<p>goldenboy, let me tell you what i have seen in California, people who got in Berkeley seldom consider Duke or Northwestern or even Cornell, since they pay in-state tuition, unless there is a better package (tuition or scholarship) or BS/MD programs. As far as undergraduate focus i agree what you said. But undergraduate prestige, i would say Duke=Cornell=Northwestern=Berkeley=Rice. </p>
<p>If you are from new England, you will say Cornell is better; if you are from South, you will say Rice is better; if you are from Midwest, you say Northwestern is better; and if you are from west, you say Berkeley is better. Have you ever heard people said, for those who can’t get in Ivy then go to Duke? </p>
<p>For premed, Rice and Duke may have its edge over its peers (i would recommend Brown as top in the nation for premed though, because its open curriculum). If you say Engineering and Science, i would recommend Berkeley. For Agriculture and Hotel management, i would say Cornell. Each school has its own uniqueness and strength.</p>
<p>I disagree with FloridaDad that Berkeley is above Cornell at the undergraduate level. In its prime, Berkeley could hold its own with any of the Ivy Leagues, but thanks to the idiot actor-turned-Governor, our whole educational system is basically screwed. It’s taking people 5 or 6 year now to graduate instead of 4. There’s even one guy at Berkeley in his TENTH year on a Bachelor’s degree.</p>
<p>There’s just too little undergraduate focus there now due to the budget cuts. And it’s 3.2% less selective than Cornell, but that number is misleading. On the UC applications, you can add schools just by clicking on them since the application is exactly the same. A lot of UC Santa Barbara and UC Irvine level people apply to Berkeley even though it is unrealistic. </p>
<p>Berkeley largely maintains its reputation through its stellar graduate programs, in which it is overall second only to Harvard. It is also arguably the second most recognized school in the world. But as an undergraduate institution, it’s good but not great.</p>
Yeah right, keep on dreaming. California is the most represented state in Duke’s student body and you can assume that all of those Californians at Duke turned town both Berkeley and UCLA senior year of high school.</p>
<p>[Admission:</a> Impossible? by Robert J. Bliwise - March/April 2012](<a href=“Duke Mag”>Duke Mag)</p>
<p>One big contributor to the application surge at Duke is California, now the most-represented state in the current freshman class, with 191 students. Some of the California-based interest, in Guttentags view, has to do with Californias budget woes and the consequent decline in state support for the University of California system: Among other impacts, the cutbacks mean larger class sizes, fewer offerings, and higher tuition. (Guttentag earned his undergraduate degree from UC-Santa Barbara.)</p>
<p>Martin Walsh, a counselor at the Harker School in San Jose who formerly worked in admissions at Stanford University, points to one local indication of Dukes popularity: In 2008, Harker, which draws many first-generation American children of Silicon Valley workers, produced eight applications for Duke. The number for last falls freshman class was fifty-sevenabout one-third of the graduating class. Fifteen were admitted to Duke and three attended.</p>
<p>Duke wins 2/3 of the cross admit battles between Berkeley and UCLA in California despite these two public schools being much cheaper for California residents.</p>
<p>
The only Ivies that Duke clearly loses to are HYP. According to the same article,
[Admission:</a> Impossible? by Robert J. Bliwise - March/April 2012](<a href=“Duke Mag”>Duke Mag) UC-Berkeley, about a forty-five minute drive from Harker, exerts a significant pull; despite its deepening California connection, Duke often loses out to Stanford University, along with Harvard, Yale, and Princeton. It does well against Cornell, Dartmouth, Columbia, Brown, and Georgetown. Guttentag notes that a higher percentage of Duke applicants now than in the past are looking at Stanford and MIT along with the Ivies, particularly the familiar HYP threesome. Dukes yield rate the rate at which accepted students attend Dukehas remained fairly steady, meaning, he says, that we are holding our own against tougher and tougher competition.</p>
<p>
Duke is slightly better regarded than Cornell and clearly a step up from these other schools. How many North Carolinians attend UC Berkeley and how many Californians go to Duke? That should answer your question right there.</p>
<p>golden boy, keep pumping your Duke ego, it won’t help much. Let me say once again, people who admitted to Berkeley won’t select Duke, unless there is a better package. Do you know recently there are a lot of oos kids who applied Berkeley. Duke is a fine school, but to say it is better than Ivies is a joke and unhealthy…, people can’t get in Ivies so choose Duke as a backup, wake up golden boy.</p>
