What DON'T You Like About Fordham?

Colleges and Universities A-Z Fordham University
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<p>*" WOWWWWW!!!! Very IGNORANT! Im not going to comment on that.
And I know many lower-income European students who attend Fordham part of HEOP. Contact Biswa at Fordham and he will tell you that all of his students are not MINORITIES. " *</p>

<p>Ignorant? Uh, it's true. I, myself, am a black guy; the last time I checked, that constituted as a minority. I've lived in New York City all my life, and I've witnessed first-hand poverty all around me, and 95% of the time, these people fall under that black/Hispanic demographic. Also, the stats that I provided you show that correlation. Whether or not you know "many lower income European students" doesn't take away from that.</p>

<p>" So at these sessions you saw a few minority students who represent HEOP and you assume that all are minorities? "</p>

<p>I don't know how many times I'll have to reiterate my point, but: black/hispanic communities are those most afflicted by low-income problems in New York City. So, it makes sense that programs such as HEOP are bound to get minority students with their income cutoff. I don't see what's so hard to understand about that.</p>

<p>" I'm not going to waste my time writing to you, you seem very judgmental and quite frankly you wouldn't fit in the Bronx with that mentality. "</p>

<p>You know what? You're TOTALLY right. I don't know how I would fit in the Bronx. Gosh, it must be a miracle that I've lived in the Bronx for 17 years, attended school here for all my life, and have made numerous friends here. And you call me judgmental? You're the one who is failing to show a lack of perspective, and I think your "disgust" is just a cop-out.</p>

<p>Oh, by the way, I live 25 minutes from Fordham, too. </p>

<p>Once again, I have no problems with Fordham as an academic institution. I was just commenting on that one, particular aspect.</p>

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<p>Umm, the dozen or so Fordham students I know are white and very much upper middle class in terms of socio-econs. Their parents could come up with the money for boarding, but because they want to save on costs and in some cases the kids intend to go to law, med school later, which means more educational costs. It is a deliberate decision. </p>

<p>I am well aware that a number of kids who commute have no choice in the matter, and that many of them would benefit from living away from home. A number of those kids could have gone away for college, as they were eligible for generous financial aid packages but chose to stay home and commute to Fordham. It came down to a choice of going away for college or commuting to Fordham for about the same amount of money. Fordham did not give them enough to board there; it is a very expensive school, but for them to have been accepted there would have meant they were eligible for enough aid to board at the SUNYs or other lowere sticker priced colleges.</p>

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<p>Coffee, Fordham is in the area of the Bronx that is the most visited by tourists as the Botanical Gardens and Zoo are right there. Arthur Avenue is also a popular visiting site, and a Little Italy of sorts. There are 2 Metro North train lines very close to campus, subway, bus and Fordham runs its own shuttle service to midtown and Lincoln Center. As with any city campus, you do have to be cautious, but Rose Hill is considered a safe haven in the Bronx. I don't have any problem walking around the campus, but would want more info about walking outside of it. I have been around the campuses of UChicago, Johns Hopkins, Case, USC, Pitt, CMU, Penn, Columbia, and feel about the same way about the areas around them. That about half of the upper classmen live off campus, and half of them have their own places is rather telling. </p>

<p>As I have been saying, given its selectivity, its reputation, its academic offerings, professors, location to NYC, attractive campus, sports teams, theatre offerings, merit awards, its a hard school to beat. I know because I looked.</p>

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<p>x90 Please Keep your comments to yourself!</p>

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<p>question--> is it a fact that HEOP students must commute to F.U? cuz i know some HEOP students who didnt get housing the 1st year..got it the second year</p>

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<p>No HEOP students Do Not need to commute to Fordham put tend to because they are city students close to the campus. Also, HEOP student's parents earn less and so they many times are unable to afford the room and board. If, however, HEOP students still do want to attend with room and board they are able to do so.</p>

