<p>I’m not asian but i have a korean piano teacher. when my friends and i take lessons from her, she mostly tell us we suck, unlike my american teacher who always praises me as if i was one of the greatest pianists. but when my korean teacher’s students go to tests and competitions, we get big awards, distinctions, and stuff. i decided to stay with her. even though most of the time she tells me i suck, but at the end i know i don’t suck and i know she pointed out for me for my own benefit. tough love.</p>
<p>well, kind of go with this thread’s theme. you parents go astray anyway. that’s a big flaw in my debate team in the county: people go off topic. but it seems to be okay here.</p>
<p>I’m surprised at how many parents here feel that being supportive includes paying for anything their child is interested in. While my husband and I have made plenty of financial sacrifices for our children it doesn’t extend to allowing them to apply to any college that they are interested in.
Talk about setting them up for disappointment! Most of the top schools offer minimal financial aid. My kids have known for years that they need to seriously consider in-state schools. The reality is that we are a middle class, white family and going into debt at a rate of $30,000 a year per student can’t be justified. Especially when our in-state public universities are in the top five in their fields of study.</p>
<p>It is not true that top schools offer minimal financial aid. For one thing, my two kids did go to top schools and they did get need based aid. AND…right after oldest D graduated from her IVY, the financial aid policies got WAY better at her university and others of its type and we would have even gotten MORE aid had she been there now (she graduated 1 1/2 years ago). She already got very decent aid. Younger D got a mix of need based and merit based aid and it was hefty too. In fact, D2’s school is one of the most expensive universities in the country and she got the best aid package from them than from all the other schools she got into. </p>
<p>In any case, I do understand limiting college options by financial constraints. We did not do that but I can appreciate those who do. We have chosen to find any way possible to make these educations, including grad school, happen for our kids. Just is how we think but I don’t expect others to all do the same when it comes to financial limits for education.</p>
<p>PS, we are also a middle class white family. D1, who went to an Ivy and is now in a well known grad school, which we are funding, had a free ride at state U where she had no intentions of applying as it did not fit her, but was given it as all vals in our state get it. Unlike your situation, our state U did not have EITHER of my kids’ field of study.</p>
<p>I didn’t notice people saying they would “pay for whatever the child was interested in” …but kids have such energy and interest, and lessons for young kids tend to be very inexpensive, and a great way of letting a kid pour him/herself into something and learn more about the world and his/her abilities. It was fun for me to see my kid working at something, becoming more confident because of it, and to see where that something would take her (piano, for instance, was nearly impossible for her but she realized that she loved music, joined the chorus at school, has an immense love of music now that has definitely informed all areas of her life). A year of piano lessons for a kid who loved it but had trouble with it, and still kept working --priceless! And someday I’m going to replace my old lumpy couch too…but that won’t be as much fun.</p>
<p>Soozievt, many white middle class students do not qualify for ANY need based aid. We don’t.</p>
<p>So I agree with Falconmom that financial issues may clearly impact decisions, particularly in this economy!! Just because FAFSA tells us we make enough money to take out loans based on our income, that may not be the best financial decision for our family.</p>
<p>We have a (nonT10) applicant who has been offered very good merit based aid to a few schools that may not have originally received as much consideration as they are now. They were originally the “safety” schools, but now we are not so sure. As a prospective Nursing major, we are all really struggling with the decision.</p>
<p>So maybe the decision is easier for those who get financial aid based on need. (in addition to merit).</p>
<p>Each family situation is different. Even if my kids got some aid, we have hefty loans to pay for the very substantial amount that the aid didn’t cover. We are willing to do that as this is a top priority for us. Again, I fully appreciate those who are not willing to take out debt/loans to finance their kids’ educations.</p>
<p>Also, it is all relative. For us, it is very challenging to pay back the loans that the financial aid did not cover. For someone who did not qualify for any aid, they obviously make more than we do and I understand it is a challenge to pay for college, but the challenge is similar to ours as it is relative. Even if we got a “discount” on the total tuition, we also make less and so paying for the amount we owe (which is still substantial) may be a similar challenge to someone who earns more than us but has to pay more for tuition. Obviously, we don’t have the same income if my kids got some aid and yours do not qualify for any aid. We both may still fit under the “middle class” category.</p>
<p>In any case, my main point to Falconmom is that it is untrue that top schools offer minimal aid. Some schools, like Ivies, have better financial aid than less selective schools.</p>
<p>Falconmom probably was talking about merit aid for those who do not qualify for financial aid.</p>
<p>If that is the case, I totally agree with her. We found that with both our kids. One a T10, and one who is not. The “top schools” are definitely not as generous with merit aid, - with the rare exceptions for some very competitive and or limited scholarships. (which actually sometimes have a need component in fine print.)</p>
<p>It is true that top schools offer minimal merit aid. I assumed she meant financial aid of the need based variety and went on to say that the state schools were a better option. I was saying that top schools offer some good need based aid. But if merit aid is the goal, a top student could qualify for good merit aid at a less selective school and thus state U is not the only financially feasible option (nothing wrong with State U of course).</p>
<p>Soozievt,
