I know calculating your chances based on your GPA is incredibly inaccurate, but I still really want to know what others think my chances are of getting into Harvard are. It’s always been a life dream of mine to get into this prestigious school, and while I have many backup schools in mind, I still want to try to reach for the best.
-I am a 9th grader at a fairly large high school (2000+ students) and I have a 4.0 GPA.
-I have made a 26 on my ACT (it’s low because I didn’t study and it was my first time taking it). However, I plan on taking both the SAT and ACT again in March (and I plan to study this time, of course).
-I will have taken these AP classes by the time I finish High School (on my current trajectory): AP World History, AP US History, AP English 10-12, AP Calculus AB, AP Physics, and AP Psychology.
-I will additionally have taken these electives: Band (9-12), Chinese, Journalism, and several different health classes. (I am a mediocre Trumpet player currently, but I have been steadily improving.)
-I have been an avid member of the Student Council, being voted both the Secretary and Treasurer
on separate occasions.
-I constantly volunteer for both my school and the community.
-If everything goes according to plan, I will be a member of 17 different clubs throughout high school.
-Additionally, I will have founded 5 different clubs by the end of high school (several of which I already have the details completely worked out).
-I will have Highest Distinguished Honors (by completed trajectory).
While a lot of this has yet to happen, I am confident the majority of it will come to pass as originally planned. Do you think I could make it into Harvard? Do you have any suggestions?
Why would you take the ACT in 9th grade? Some top schools want to see all scores… don’t keep retaking. Wait until your junior year when you have had more high school coursework and then study & take it.
Stop joining and starting clubs. School clubs are not a great path to admissions to top schools. You should read “How To Be a High School Superstar” by Cal Newport – you really don’t understand what top colleges are looking for.
Your chances will be about 5% in the end… the talent pool is deep and large. Worry more about developing yourself as a complete, interesting, accomplished person. Not about getting into one school. “Life dreams” of 9th graders that focus on one school are silly.
Concur. That whole “club founder” thing is a cliche and an eye roller for adults.
17 clubs? That alone would look really bad. This plan is likely a recipe for failure.
The best thing the OP could do would be to scrap his/her plan, forget about Harvard for at least 2 years, figure out what really interests him/her, and invest heavily in those things for their own sake. Apply sideways, not head-on.
“I will be a member of 17 different clubs throughout high school”
This makes you seem incredibly shallow, unable to make commitments, or even burdened with such poor social skills that no one wants you around after a few minutes. Not what any university is looking for.
Your 18th extracurricular activity could be starting and joining clubs.
Seriously though, your “plan” is the quickest path to rejection I can think of. If I were an admissions officer I’d think that your taking of the ACT in 9th grade and joining a million clubs means that you’re only doing thing that you think will get you into a top college (and I’d be right). There is no way you could be a meaningful contributor to 17 different activities let alone the five that you founded.
Pick a few things at school and do them well by having a real impact. Find something you love to do outside of school and hopefully you’ll take it to a level few others have.
Btw, the Common App only lets you list 10 activities which would include sports, volunteering, internships, summer courses, jobs, tutoring, etc, all in addition to any clubs you participated in.
@Theneuro:: After reading this article, you might want to re-consider your approach: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/marjorie-hansen-shaevitz/extra-curricular-activities-college-admission_b_3040217.html
Thanks, everyone, for the advice. I was hoping for some more supportive replies, but I suppose constructive criticism works just as well. As far as the clubs go, they are all things I have a genuine interest in. As far as the taking the ACT in 9th grade, I took it so early in order to maximize the number of times I can take it, as well as my chances of getting a perfect score.
As far as the club founding thing goes, do you really think it is that cliche? I have heard several times it looks great to colleges and it seems like an amazing leadership opportunity.
As far as my interests are, I am quite interested in health, and hope on one day becoming a neurosurgeon. Many of the classes and clubs I am in/ will take focus directly on medicine and health, which I hope will help prepare me for some of the classes I will take.