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<p>thanks abbyg for answering question..i appreciate it = ]</p>

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<p>Abby, do you know about what % of local students are asked to commute? Also what % of HEOP students do not get housing the first year? Is it easier to get housing second year for those kids who did not get it the second year?</p>

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<p>Most commuters commute because they want to and cannot afford housing. I am a resident of Queens and wasn't denied housing when I applied as a freshman nor were dozens of my other friends/acquaintances who are from the New York area). Fordham does not discriminate when assigning housing and they are not any different from other schools. Give me an instance or case of Fordham denying a student housing based on racial factors (you don't make any sense). There is no lump sump paid to commuters; there is a commuter reimbursement of $6,000 a year provided by the MTA to cover expenses of commuting. Do not compare the percentages of freshman that have housing at Fordham with that of the other schools that you mention. These percentages are misleading because when compared with these schools, Fordham takes in more students from lower socio-economic backgrounds and these students cannot afford housing. I agree with you that Fordham should have solved the limited housing situation a long time ago since many of the dormitories are cramped and filled to capacity. However, Fordham is not as well endowed as the other schools that you mention. It is what it is; Fordham has a certain (limited) amount of resources that it cannot do anything about, I don't understand how you are questioning their integrity. However, in recent years, Fordham has raised record money and have nearly double their endowment over the past 5 years and are beginning to spend money. They finished building a very large parking lot last year and are now building new freshman dormitories/student center. </p>

<p>Your logic seems very skewed and judging by the nature and tone of these comments, they obviously seem to be coming from a student who is very much dissatisfied with his/her experience and consequently venting out his/her frustration. </p>

<p>I was part of the graduating class of 2008 and I was satisfied with my experience, so you don't have to "bemoan" listening to comments from another parent. I came in with AP classes myself and graduated a year early and I do not agree with your comments about Fordham "not being an academic school." You cannot even measure such a categorization quantitatively and even if you could, you did not go around surveying every student. Granted, there are students who treat their education as means of getting a job or internship, but that does not mean that they do not want to learn. It would be impossible for Fordham to make such promises and they don't. What Fordham states to its prospective students, and rightfully so, is that they aim to give a "complete" education to its students. If Fordham treated themselves as a means of attaining other goals such as a job/internship first and foremost rather than an education, then they would not have the curriculum they do have (three English classes, two Theology classes, two Phil classes, two History classes, etc). Rather, they would condense the curriculum as many other schools like NYU do and allow their students to start taking classes from their respective majors earlier, helping them explore their careers at an earlier time. </p>

<p>The comments that you are making are very vague and idealistic and you seem to be categorizing and generalizing everything. You will find a variety of students with mixed interests and different background that form their own niches at any institution. Also, every major is different. The point that you make about increased class sizes is inaccurate since you generalized it. I was an accounting student and did not have more than 15 to 20 students in those classes. My brother is a Math Major and never had more than 10 students in his class. It really depends what major you are but you would agree with me, that the class sizes are still very small in comparison to other universities. I have not had a single class with more than 35 students, and probably 80% of my classes were 25 and students and less.</p>

<p>My advice to you: transfer if you are not happy rather than deterring other interested students from coming. I have no problems with healthy criticism but obviously, you have NOTHING positive to say about the school.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
Most commuters commute because they want to and cannot afford housing. I am a resident of Queens and wasn't denied housing when I applied as a freshman nor were dozens of my other friends/acquaintances who are from the New York area). Fordham does not discriminate when assigning housing and they are not any different from other schools. Give me an instance or case of Fordham denying a student housing based on racial factors (you don't make any sense).

