<p>I am new to CC and appreciate all your responses and suggestions. Many tx.</p>
<p>I take major issues with surveys about drinking at colleges - both anecdotally because most people I know vastly understate the amount they drink, and statistically since controlled studies have found that most college students have NO IDEA of how much they're drinking, especially with regard to shots (where people have major trouble guessing how much different sizes/shapes of shot glasses all hold) and mixed drinks. Further, I'd wager that most students don't even know what the medical definition of a drink is - many people count a half and half jack and coke (which could have 8+ medical/statistical drinks in it) as 1 drink.</p>
<p>I'd also say the thursday night test isn't a great one - most colleges I know of have thursday night parties. It is almost universal at this point - and the hard partying colleges (i.e. ASU, FSU) will have parties or active/full bars 7 days a week. </p>
<p>Not drinking is socially fine for girls (because they're much more likely to be exploited if they're stumbling around drunk than guys are), but is more questionable for guys. Honestly, I don't even know why you'd want to go to a party if you weren't going to drink - the focus of most parties I've seen is drinking, and most everyone there will be either drinking, drunk or both. Having said that, the key thing to remember for nondrinkers is to not look down at drinkers just because they drink. That is the #1 reason that drinkers will dislike a nondrinker - most nondrinkers think they are better than those who imbibe solely because they don't drink. They think of drinking as some horrible mark against a person. Nondrinkers that view drinking simply as an activity that they don't participate in and otherwise don't care about it tend to be fine socially.</p>
<p>I'll conclude by saying that at any reasonably sized school there is almost assuredly a group of people who don't drink/use drugs who someone who wants to stay sober can hang out with.</p>
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That's simply not binge drinking, and only a very sloppy researcher would claim that it is.
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<p>Take it up with the funded professional researchers in the alcohol abuse field. It's their definition and it correlates with increased drinking-related problems.</p>
<p>Having said that, it really doesn't matter what the standard is. What matters is that a consistent standard is used to survey drinking rates at colleges across the country. As long as a consistent measure is used, a consumer can comparison shop.</p>
<p>There was no rationale behind setting the binge drinking standard at 5 and 4 drinks - they are entirely arbitrary numbers. Further, what constitutes one "event" is a very subjective thing - someone who has 5 drinks during a 1 hour period is very different than someone who has 5 drinks over a 11 PM - 4 AM period.</p>
<p>ID, I believe the problem is that there is NO standard for binge drinking. the 5 and 4 numbers were from one website that said there is no definition, but that is one method. Another method is if you drink 3 drinks in 1 hour then you are a binge drinker. Therefore, its not standard between colleges, and a worthless statistic - as there is no basis for comparison.</p>
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the 5 and 4 numbers were from one website
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<p>Again, those are standard measures of heavy epidsodic drinking in alcohol abuse survey research. The Harvard School of Public Health surveys, which have popularized the measure, did not come up with the definition. It's an accepted industry-standard. It has nothing to do with "a website".</p>
<p>Again, virtually every survey instrument administered by colleges to their students, across the country, uses the 5-drink standard. The only difference is that some of the surveys add the 4-drink qualifier for women. Others just stick with 5 for both sexes.</p>
<p>It is a universal measure on college surveys and, if you can get the data for a school, you know whether a school has average, above-average, or below-average heavy episodic drinking percentages relative to other colleges, using a consistent measure.</p>
<p>You guys are missing the point. It's not about whether you agree with the measure. Just like it's not about whether you agree there are 5280 feet in a mile. Those are the accepted measures.</p>
<p>I'm not disputing the measure; I'm disputing the data collection methods. Most people (and this is a proven fact, at least for college students) have NO IDEA of how much they are drinking, are poor judges of a container's volume (this I know personally, not just from reading studies; people always think that tall/thin shot glasses are MUCH bigger than short and squat ones, even if they have the same capacity), and in my personal opinion most people underrepresent the number of drinks they put on surveys.</p>