“Club founding” is not only a cliche, but it can also be a red flag for an Admissions Officer, especially when a student claims to have founded multiple clubs. Watch this ex-Stanford Admissions officer look over a student’s EC list and immediately understand that something is wrong: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96XL8vBBB7o
Colleges are looking for student’s who have the drive, energy and stamina to make a long term commitment – measured in years, not months – to something beyond academics. And it doesn’t matter if they “founded” a club or not. For example: my daughter who graduated from Harvard had two extracurricular’s on her list: theater and cheerleading, but they involved a serious commitment (15 to 20 hours a week combined) and included attending the American Academy of Dramatic Arts, as well as appearing in lead roles in 4 high school productions a year. My son, who graduated from Yale, also had two extracurriculars on his list: baseball (non-recruit) and computer science – but he played baseball year round for fours years participating in a 22-game Fall season, 16-game Indoor Winter season, a 36-game Spring season and a 40+ game summer travel season.
And as far as leadership goes: when colleges say they are interested in leaders, many students assume they are looking for captains of athletic teams, or presidents of student councils, or editors of newspapers or founders of clubs. And sometimes they are. But more often than not, as colleges are academic institutions, they are looking for leaders in the classroom. They are looking for students who not only contribute to the classroom conversation, but dynamically lead the discussion. They are looking for students who constantly raise their hands and have thoughtful opinions. Students who are respected by their teachers and peers. Colleges are looking for your teachers to confirm your leadership abilities in their recommendation letters with concrete examples. It’s not about leadership in EC’s, it’s leadership in the classroom that counts! Think about it: Every admitted student to Harvard (and Yale, Princeton, Stanford, MIT et al) cannot claim to be the captain of a team, or the president of a student council, or the founder of a club, but every single student WILL have been a leader in their high school classroom.
Former Yale admissions dean, Mr. Brenzel, seems to also see it as a red flag. He told the NY Times:
[quote]
What concerns me...are the number of high achieving students whose lives are governed by what they, or perhaps more often their parents, imagine is going to improve in some slight way their chances of admission to this or that particular school. Exploration and growth serve a student best for the long run, both in education and life, not the construction of a perfect resume. We try as best we can to distinguish the one from the other.
The thing we are looking for outside the classroom is not a series of check boxes on a resume; we’re looking instead for a high level of engagement or leadership in whatever it is that the student cares about most.
A significant number of students make the common mistake of spreading themselves too thinly in a resume-building exercise.
[/quote]
You have a “genuine interest” in 17 different things? Also, even after reading the opinion of multiple veteran posters, many of whom have kids at Harvard, you question again whether starting a bunch of clubs doesn’t “look great” to admissions officers? Which part of the comments, articles and quotes that were posted don’t you believe? Harvard announced today that they received over 39,000 apps this year! How hard is it for any of those applicants to sign up for clubs at their HS? Even starting clubs at some high schools is not very difficult, and five is over the top way too much. You don’t seem to grasp what makes a successful applicant to Harvard. It’s quality over quantity and being someone Harvard feels that they just have to have on their campus, not visa versa.
Your approach to taking the ACT as many times as possible is also flawed. Many schools (Penn, Cornell, Stanford, Yale etc) require the complete testing history of either the SAT or ACT (some require both). They will see that you are a serial test taker and club joiner and I can’t imagine it will sit well with them. You can take practice tests to your heart’s content but for pete’s sake, don’t keep taking official tests after tests until you’re fully prepared and ready to submit the score one day.
The advice we are giving you is “supportive”. We are trying to keep you from making some very poor choices. In any event, you have to make your own decisions and if you think our advice is not worth listening to you’re obviously free to pursue whatever path you choose. Good luck with everything.
@theneuro, no one is particularly interesting in bashing you, but it’s really important to get across that you are approaching this in a way that pretty much guarantees failure. As @Falcon1 notes, the advice we are giving you is “supportive”. Staying on your current path is likely to lead to exhaustion, frustration, and an unsuccessful outcome. The good news is that you are only in 9th grade, and there is plenty of time to change to a more productive approach. The people who are giving you this advice have attended, or have children who have attended, and have often helped others gain admission to many of the top schools in the country.