Obviously we’re in different financial situations. I’m a self-employed homebuilder. This year’s income doesn’t predict next year’s. (hopefully!) My oldest still laughs at the letter he received from on of the colleges he was admitted to. Page one said that his family’s financial need was set at $32,000. but that all of that need had been met. Yoohoo! Page to outlined how that need would be met…all loans! While it’s impressive to think that your kid is getting a $20,000. scholarship, the reality is that as parents we’re still looking at a $30000. bill. I wrote a check to our state university this semester for $1200. HYP don’t offer merit aid. No need for them to. I’d just rather write may son a check for $100,000
when he starts his first business or buys his first house. His success will be determined by his efforts not the school he graduates from. Not my opinion, but that a long-term study of 6,335 college grads published in 1999 by the National Bureau of Economic Research which found that graduating from a college where entering students have higher SAT scoresa sign of exclusivitydidn’t pay off in higher post-graduation income.</p>
<p>"What matters more, it seems, is graduates’ personal drive. In a surprising twist, a stronger predictor of income is the caliber of the schools that reject you. Researchers found students who applied to several elite schools but didn’t attend thempresumably because many were rejectedare more likely to earn high incomes later than students who actually attended elite schools. In a summary of the findings, the Bureau says that “evidently, students’ motivation, ambition and desire to learn have a much stronger effect on their subsequent success than average academic ability of their classmates.” the National Bureau of Economic Research: "</p>
<p>And sometimes that decision becomes difficult. Has nothing to do with willingness to pay or putting education as a priority. It may may have more to do with how to decide which is a better “value” in the long run…</p>
<p>Put me down for using USNews for data- tuition, school size, admittance rates, and NoT for the “rankings”. ( although i do like the articles)</p>
<p>i know very few people IRL who put much weight to the rankings and fewer still on CC. Students looking at schools for undergrad have different needs than grad school students, but if you want to order a meal based on the dessert, be my guest.
;)</p>
<p>Sorry to get this off topic. Both of our kids are happy, well adjusted and good students. I have to agree with everyone here that genetics matters, parenting matters, environment matters. We still have no idea which matters more. It’s probably different with every child. Certainly we read to our kids from an early age, and had lots of discussions around the dinner table. We encouraged their interests and paid attention to their schooling. Did all of that really matter? Probably, but who knows for sure? Maybe we’re just lucky, but personally, I think it’s more than that.</p>
I think it’s more than luck. you did good things with your kids.
I like the example smulaza gave, even though it’s part of the story.
I’ve always wished I could do an experiment…</p>
<p>We have a neighborhood girl in 8th grade, gets Ds and Fs from everything in school except for gym, music. I’ve known her since she was born and still spend quite some time with her nowadays. a very bright kid. I know her family well, so I know where those Ds and Fs come from. she had strong desire to learn. when she was 6, she came to play with my D. and wanted ME to take her to ski, to play tennis, and to take piano lessons. I didn’t because I didn’t want to take over the role of a parent. Her parents love her in their way. They take good care of her daily needs except for education. they wanted her to do well but don’t want to help and don’t want her to take away the parents TV time. she gets all the fancy toys my kids don’t get. </p>
<p>In her case, I can be sure that if she was adopted by someone like cc parents here, (even by me), she would be very different. In her case, it is definitely not genes.</p>
<p>I would attribute my first three kids success to their innate desire to achieve. They really did appear to have it from the time they were very young. As parents we dropped whatever we were doing to get them where they needed to go or wanted to be. This included picking them up at their out of town highschool and bringing them to the community college for classes, waiting for them and then bringing them to music or whatever else they were involved in. We did this with all four kids and it was alot of work but things turn out differently with all kids, even in the same family. The only one of my kids who were not dual enrolled was my last child but she also had alot of one on one study time at home.</p>
<p>What did my parents do right? They listened when I said that I could handle it and that they should leave me alone. Starting in late elementary school, they had virtually nothing to do with my academic life, all the way through the college admissions process. And I got into Stanford. So, parents, here’s a lesson: if your kid is capable and driven, just stay out of the way.</p>
Occasionally, however, they can be. It really depends on one’s scores and location. At very good public or private schools, where a large number of students are accepted to the Ivies, those top students may find that the very top LACs can be seen as safeties; having viewed Naviance for some of these schools, it seemed that these schools accept almost everyone from my high school above a certain GPA and SAT score. (Additionally, almost nothing in college admissions is 100% guaranteed until you’re accepted, have a likely letter, or are part of a program like Texas’, where I understand the top 10% are guaranteed admission into a public Texas university, so this is about as close as one can get to a safety…in this range, the only danger is being waitlisted for being “too good.”)</p>
No. They did not stay out of the way. examples:</p>
<p>Person A, wants to learn violin, mother takes her; wants to learn movie making, father gets her software and played movies with her. wants to run track, parents signed her up in a team…</p>
<p>Person B:wants to learn violin, mother says I don’t have time nor money to take you to an instructor;
wants to do movie, father says I know nothing about it. wants to run track, parents say then we have to take you and pick you up.</p>
<p>What difference do the parents make?
appreciate your parents, not by just “staying out of your way”, but by supporting you.</p>