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<p>Definitely NOT TRUE. In an adult social context or business context it certainly can be helpful to be holding a drink in your hand -- but it certainly doesn't have to be alcoholic. You can always order a plain soda or a "virgin" anything. </p>
<p>That is the kind of rationale that people with alcoholic tendencies tend to offer up. First they "have to" accept the drink because to turn it down would offend their host, then they "have to" have another because their host offered a second drink -- and pretty soon they are snockered and making a total fool of themselves in public, all because they decided that drinking was important to ingratiate themselves to their business contexts.</p>
<p>My long-ago experience in college probably shouldn't be extrapolated to today's world, but perhaps human nature never really changes. In that far-off time, drinking was legal at 18; pot smoking, of course, was not. It was nevertheless rampant on my campus, as were other forms of illegal drug use, particularly downers and hallucinogenics.</p>
<p>As it happens, I am one of the very, very few 50 y/o former college students in America who never toked up or, indeed, experimented with any kind of drug. No moral reasons at all - I was simply terrified of my parents finding out, following my inevitable arrest as I took that first joint, since the campus police or perhaps representatives from ATF or the FBI were certain to break in at that very moment. (I really was an unbelievable geek.)</p>
<p>Had I decided to socialize only with non-smokers, I'd have had exactly 2 friends on campus. Had I been ostracized for my refusal to join right in, same result. Instead, I had many dear friends, some of whom shared a joint once a week and some of whom needed one to get out of bed in the morning. There might have been an awkward moment or two when a joint was passed around the conversational circle and I let it pass me by, but only with first-time acquaintances. I was comfortable enough sitting in a room with stoned people as we listened to music, gossiped, and debated philosophical issues, which in my day was "partying." (It wasn't too difficult to win an argument with those folks :)) Though drinking was legal, it wasn't free, so I never really did much of that, either.</p>
<p>Sorry to be so slow in getting to the point, which I think is this - you can indeed abstain and still be social with non-abstainers. When it gets really crazy, as when kids are getting sick/trashing rooms/otherwise disturbing the peace, you at least will not be too impaired to leave.</p>
<p>The binge drinking definition has been beaten to death on other threads. Suffice it say that I disagree with your assertion that this definition of binge drinking has been widely accepted in the field and is not controversial among alcohol abuse experts. </p>
<p>Apart from the definition, I agree that statistics indicating how often students drink, and how much they drink at a time is a helpful indicator of the "feel" of a campus. I just wish that the "best available statistical measure" was a lot better. </p>
<p>Moving on to Tropical's ramblings: Calmom is absolutely right. I've been in the corporate world for 20+ years now, and the only people that I've come across as having the attitude that you have to drink in order to fit in are those who, well, don't fit in and end up embarassing themselves. They are the ones who don't get the big promotion, and honestly don't understand why.</p>
<p>I am sure I am repeating the posts of many others here but I will add my 2 cents.</p>
<p>All colleges have a drinking/drug scene if a student wants to find it. But all colleges have oodles of activities which do not involve drinking/drugs. If a student wants to avoid drinking/drugs he merely needs to choose his activities and friend appropriately.</p>
<p>HOWEVER, realize that once in college your student may eventually wish to begin drinking socially. There is absolutely nothing wrong with this as long as he drinks responsibly. A glass of wine during a meal is a wonderful thing. A couple of beers nursed through a nite long party is okay unless it is that horrible MichUltra!!! Our son's NY Eve party had a couple bottles of "champagne" for a New Years toast. Thats okay by me.</p>
<p>These practices are far different than binge drinking and straight shots of hard alcohol and your son must be informed of the difference. Drinking and driving(even if you "feel ok") or even being in the same care with one driving, a big no-no. Illegal drugs of any kind-run away as fast as you can. You do not want to face the horrible consequences that may possibly befall you for merely being in their presence.</p>