For another good read on the perils of the “laundry list” approach to ECs, you might try these:
http://calnewport.com/blog/2008/03/14/debunking-the-laundry-list-fallacy-why-doing-less-is-more-impressive/
http://calnewport.com/blog/2008/04/18/how-to-become-a-zen-valedictorian-decreasing-your-stress-without-decreasing-your-ambition/
Once again, thanks for the replies. I know everyone is focusing in on how many clubs I am/ will take, but if it does look bad, I will just not mention it in my application. That doesn’t change the fact that I would still like to be a part of those clubs. (Also, a significant portion of those “clubs” are actually honors programs, such as National Honor Society and HOSA.)
So, besides the ACT and the clubs, how do you think I’m doing? I really want an overall review, rather than just focusing on how absurd you think the club thing is.
^ It’s impossible to chance anyone for Harvard, much less a 9th grader. It’s too far away, and without clear grades and test scores it’s just crystal ball gazing. But in general, I think you’re trying too hard, and way too fixated on Harvard. As I said above, I think your best strategy would be to forget about it for 2 years, and invest your energy and focus on the things that matter to you, for their own sake. Good luck!
I just want to say that I think it is really great that you would continue those activities even if they don’t help with Harvard or cannot be listed. This is the healthiest thing you have written and actually shows the kind of character that some colleges value. If you love being in 17 activities, and love leading things in your school, continue!! When you are a little older, they may shuffle around a bit and there may be a few that emerge as priorities.
You could also volunteer in a hospital, get an EMT license during high school, volunteer at a neuro rehab, other things if they interest you.
The main thing is, please don’t worry about getting into Harvard when you are in 9th grade. Enjoy your life, make friends, do what interests you, work hard and things will work out no matter where you end up.
I wrote in another thread that having a long time “dream” of going to Harvard is like wanting to be a firefighter when you are a kid. In a couple of years, you will be older and wiser and have some really mature criteria for where to apply, which may or may not include Harvard.
Harvard is a wonderful place but it is just a school and there are a lot of really great ones out there.
Leaving out the clubs and the ACT discussion, you look like a fairly standard applicant. Harvard will select 1 out of every 20 applicants they review this year. When the time comes to apply, you need to be able to answer why they should select you and not one of the other 19 they are looking at. As you can probably imagine, having good grades and test scores are necessary but not sufficient conditions for acceptance. You’ll need to stand out in other ways.
As noble as it sounds that you would still like to be a part of the 17 clubs, it is not practical since there aren’t enough hours in the day to do so and still be able to do one or two specific things at a very high level. Stop focusing on Harvard. Get great grades, be the kind of person that your teachers are honored and excited to write a recommendation for, and as I said before, find something that you really love doing and do it a whole lot better than others.
When the time comes for you to apply to colleges, you should have some pretty good schools on your list if you do the above. Targeting one specific school like Harvard (that will likely have a 4% acceptance rate in 3 years) is not a wise idea. For one thing, well over half the class is hooked in one way or another so the actual spots available are far less than you imagine.
FWIW: I recently posted this on another thread, but I think Harvard looks for the exact same thing – which is why it’s impossible to predict a student’s chances without reading their essays, teacher recommendations, guidance counselor’s Secondary School Report (SSR) and interview report.
I suppose that is why student’s who have perfect GPA’s with perfect test scores, with 17-18 extracurricular activities are rejected. They lack the “personality” or “character” traits that Admissions is looking for.
I’m always baffled and a little saddened by posts like this because the “laundry list” approach is so contrary to what Harvard and it’s peers (like MIT and Yale) seem to have been preaching to applicants for years.
Why does it still persist and what drives it? Peers? Parents? Pop Culture? Misinformed GC’s and teachers?
Apologies to the OP for the meta-discussion.
I have met a lot of the kids that go to Harvard and I don’t think they look for “old souls”. It seems to me that they look for people who will be leaders in the future. That doesn’t always mean they want presidents of clubs. They want to produce leaders in biology and psychology and the arts e.g. I think if I told my kid that Yale was full of old souls their comment would be “sure glad I don’t go there” They would also much rather go to concerts with their friends than dinner parties