<p>Which school – Duke or Cornell – is “slightly higher” depends on who you’re talking to, and on what metrics you are referring to – and there are plenty to look at which indicate the reverse is true of your claim. Cornell may be a bit more than “slightly higher” by people and groups in the know.</p>
<p>In USNWR’s significant category of peer assessment, which relates heavily to a school’s prestige, Cornell has consistently remained ahead of Duke. Additionally, in the major rankings of world universities Cornell stands higher than Duke.</p>
<p>Here’s another tidbit from Times Higher Education regarding collegiate reputation, where Cornell stands at 16th in the world, while Duke sits at 33rd:</p>
<p>This is why this whole conversation is inane. Duke vs. Cornell vs. Berkeley vs. Brown. The difference in prestige at the undergrad level is so negligible that it’s not worth arguing.</p>
<p>Norcalguy, countering inane claims against your college is not inane, lest prospective students and their parents remain subject to mistaken impressions. On a completely unbiased board what you contend would be valid, but this board does not fit that bill.</p>
<p>I don’t know how someone can say that Duke is more highly regarded than Cornell IMHO. That link to Top Universities by Reputation surely has some real questionable schools up there. I will have to go back and read the guidelines.</p>
<p>^ See post #125 – there you can can reference many knowledgeable people and groups who clearly disagree with your opinion; for them Cornell is held in higher regard. Your bias seems to give you a pretty myopic view. In an unbiased world Norcalguy is correct, these are peer schools and different students will find one or the other a best fit.</p>
<p>Thanks Colm. I try to be honest in my opinions. I tried to give another opinion in this post but was basically attacked. Yes, it was an opinion but I didn’t deserve to be attacked like that. I wasn’t offensive I basically said that I know people who turned down Cornell for Michigan, Tufts and the like (which is fact). Now I don’t know the reasons for that but it is a known fact to me. I get it. This is a Cornell forum so there will be some bias and defensiveness, but there was really no need for the attacks (especially from newly fresh 2016 incoming freshman who have never stepped foot on the Big Red campus!) I don’t think this helps Cornell…Thanks again.</p>
<p>^ There will always be outliers, and idiosyncratic rationales, for school choice. These reasons can include cost, strong individual programs, unfounded pre-judgement, proximity to significant others, preferred locale, et cetera.</p>
<p>Colm, I agree. For instance, if someone is interested in International Affairs and studying abroad, Tufts would seem like a logical choice because of its programs and fine education. Some defensive poster said Tufts is not in the top ten of anything… I believe that if you Google top abroad programs, Tufts is in the Top Ten (as well as in the top 20 for happiest students). But, I digress… Colm, I appreciate your voice of reason. Thanks again.</p>
<p>If I had a choice between Tufts and Cornell – even for International Affairs and studying abroad – I’d choose Cornell (its overseas programs are impressive). The wide array of strong adjacent academic programs at Cornell would also help sway my choice. Plus, for me a nested college town like Ithaca would be preferable to a dense urban locale (which I might opt for when choosing a grad school).</p>
<p>OMG. It is so sickiening to read that Cornell really isn’t as good as whatcha macallit college over and over. </p>
<p>Cornell is an Ivy league school. Therefore it has a certain reputation. Are there schools as good? Yes, of course. But the differences between Cornell and another Ivy and schools like Duke, etc. is very small.</p>
<p>So get over it guys. Once you graduate, it doesn’t matter. And all the top schools open up opportunities for jobs and graduate schools.</p>
<p>It does not, in the adult world, make you superior to have graduated from Duke, Chicago, UCLA, Brown or Cornell, etc.</p>
<p>I’ve tried to stop participating in such futile discussions since it is unhealthy, but I’ll play this time.</p>
<p>There is no question that we get blown out of the water by Princeton and Yale. It’s simply a question of “how much?” Harvard also destroys us in connections and network strength, but I’d say the quality of education is more or less the same.</p>
<p>As for Cornell vs. Duke, it probably comes down to major and feel. I’d rather be in the NorthEast than in the South. Duke may be better represented for banking, but I don’t think it’s really significant enough. Cornell is a target as well. That Parchment website posted earlier seems kind of questionable. 77-23 crossadmit win for Duke? That just doesn’t sound right.</p>
<p>What is really confusing to me is the perception of Columbia against Cornell. Most people consider Columbia MUCH more prestigious and the superior school. Why? The two are more or less comparable as research powerhouses and in terms of educational quality. The main difference is selectivity. Just because it is more selective doesn’t really make it the better school.</p>