<p>lesdiablesbleus does sound like they have some anger issues towards MI - perhaps denied admission at some point?</p>
<p>Blue devil, ever heard of borderline personality disorder? It’s characterized by black and white thinking…and paranoia that everyone is lying to you…</p>
<p>And yes, there are kids who turn down HYPSM for Michigan. Some of them are on this very board!</p>
<p>I agree with lesdiablesbleus. It would be difficult to turn down HYPSM to attend Michigan. It’s much easier to turn down a school like Duke.</p>
<p>“Wow. Out of 8,000 undergrads currently enrolled at Michigan that graduated with 4.0 uneighed GPAs, 1400+ SAT scores or 32+ ACT scores, not a single one of them was admitted into HYPSM? What are the odds?! LOL!”</p>
<p>I can’t speak for everyone, but I think a large of instate kids who would have had a realistic chance of getting into HYPSM but go to Michigan, just didn’t apply to HYPSM because they knew they just wanted to go to Michigan. I imagine OOSers probably would have gone to HYPSM over Michigan if possibly in pretty much any case. </p>
<p>I don’t think either of those statements says anything against your point though.</p>
<p>chrisscollege, Rutgers-New Brunswick has nearly 28,000 undergrad students.</p>
<p>lesdiableusbleus, I don’t know what your vendetta against University of MIchigan is. Either you got rejected ir you were or a complete ****** in High School or you’re just a hater. Personally, I turned down Princeton after being pulled off it’s waiting list last year. The decision was tough, but I have to say that I couldn’t be happier in any other place other than Michigan right now. I’m on a full scholarship, have great friends, secured a fine internship for a freshman. Yeah, I’m in the honors program and several of my hall mates got into Ivies and Privates but turned them down for Michigan. I suggest you get your facts right before you comment on anything related to Michigan. Your disregard for Michigan is stupid and I guess you just don’t have a firm grip on reality do you. Michigan is better than JHU for disciplines other than Pre-Med, better than Duke for everything, better than G’town for everything, better than Upenn for everything but business. Of course HYPSM, do tend to have an advantage over Michigan merely for a bigger brand name. But "d rather be with a group of nice , pleasant people over a bunch of stuck-up , rich , drug-addicted losers in those institutions.</p>
<p>Maryland has over 36,000 students and Penn State has over 44,000 students. But I agree that the Midwest has far more large universities than the East Coast. 9 of the Big 10 universities have over 35,000 students.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Hahaha</p>
<p>This Duke kid is a joke. Kid needs to find something better to do with his life than go on other message boards and trash schools. Or maybe the person he is makes him incapable of finding a life?</p>
<p>
Umm…</p>
<p>PRE-PROFESSIONAL PLACEMENT (top law/business/medical schools)
<a href=“WSJ in Higher Education | Trusted News & Real-World Insights”>WSJ in Higher Education | Trusted News & Real-World Insights;
Duke: 8.61% (#6)
Michigan: 2.73% (#30)</p>
<p>FELLOWSHIP PRODUCTION (Rhodes+Marshall+Truman+Goldwater+Udall)
<a href=“http://www.ksu.ksu.edu/media/achievements/scholarstop10of5.pdf[/url]”>http://www.ksu.ksu.edu/media/achievements/scholarstop10of5.pdf</a>
Duke: 136 scholars
Michigan: who knows?, not top 10</p>
<p>
I have no problem with Michigan. I actually like Michigan kids a lot…just not the ones on this site besides you and bearcats. I think a lot of your posts are spot on actually and that you’re one of the more intelligent posters on this subforum.</p>
<p>None of my Michigan friends at the bank that I work at have any pretensions that they go to a school that rivals the non-HYP ivies or anything like that. They’re usually humble, down to earth and social people who could care less about where their school is ranked. They love Michigan and they are realistic about the fact that it’s a top 25 school.</p>
<p>Posters like rjk however are ignorant and force users to admit that Michigan is on par with Columbia, Duke, Cornell, etc. for no reason.</p>