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I take issue with the assumption that commuters want to commute. Fordham should encourage all freshmen to live on campus. Commuting, as it is at almost all colleges of Fordham's caliber, the exception instead of the norm. And your explanation that some can't afford housing doesn't justify Fordham not paying for them to live on campus. That's what grants are for.</p>

<p>
[quote]
I agree with you that Fordham should have solved the limited housing situation a long time ago since many of the dormitories are cramped and filled to capacity. However, Fordham is not as well endowed as the other schools that you mention. It is what it is; Fordham has a certain (limited) amount of resources that it cannot do anything about, I don't understand how you are questioning their integrity.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Your argument is not supported by factual evidence. Take Villanova: They house 98% of their freshmen. According to CollegeBoard, they have almost exactly the same number of undergraduates (about 7,500), the same acceptance rate too. They are very similar except for the representation of certain minorities—and thus, one could realize, certain socioeconomic backgrounds—which you invoke as justification for commuting. That's awfully weird, since Fordham has about 178 million more dollars in endowment. Money is not an issue; a student's family income shouldn't be either.</p>

<p>
[quote]
The point that you make about increased class sizes is inaccurate since you generalized it. I was an accounting student and did not have more than 15 to 20 students in those classes. My brother is a Math Major and never had more than 10 students in his class. It really depends what major you are but you would agree with me, that the class sizes are still very small in comparison to other universities.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I agree with you to a small extent; Fordham does make a concerted effort to minimize class size. Yet there's also this:</p>

<p>The</a> Ram - Conflict Over Class Size</p>

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<p>Fordham may be unique in its New York setting. What I mean by that is that because of the 5 boroughs and excellent public transportation in subway system, Metro North, etc. they can offer admission to kids who are very local but whom they dont have dorm space for. Everyone knows that college admissions is less about "constructing a class" and classroom size than it is about dorm room space. Fordham is constructing more dorms as we speak. But there is also limited space for more dorms without seriously changing the campus landscape and beauty. They dont want a concrete jungle. So commuters should consider themselves lucky. If they want to live on campus and dont want to commute they can elect to go elsewhere. Frankly commuter students have an advantage: no dorm drama, better sleep habits, and perhaps a more quiet place to study. It seems to me commuters should be healthier and have better grades. The single biggest reason kids drop out of school at ANY college is dorm drama and partying. Its not because they dont have the intellect. Its because of lifestyle habits in the dorms. Partying, no sleep, noise, freaky room mates, and lack of privacy. </p>

<p>Villanova and Fordham are peer schools. Nova may have more space available for dorms and built them....or its history was always as a residential college. Fordham always had a commuter background...but that is changing. As it reaches out to students in other regions, the demand for dorm space is increasing. </p>

<p>I know kids at Duke and UVa who spend a lot of time complaining about what is wrong with their school or campus. Its part of growing up, learning to deal with adversity or inconveniences....people should be part of the solution, not part of the problem. If you want something changed, form a group and try and get it changed...and work within the system. If you are unsuccessful.....dont grumble....keep trying....and maybe someone in a later class will get it done eventually. </p>

<p>But in any event, be grateful...you are all at a great school and if you do well and remain a positive person, you will have great job offers or great graduate school offers awaiting you upon graduation.</p>

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<p>"Its part of growing up, learning to deal with adversity or inconveniences....people should be part of the solution, not part of the problem."</p>

<p>Well said. And i totally agree with you about commuters having better study habits and sleeping patterns bc they avoid the whole dorm drama. Too many people place too much emphasis on campus life when they talk about college. College is slowly becoming less of an academic place and more of a camping ground. You primarily go to college to get an education. If you want to have some experience living independently from your parents, save your parents a lot of money and stress and rent yourself an apartment somewhere, then you can have a crash coarse on independence.<br>
If you choose to go to college, realize it is a privilege, and that huge sacrifices are being made so that you can learn something.</p>

