<p>I think when Bay says “we were very close”, the answer is there. All kinds of parenting work well, when there’s respect and trust and closeness between the parents and kids. Bay said no dating before 16 and the kids respected that. I didn’t say no dating, but D was too interested in her studies and EC’s to care about dating. We’ve both raised strong, happy, ‘successful’ kids. </p>
<p>Cayman, I’m another one whose parents didn’t have a clue about my education and yes, I’ve made D’s education a central focus (in the most holistic way I can). Seems like that’s a common thread on CC–</p>
<p>This thread is interesting to read.
About the role of genes, I have an example -
Two family friends of ours have one kid of their own. the kid is a freaking genius. He skipped two grades. By the time he was 8, his parents adopted a boy one year older than he was. I don’t remember where the adopted boy is from but i know he’s black.
The family raised up the black boy the same way they raised up their own child. Even though this kid did not speak a single word of english when he first came to this country, he later became a rising start in his school. Now he’s a HS junior, they have good hope for him to go to an IVY because he is black, and he is academically very strong due to his parents influence. On the other hand, this white brother, (that freaking genius) has no clue which of the school he likes will admit him. </p>
<p>So what’s the role of genes in this story? which is real, almost my next door.
and yeah sure, for the black kid, afirmative action is to his advantage.</p>
<p>shmluza…oh please…now this is gonna turn into an affirmative action thread? Oy. </p>
<p>Ya know, the kid who had to change cultures/country at age 8, change who raised him, and didn’t speak a word of English and is now excelling, has a great story to tell and has overcome significant challenges. I don’t care the color of his skin. That alone sets him apart from the other boy in his family in an applicant pool. </p>
<p>Ya wanna talk genes? OK, how about parents raise two kids. One excels and is a charm to raise and is successful in every way. One gets into trouble with the law and is expelled from school, etc. Same parents. It isn’t all the parents when it comes to how kids turn out. Parents can be great parents yet have some very challenging children either behaviorally, academically, or both. As parents, we get what we get in our kids. We can try our hardest but still have the kids we have. Admittedly, my kids have been pretty easy to raise and I have no complaints and many would consider them successful so far for their age. But I don’t take credit. Just as easily, I could have had one or more who turned out differently due to who they were as a person no matter what I did as a parent. Lots of parents have a very challenging child while at the same time have a very easy child who excels, etc.</p>
<p>I think that luck has a tremendous amount to with ‘success’. How many ‘perfect’ applicants can there be to HYP schools? At a certain point, no matter how wonderfully parented, how genetically advanced, how papmpered, loved and trained, a child may not get in. That’s life.
That’s why…in my estimation…a child must follow their dream. Only by doing so will they truly be successful.</p>
<p>In terms of what we did ‘right’. Well, we encouraged reading, risk taking, creativity. We didn’t push them to study things they didn’t like. We allowed them to stay up late working on what they loved. Oh, and we never, ever, ever, let them believe that they would disappoint us. Unconditional love.</p>
<p>How ‘children turn out’ (on a wide variety of measures over the course of their LIFETIME) involves a complex interplay of environment and genes. </p>
<p>I think it’s pointless to attempt to take credit for one dimension of a childs’ life at one point in time. Even if it was useful, we can’t possibly know the asnwer. A million factors play a role and anyone can pick and choose their wild guesses if they so wish.</p>
<p>folks, let me put it this way. Most of the parents come to this forum to help their children get into a college. Some of us actually think the US news ranking is a very decent guide to the overall quality of the schools. It sure beats “the gut feeling of a 17 year old spending 2 hours on campus”. If the ranking does not have a strong following, they will not be doing that year after year. </p>
<p>Look, I am not judging any one here. You want to help your child get into certain school, whatever the school is. If you are successful, I am asking you to summarize as what did you do right. From a big picture point of view. </p>
<p>I said it is not the genes because both children are way smarter than we are.</p>
<p>I agree with this. I didn’t really <em>do</em> much of anything. I sometimes joke that my only duties as a dad are to Drive and Pay - drive the girls where they need to go and pay for it when we get there.</p>
<p>If I can take credit for anything at all, I can say that I didn’t screw it up. I didn’t ruin things with toxic parenting. But the girls themselves did all the work. They earned their own success themselves.</p>
<p>coureur. see, that is exactly what I would like to discuss. Say there are 200 students in the HS classes. If all the parents “did not do any thing”, why some students do better than others? (please do not argue the definition of “better” here).</p>
<p>They all go to the same classes and have the same opportunities available to them. Some kids will have a perfect 4.0 GPA and some will have 2.0. Why? </p>
<p>To me, there got to be some family related factors. What are these factors? What did the parents do right?</p>
<p>I read the thread for your magic but felt, as I’ve been thinking, there’s not much that we parents can do. I won’t take any credit if and when my kids get into a top school however defined. “Let them follow their dreams” could be the best advice.</p>
<p><< Say there are 200 students in the HS classes. If all the parents “did not do any thing”, why some students do better than others? (please do not argue the definition of “better” here).</p>
<p>They all go to the same classes and have the same opportunities available to them. Some kids will have a perfect 4.0 GPA and some will have 2.0. Why? >></p>
<p>hmm…well…some kids are just born smarter. Gifted kids will more likely than not far outperform a mentally handicapped child.</p>
<p>Also, some kids care, some don’t. And guess what, some of the kids who care come from crappy homes, some kids that don’t care come from great homes. I think it’s an inborn quality.</p>
<p>My parents did nothing and I achieve. A girl going to Cornell had parents who did everything, and she achieved. THere are kids with crappy parents who are on drugs, and there are kids with great parents who get arrested…</p>
<p>It’s not on the parents, it’s on the kids. So give your kids some slack and hope for the best. Odds are they’ll turn out fine</p>
<p>“They all go to the same classes and have the same opportunities available to them. Some kids will have a perfect 4.0 GPA and some will have 2.0. Why? >>”</p>
<p>“hmm…well…some kids are just born smarter. Gifted kids will more likely than not far outperform a mentally handicapped child.”</p>
<p>Well, yeah! DUH! [not you rocketlouise]
Genes can’t be ignored as a prime factor, [although not the only one] when asking why some kids do great in school, while others struggle,why some “succeed” and others “fail”, why some kids try hard and others give up easily. Genes are a huge factor in determining how smart a person can be. Genes that determine personality can’t be manipulated by the environment[at least not yet], so for someone who is trained in the sciences to ask this question-
"They all go to the same classes and have the same opportunities available to them. Some kids will have a perfect 4.0 GPA and some will have 2.0. Why?</p>
<p>and if you think you are going to get a legitimate answer that IGNORES the huge part that genetics plays in determining why we as individuals turn out the way we do, is just ignorant or clueless or delusional beyond belief.</p>
<p>'To me, there got to be some family related factors. What are these factors?