<p>lesdiablebleus, there is a logical and simple reason why Duke places a higher percentage of students into top professional programs. Michigan is not as preprofessional as Duke. Michigan has a lot of students enrolled in the colleges of Kinesiology, Nursing, Music, Art, Architecture, Pharmacy and Education. Let us face it, those colleges do not enroll many students who intend on one day enrolling into Law school or Medical school. Also, admittedly, Duke’s student body is, on average, slightly stronger than Michigan’s. </p>
<p>However, that does not make Duke better than Michigan. When you look at placement rates, Michigan is as effective as Duke at placing qualified students into elite graduate programs, including roughly 200 students into its own Law, Medical and MBA programs annually. Graduate school adcoms do not differentiate between Duke and Michigan.</p>
<p>As for fellowship production, I find it convenient that you point out the ones that only elect 20-30 students nationally each year. You are bragging about what? 2 students annually…out of 1,500 graduates! So Michigan averages 1 as opposed to Duke’s 2. WOW!!! LOL! You do realize that Rhodes scholarships are not very telling. Oklahoma (26) and Kansas (25) have produced more Rhodes scholars than Penn (19) or Northwestern (15). And didn’t UNC and UVA each produce more Rhodes scholars than Duke? The Rhodes scholarship is great, but it really isn’t telling. Why not include Fullbright winners? Michigan has produced 344 winners since 1993, compared to Duke’s 238. </p>
<p>And lesdiablesbleus, your friends who attend Michigan know its worth, they just don’t feel the need to brag about it. That is why I chose Michigan over Duke and other top private universities where students with dellusions of grandeur outnumber those that are down to earth. There are few people of note in this World would differentiate between Michigan and other top 20 universities (with the exception of HYPSM).</p>
<p>I put lesdiablesbleus on ignore months ago. I only respond to his posts through others. I wish we could all just ignore him already. Unfortunately, new CC members might actually believe the tripe that he delivers about Michigan so I guess we can’t.</p>
<p>tenisghs and Alexandre- Yes thank you for the examples of schools over 25k. I live in New England. I am aware. Rutgers is a decent school. MAryland and Penn State better. My point was that most of my community will say that any school over 15k is HUGE…that is just the mentality here. They are more geared toward the small LAC’s like Williams, Amherst, Bowdin etc…</p>
<p>This guy likes bearcats?!? NO ONE likes bearcats! You like perhaps one of the harshest Michigan critics (and potentially one of the most misguided). Now that you mention it, I can certainly see how you two would click: neither is a fan of making a cogent argument.</p>
<p>
Are you stupid? The last time I checked, you were the idiot who kept bringing up the “lower ivies” and some private school and comparing them with michigan. Whether michigan is on par or not, I dont give a ■■■, but you kept coming back to trash it. Why?</p>
<p>
Even if you remove the students enrolled in the colleges of Kinesiology, Nursing, Music, Art, Architecture, Pharmacy, Engineering and Education at Michigan, the university would still have twice the undergraduate student population as Duke. You can compare the College of Literature, Science and the Arts at Michigan directly in fact and Duke still comes out way on top.</p>
<p>Duke’s student body is SIGNIFICANTLY stronger than Michigan’s.</p>
<p>According to College Board,</p>
<pre><code> DUKE MICHIGAN
</code></pre>
<p>SAT CR: 660-750 SAT CR: 590-690
SAT M: 680-780 SAT M: 640-740
SAT W: 660-760 SAT W: 600-700
ACT: 30-34 composite ACT: 27-31 composite</p>
<p>A difference of 1 ACT composite point of like 50 SAT composite points may be called a “slight” difference but a difference of 3 ACT composite points and like 150 SAT composite points is “significant”.</p>
<p>
This is completely false from what I’ve observed. Only at UM’s law, medical and business schools are its own undergrads more represented than Duke undergrads. Duke wins out by a wide margin at every other professional school with regards to medicine, law and business.</p>