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<p>First of all monorail, I don't understand why you feel that Fordham has this deep (moral) obligation to encourage all freshmen to dorm. Those who want to socialize will find ways to do so regardless of whether they dorm or not. And then there are those who have the privilege of dorming and have all resources available to them but they choose not to use them because they do not like socializing or just want to be left to themselves. Whether one dorms or not, one still always form cliques based on one's personality, not surroundings/situation. I think a commuter, at least at Fordham, can just as easily have a social life as a dormer. And I'll tell you why. If Fordham was located in Greenwich Village like NYU, that would have been a different story, because then you can argue that not dorming takes away from the NYU experience, given its amazing location. Fordham's idea of social life is going to local bars in the Bronx. If a commuter wants to have fun, he/she can just as easily take a subway ride to Manhattan as a Fordham student takes a ram van ride into Manhattan. </p>

<p>Your comparison with Nova:</p>

<p>How can you compare Nova (PA) with Fordham (NY)? NY has one of the most sophistic transportation system in the world. I would assume you'd need a car to commute to Nova. All parts of the 5 boroughs are accessible to Fordham by train and those who come out of the state virtually have no option but to dorm.</p>

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<p>If a student is not financially well-to-do, he/she would not want to be forced to stay on campus if Fordham is like a 20 minute subway ride away. In fact, I'd be furious if I received grants to help me dorm; I'd rather use them towards my tuition and not have to pay anything for it. Many students actually feel dorming at Fordham takes away from their social life since it confines them, which is why many students keep a car. I'm sorry but your ideas are just too idealistic, or should i say unrealistic. Fordham does not have that big of a campus to be able to shelter everyone - that's just the way it is and they can afford to get away with it due to being located in NY. I would also like to reiterate that Fordham is doing its best and this is why they are building new dormitories. Every school has its problems and I'm not saying that we're flawless; if we were, we would not have been ranked 67. You chose to come to Fordham and you should make the most of it by taking the positives away and not dwelling on the negatives. If not, try transferring or else you will make yourself miserable (just a friendly advice).</p>

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<p>algoreCousin, you made some great points.</p>

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<p>starbury...thanks bro. Ignore monorail. He/she has already left Fordham and just likes picking at Fordham for some reason, which I dont understand. No school is going to be a perfect experience for 100% of the kids. I know kids at a lot of schools who are unhappy for various reasons, but often they fail to look in the mirror and realize it had to do with their own baggage or expectations or inability to adapt. No school wants its students to be unhappy. Is there room for improvement? Of course there is. I met a woman (a minority at that) who was an administrator at a PRESTIGIOUS LAC who earned her undergrad degree at Harvard. She was still ranting about Harvard years later. It can happen anywhere.</p>

<p>Your points starbury are very well taken. My kid is at Fordham and came in with a BUNCH of AP courses and we are anxious to see how it all plays out.....though I will likely insist on my kid staying the four years as I believe that is the best route to take and his/her interests are broad enough to take in a double major. </p>

<p>Life is not a panacea either, nor any job. If you start working for that "dream job" you may become very disillusioned to find out stuff that is going on, how things work behind the curtains. Part of life is learning to deal with adversity, with questionable situations, or with people who are come from different backgrounds and ideals. Nobody promised anyone a rose garden. The people who advance the quickest in the real world are people who are problem SOLVERS, not problem makers. Business likes people who come in with a positive attitude and think of solutions to problems....'challenges' as we call them. Not whiners and complainers. Also, when you leave a job its very unprofessional to start throwing rocks or rotten eggs at your former employer. Its a very small world out there. So learning to either accept the situation at college or move along gracefully is an important lesson for students. </p>

<p>I once knew a girl who had a wicked temper and a road rage problem. She once flipped someone off at an intersection who cut in front of her. She applied for a job about 6 months later and to her shock and surprise, the interviewer was THAT PERSON she had flipped off and they remembered the situation. It was very awkward to say the least. She did NOT get the job.</p>

<p>Starbury: Congratulations on your recent graduation! I wish you very well in your career or continued studies. </p>

<p>Fordham is a great school and kids should be grateful they have an opportunity to go there. Just yesterday on Hardball with Chris Matthews, Pat Buchanan (a Georgetown graduate) was saying nice things about Fordham University...much to Matthews irritation! LOL.</p>

