to ask you the questions directly. I’m curious. What was the reason they beat you? Pleasure? On a whim? Or to bring about a good effect? Was it effective?</p>
<p>This thread sure has taken an interesting turn. From “what did you do right?” we’ve come around to the merits of child-beating.</p>
<p>I’m no more interested in “evidence” that child-beating is wrong than I would be in evidence that lying or stealing is wrong. These are matters of moral judgment. Of course, we do have ample evidence that beating is an effective way to get your kid into the SP, if not HYPSM. The State Penitentiaries are full of inmates who were beaten as children. If Asian parents have figured out how to beat their kids “effectively”, sorry, that’s still not a lesson I’d care to follow. We never spanked our children let alone beat them with a belt.</p>
<p>Lets establish that Asian parents beat their kids at much higher frequencies than non asian kids. Almost all the asian kids i know, male or female, were beaten. Most were only beaten once or twice for something serious. </p>
<p>Yet how many people in Prison are asian???</p>
<p>You just do the math.</p>
<p>^^^^Please tell me you’re joking if you think this is some sort of reliable experimental construct. First, where is your evidence for the first statement in this post? Second, even if that is true, you are looking at only one ethnic group with absolutely no experimental controls. What if you found that most Caucasion, Hispanic, and African American kids who were beaten end up in prison? Not saying this is true, but you are not even considering vast swaths of the population.</p>
<p>I don’t want to put this in terms of ANY race or nationality. That’s a trip I’d rather not take. </p>
<p>I will say, in my experience, that the children who I KNOW were spanked as their primary form of punishment/discipline, have tended to become rule followers, afraid of authority and not terribly creative or innovative. That’s not what I want for my kids.</p>
<p>I’ve edited to add that while I believe that a healthy respect for rules is important, following a rule blindly is not.</p>
<p>I said this in an earlier post and I’ll say it again.
When I was little, my mom would hit our bums with a wooden spoon or stick soap in our mouth. Both fall short of beating, both ended by age 5, and both taught discipline</p>
<p>You don’t need to belt kids or anything</p>
<p>If it is true that Asian American parents “beat” their children at much higher frequencies than non-Asian parents, it would not necessarily follow that there is a significant cause-effect relationship between the beatings and the low crime rate. Law abiding, successful behavior may occur despite the beatings not because of them. If there is any cause effect relationship, then we’d need to be clear about the frequency, nature and intensity of punishments to distinguish them from criminal child abuse.</p>
<p>In any case, we have good role models in this country for effective child-rearing without resorting to beatings. The Religious Society of Friends (Quakers) founded or financed some of the nation’s most respected high schools, colleges and universities (including Haverford, Bryn Mawr, Swarthmore, Cornell, Johns Hopkins). For centuries, Quakers have taken a strong stand for education and against corporal punishment.</p>
<p>"I don’t want to put this in terms of ANY race or nationality. That’s a trip I’d rather not take. /'</p>
<p>Sigh. Me either BUT …I think you will find African Americans are disproportionately represented among parents who use corporal punishment AND those in prison. </p>
<p><a href=“http://pubpages.unh.edu/~mas2/CP36.pdf[/url]”>http://pubpages.unh.edu/~mas2/CP36.pdf</a></p>