<p>UVA LAW CLASS OF 2011
[Class</a> of 2011 Profile](<a href=“http://www.law.virginia.edu/html/prospectives/class11.htm]Class”>http://www.law.virginia.edu/html/prospectives/class11.htm)
Duke: 13
Michigan: 5</p>
<p>HARVARD LAW CLASS OF 2009
[HLS</a> : Undergraduate Schools Represented in 2006-2007](<a href=“http://web.archive.org/web/20070514115552/http://www.law.harvard.edu/admissions/jd/colleges.php]HLS”>http://web.archive.org/web/20070514115552/http://www.law.harvard.edu/admissions/jd/colleges.php)
Duke: 41
Michigan: 23</p>
<p>
Alexandre, it’s not that Michigan lags in scholarship production this year, the problem is that UM CONSISTENTLY under performs in comparison the schools you wrongfully claim are its peers. The fact that UofM has produced less fellowship winners than Duke in basically every category means that it has never been able to enroll the truly top scholars in the country at any time AND that the university doesn’t offer the resources for the students to successfully pursue these opportunities which is worse in my opinion.</p>
<p>Do you have a citation to back up your Fullbright data? I would like to see it.</p>
<p>
Kids at a lot of elite schools are no more stuck up than students at Michigan. In fact, my friends at Michigan often discredit and poke fun at MSU, OSU, Minnesota, <em>insert Big 10 public</em> all the time, but I don’t mind it because I know that Michigan is a much better school. However, none of them have ever compared Michigan to an Ivy and if they did, many of their coworkers and friends like myself would call them out on it as we should.</p>
<p>
My parents went to Ohio State.</p>
<p>^^Is he saying something? :-)</p>
<p>His parents went to OSU – now it makes sense.</p>
<p>I can totally understand people like" lesdia…whatever his name is "'s concern. He just wants to put down Michigan to show his superiority. People do the same with Cal and other elite public schools when they compare it to Ivies. People call Cal a diploma factory which is absurd considering the number of scholars it produces. In my opinion, Michigan has over a million friends but in the process of making those million friends it has made a dozen enemies like the ****** I’ve mentioned before. Treat this as one getting a proper sample, where not everyone can like something. </p>
<p>Michigan is competent with the best in the World and I don’t care what people think. I have a dozen stories about people with substandard scores getting into the best universities. Too name a few, a kid from my high school did drugs, alcohol, had a 1920 on his SAT(sub-par for any top school), 3.2 GPA but he knew a couple of important people and so he got into Harvard , Duke and Stanford!. Everyone in my high school was ****ed that he got in, since he had absolutely no legitimate credentials apart from a good Recommendations. </p>
<p>Another was a kid, who was only concerned about how he was going to get lucky, absolute pervert and a total ******. He had a 3.1 GPA but had legacy at Stanford and he got in. </p>
<p>Another was a kid who was hated by everyone, he was cocky and arrogant. But he ended up getting into Johns Hopkins and Brown with a 1870 SAT. That’s right 1870 into those places.</p>
<p>Another kid, had a 3.0 GPA with a 1950 SAT. But again he had Recommendation letters from senators whom his father knew. He got into MIT for godsake !</p>
<p>Like I said I can go on and on and on…about people like those I’ve mentioned.</p>
<p>So you mean to say that MIT , Stanford, JHU and you’re prophesized elite privates admit students such as those I’ve mentioned. All schools in the top tier offer a similar education.</p>
<p>I’m a math and statistics major here in the honors program and my honors Math class is by far on par with the Math 55 class at Harvard or a Chicago or MIT. But unlike the schools I’ve mentioned, we aren’t nerds we can talk about virtually anything and not merely academics. I can talk to a frat-boy from Arizona state or a nobel laureate from any university. Now that’s the Michigan Difference! In your face *****</p>