<p>frazzled, I don't get it -- I understand how one can easily stay stone cold sober sipping orange juice from a cocktail glass in a room full of drunken revelers... but how do you manage stay straight in a room saturated with marijuana smoke? Did you wear a gas mask or something?</p>
<p>Sorry, I believe that you did refrain from actually whiffing the stuff, but I'm just don't know how you managed to give up breathing. I have enough problems with second-hand smoke from tobacco. I'm thinking that if you were in a room full of pot smokers and you found yourself having a good time despite your refusal to touch the joint being passed around, it is possible that you did inhale after all. ;)</p>
<p>I would add--from the perspective of a third-year college parent--that you certainly don't have to drink to fit in on campus these days. Not at all. Even if you're a jock. I would also echo Iderochi's comment, that the "binge drinking" meme is an unfortunate joke, grasped upon by people who spend too much time watching Katie Couric, et al. Just because Henry Wechsler is at "Harvard" doesn't mean you have to buy into his amateurish poll methodology, or his ridiculous "4-5 drink event" nonsense, which is what everyone now uses--unfortunately and inexplicably. Here's a terrific counter argument by a non-Harvard professor. <a href="http://www.alcoholfacts.org/Wechsler.html%5B/url%5D">http://www.alcoholfacts.org/Wechsler.html</a></p>
<p>as a college student (sophomore, UMD college park), i would have to say that NO, YOU DO NOT HAVE TO DRINK TO FIT IN! as i'm sure most of you know, UMD was ranked as 20th-ish on the list of top party schools. obviously, there are many avenues a student can take in college. some of these (such as greek life) present more opportunities for drinking than others (such as gymkana, which requires its members to stay substance-free). i personally am a member of a sorority, and although i do occasionally drink alcohol, i have sisters that do not. i have many friends, both greek and non-greek, who have never touched a drop of alcohol, and are perfectly social, normal college students.</p>
<p>as a shameless plug for my own university....marylandmother, if you haven't already, please check out UMD! we have an amazing and competitive music program with plenty of performance and study opportunities, a brand-new 17 acre performing arts center, and a terrific marching band (of which i was a member my freshman year). check it out :)</p>
<p>also, parents keep in mind that you may not know if your S or D ACTUALLY drinks or not...I remember quite a few conversations with my mom where I would criticize alcohol for being stupid and pointless, but at the same time I drank whenever I was in social situations, and often used various drugs as well. Not to say that your kids are all like me, but just something to keep in mind.</p>
<p>Send him to BYU.</p>
<p>Note that the expert Driver cites, "David J. Hansen, Ph.D." receives funding from the Distilled Spirits Council of the United States, Inc.</p>
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if you were in a room full of pot smokers and you found yourself having a good time despite your refusal to touch the joint being passed around, it is possible that you did inhale after all.
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Well, I must have inhaled - though I never thought I was having as good a time as everyone else in the room. This is just how much of a geek I continue to be - I never knew you could get high from secondhand pot smoke! Having grown up with chain (tobacco) smokers, the miasma of smoke once I got to college wasn't bothersome, or even noticeable, at the time. (I seem to be one of those people who doesn't metabolize drugs very well. Oxycontin after dental surgery, even morphine to bring my blood pressure down after childbirth - never felt much of anything! Go figure.)</p>
<p>I continue to believe, though, that partiers and nonpartiers can socialize together happily enough at school. Good thing, too, because it would be very hard to find a college where most students don't - at least occasionally - drink.</p>
<p>^^I doubt your doses of oxy or morphine were enough to give anyone a buzz, as recreational doses are generally at least 2x as much as medicinal doses.</p>
<p>But I do agree with you that partiers can definitely get along well with sober people, but there is always a connection taht partiers have with each other that can be hard for sober people to get in on. Depends on the peoples personalities, but it is one less thing in common at the very least. If your kids or yourselves TRULY cannot stand the party atmosphere, princetonreview ranks the "stone cold sober" schools, I don't know how accurate it is but the list is here: <a href="http://princetonreview.com/college/research/rankings/rankingDetails.asp?categoryID=3&topicID=27%5B/url%5D">http://princetonreview.com/college/research/rankings/rankingDetails.asp?categoryID=3&topicID=27</a></p>
<p>look, you can't do business without drinking. you really can't.</p>