here’s a 5 letter answer-
GENES!</p>
<p>“I said it is not the genes because both children are way smarter than we are.”
Well guess what, if you combine 2 smart parents, you are probably going to end up with smart children. Add a more enriched education for those children than you received growing up ,plus better nutrition, more books to read, more mental stimulation via music, the internet, and from being around other smart educated kids and voila! “smarter” children. Their IQ’s may or may not be higher than yours were at their age, but they sure SEEM smarter than you remember being.</p>
<p>Why, in a room of 500, will you find some kids with a 2.0 and others with a 4.0? Impossible to say. I can tell you, with a diegree of certainty, that is does NOT have to do with good or bad parenting. Kids will acheive for the same reason that adults do- because they WANT to.</p>
<p>Why are there millionaires, poor people and those in between? Why isn’t everyone? Why aren’t YOU?</p>
<p>"Most of the parents come to this forum to help their children get into a college. "
Noooo. As an “old timer” on these forums, what I have seen is that “most” parents come to this forum TO FIND OUT WHAT THEY DON’T KNOW about the whole college application process these days. For the most part, they know their children are going to college somewhere, but they don’t know which MIGHT BE the “right” college for THEIR child. Some come with preconceived ideas that having such and such grades, or being a legacy or an athlete means “little Johnny” is a shoe-in at some highly competitive college… They then use the information, perspectives and wisdom gathered here to help their children by pointing them in the “right” direction, supporting them in this process, and helping them make decisions that all can live with.</p>
<p>My D, who is a senior in HS is sitting here reading Conrad’s “Heart of Darkness” and I told her you asked this question, and she said:</p>
<p>“How do you measure success? If someone is happy and has a family, not necessarily out in the world earning lots of money, they can consider themselves successful.”</p>
<p>So I measure success by having a daughter like this.</p>
<p>(I don’t care if she goes to a “T10” as you so quaintly term it. She’s not my performing organ-grinder monkey, for crying out loud.)</p>
<p>No it’s not the genes. Just look at the example I gave earlier in this forum - two kids, different genes, raised up by same parents, look at the result. </p>
<p>Ok there are some cases genes may play a role, but not a big factor.</p>
<p>Haha, this parent forum is so interesting, it’s like my school’s debate team.lol. l’ll go tell my friends to let them debate there. i know which side i’ll stand by.
i like it where there’s debate. i think DadII should consider yourself successful. you can come to my school to start some topics for our debate team… lol :D</p>
<p>In our (quasi-traditional Korean) household, education was a BIG thing. All my grandparents and down have attended some for of college, and for women in pre-modern Korea, that was pretty particular. We weren’t rich by any means, but my mom alwaysalways put money on the side to send my brothers and me to extracurricular academic things. Kumon in elementary school, SAT prep over the summers (since middle school?), JHU CTY/CAA over the summer, and later in high school even JHU pre-college. She also believed in getting us out of the house and giving us experiences, like Word of Life Ranch (a bible camp; since that time though, everyone stopped going to church regularly- haha).</p>
<p>I don’t know how much that really helped, but it did instill in us (or me, at least) the value of education. You hear all these horror stories about Asian parents beating their kids and being super strict, but that was never a part of my life. If any of us stayed up to do homework or study,it was by our own volition. Most of time when I heard my mom commenting on my homework habits, she was telling me to stop and go to bed. What’s most important for me was knowing how important this was to my parents and apparently my future and knowing that they were always behind me on this.</p>
<p>When we were 5ish, my grandfather (who we grew up with) jokingly told us that if got into Harvard, he would buy us any car we wanted. When my older brother got into Johns Hopkins, he got a used Honda Civic. (Our family never had the money to seriously make those type of promises, so the fact that he even got anything was a huge surprise to everyone.) 2 years later, I matriculated at Brown U, and now my brother is confidently applying to colleges with BC, NYU, and Vassar as safeties. We were an immigrant family with no ties to any American Unis.</p>
(Our family never had the money to seriously make those type of promises, so the fact that he even got anything was a huge surprise to everyone.) 2 years later, I matriculated at Brown U, and now my brother is confidently applying to colleges with BC, NYU, and Vassar as safeties. We were an immigrant family with no ties to any American Unis.</p>