<p>I know someone from Iowa State who earned a degree in Russian and advanced in the State Department very high. Do you think Iowa State is a perfect school without problems? </p>

<p>We should all be working (parents, students, alumns) towards making Fordham a better school and bringing in top talent and helping Fordham with fund raising to improve its facilities. It will never completely shed its commuter students nor should it. Fordham proudly accepts students with a lower socio economic background to mix into the class with kids from uber wealth on Long Island and New Jersey and Connecticut (as well as far away states). That is a good thing. Its part of the experience: mixing in with people of different backgrounds and cultures. I am no bleeding heart liberal, mind you, but I see a high value in bringing in local kids from poor neighborhoods in the New York area, as Fordham has done for years, to great acclaim and success. Did Denzel Washington come from money? I dont think so. </p>

<p>I live several states away. Just the other day I was at a car dealer for servicing and an old man saw my Fordham Rams hat. He lit up like a christmas tree and in a very strong New York accent remarked, "Not many people know Fordham. Did you go there?" I told him my kid is there now and I proudly wear the cap. He was tickled pink. </p>

<p>Congrats again and good luck.</p>

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<p>^ I saw that too! he said something like the "Fordham students are graduated to keep the Harvard students in check" .</p>

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<p>We visited Villanova and Fordham. There is far more diversity at Fordham. Although lack of facilities is a reason that housing is not available for all students, there are also a number of commuters who chose to commute. I personally know at least a dozen of them. Their families are happy to save the money and get the $6000 annual Metro grant that commuters get, but these kids do not qualify for financial aid, so are not considered among the "needy". They are from middle class families that could painfully pay the entire bill, or try to whittle it down so they do not take out as many loans, or be as short on funds during college years. By getting the commuter breakfast, bagging a lunch, getting the Metro grant, buying used books from students or internet and working part time, these kids can take a good $12-20K off the COA of going to Fordham.</p>

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<p>1.</p>

<p>There's something of a consensus that commuting is, for a plethora of reasons, and for certain students, a good thing. I don't contest this. My only problem with the current situation at Fordham, right now, is that what is called a "residential college" is only residential for a privileged majority—a fact corroborated by almost every single poster who said anything about socioeconomic factors, family income or geography. I'm not saying that commuting necessarily a bad thing; I'm saying that, at least at Fordham, it's an unnecessary and divisive marker of social status.</p>

<p>2.</p>

<p>There's another consensus that I'm picking on Fordham, because I'm bitter; that I'm annoying, because I complain about several deficiencies; and that I'm idealistic or perhaps disillusioned. I've been told both in this public forum and in private messages that airing my problems with Fordham is immature and cowardly.</p>

<p>There's a lot of things I'd like to say to this, but I think the most important one is this: Fordham is not a person. It is not a job, nor an employer. (Of course, it is occasionally, but that's not the point of its existence, nor the locus of certain flaws.) Fordham does not have feelings that can be hurt. Fordham is not unassailable; no college or university is any of these things.</p>

<p>Fordham is a product; it's a business. The student is a paying customer for a brand. The moment one's emotional currency in a collegiate institution gains hold of one's ability to see problems, or understand where someone else is coming from—to empathize, not necessarily agree with—is the moment that all meaningful discourse is lost.</p>

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<p>Monorail, that is one way of viewing a college. There are others. It can be a home for 4 years. Even for commuters. Except for those schools that can meet 100% of need without heavy loans, you are not going to get many students in the lower income brackets. You can take a peek at that info by seeing how many kids eligible for Pell grants the various colleges have. Fordham can offer neighboring students a little bit more by offering them the commuting option. This option is for families that may not qualify for financial aid, kids who are not merit money material, that can take a little bit off of the cost of going to a pretty danged good private school. </p>

<p>In my book, Fordham is a very good admissions deal.</p>